Post-Game Talk: Gilligan's Isles @ Capitals - 1:08pm EST 2019

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kicksavedave

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He also made some saves nobody would have blamed him for letting in. Their 1st and 3rd goals were a result of awful, sloppy plays, which is becoming our new norm.

It is no coincidence we are now 2-5 against the Islanders, Blue Jackets, and Carolina combined. Teams that make a living on opponent sloppiness. The fact that the Caps didn't blow Columbus out of the water in their 3rd game was worrisome to me, they should have had plenty of incentive.

We are going to hold on to Blaine freaking Forsythe to our demise, btw.

I've said this a few times in the past, but the mark of a good goalie is not how many spectacular saves he makes, but how many softies he doesn't let in. What makes the all time greats is their consistently solid performance where they only get beat by the shots that are unstoppable, and they rarely if ever give up the softies that had no business going in.

In general, teams are going to earn 1 or 2 goals a game. If you give them 1 or 2 more freebies, you are going to lose a lot. If you hold them to only the ones they earn, you're going to win a lot. Right now Holtby is giving out free goals like the old couple at Halloween gives out candy... "here, everyone gets two... ok, well have three, its ok"

When a goalie makes three spectacular saves and gives up three softies, you're going to lose that game most of the time. That's where we are right now.
 

txpd

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I honestly think Leipsic could be just as effect in Hagelin’s PK role.

Well....Hagelin is 1st among forwards and 2nd on the team in average SHTOI. Lepsic has not taken a single short handed shift all season. This is after Hagelin missed a boat load of games to injury and being pinned on LTIR and when there was a huge hole to fill on the pk. The coaches didn't think he could be used for one shift.

You should reconsider your opinion
 

kicksavedave

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Well....Hagelin is 1st among forwards and 2nd on the team in average SHTOI. Lepsic has not taken a single short handed shift all season. This is after Hagelin missed a boat load of games to injury and being pinned on LTIR and when there was a huge hole to fill on the pk. The coaches didn't think he could be used for one shift.

You should reconsider your opinion

These facts are damning, but why are they? Why hasn't Leipsic taken a single shift on the PK? He's the right type of player, high energy, great short burst skating. The obvious answer is Rierden doesn't trust him to PK, but why not? Has he even tried him there, in practice? Did he get PK shifts in pre season? Has he PK'd in his previous stops? Has TR not even thought about it? Just curious because Ovie's Neighbor's post was speculation, but its valid speculation.
 

Capsman

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I've said this a few times in the past, but the mark of a good goalie is not how many spectacular saves he makes, but how many softies he doesn't let in. What makes the all time greats is their consistently solid performance where they only get beat by the shots that are unstoppable, and they rarely if ever give up the softies that had no business going in.

In general, teams are going to earn 1 or 2 goals a game. If you give them 1 or 2 more freebies, you are going to lose a lot. If you hold them to only the ones they earn, you're going to win a lot. Right now Holtby is giving out free goals like the old couple at Halloween gives out candy... "here, everyone gets two... ok, well have three, its ok"

When a goalie makes three spectacular saves and gives up three softies, you're going to lose that game most of the time. That's where we are right now.
I thought the only egregiously bad goal was the 3rd. I guess my point is that Holtby's play is going to distract (to us, hopefully not to the team) from this issue of turning the puck over in our zone or at our blue line.
 

kicksavedave

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I thought the only egregiously bad goal was the 3rd. I guess my point is that Holtby's play is going to distract (to us, hopefully not to the team) from this issue of turning the puck over in our zone or at our blue line.

The first goal was terrible form, not square to anything at all, not in butterfly, gave himself no chance to handle a deflection. The second one was an "eyes closed" glove whiff, where Holtby made no effort to see around the screen. The third one was just a flat whiff, way too far out for that to have gone in like that. The fourth one wasn't great form but a top corner snipe, could have stopped it but not entirely on him.

Its not distracting from the other issues, but the other issues are team wide, and the result of the ebb and flow of a season, but the team is playing well enough to win more of these games if the goalie is just adequate. There is no easy simple fix to the bad team defense, but there is an easy fix to the bad goaltending.
 
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Carlzner

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They really need to upgrade Jensen. The only UFA to be that's enticing is Hamonic but I don't like his offensive/puck moving skills much.
 

txpd

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These facts are damning, but why are they? Why hasn't Leipsic taken a single shift on the PK? He's the right type of player, high energy, great short burst skating. The obvious answer is Rierden doesn't trust him to PK, but why not? Has he even tried him there, in practice? Did he get PK shifts in pre season? Has he PK'd in his previous stops? Has TR not even thought about it? Just curious because Ovie's Neighbor's post was speculation, but its valid speculation.

Leipsic did not take a single shift on the pk with the LA Kings in 45 games last season. In 44 games with Vegas he did not take a single shift on the pk.

Why? Its only a guess but the skills you need to pk other than speed are skills he doesn't have and a by a significant margin.

Meanwhile Hagelin has a career resume as a top quality penalty killer on good teams. Again this is just speculation but it might be that suggesting Leipsic could do Hagelin's job is an insult of biblical proportions.
 
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um

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Hagelin is a great PKer and that’s something the Caps need for sure... he just doesn’t belong on any third line. He’s a 4th line specialist, like Beagle was.
 
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txpd

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It's a shame since Jensen's game is exactly what we need for 2RD... he's got the tools but no toolbox

Upgrading him will cost them another roster player to the salary cap. Jensen is a $2.4m player with the skill set they need. They need to coach him up. He played nearly 20 mins today. 3rd on the D. He was on for 3 goals for and no goals against. He skated with Orlov most of the game.

That is the player they want right there
 
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txpd

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Hagelin is a great PKer and that’s something the Caps need for sure... he just doesn’t belong on any third line. He’s a 4th line specialist, like Beagle was.

Except that like Beagle he is not a tradition 4th line player. He takes primary defensive assignments. Often with Beagle the 3rd line got the 4th line minutes. We whined about that a lot because it would mean Burakovsky or Vrana would play under 10 mins and Beagle would be up around 14.

The Caps are going to use Eller and Hagelin for jobs they would not remotely trust to Dowd and Hathaway. Putting Hagelin on the 4th line just isn't going to happen.
 

Lindemann

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If Holtby gets his head out of his ass and doesn’t overshoot his position every time the puck moves, we win this game

start Sammy for the next 2 games
 
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Ovie's Neighbor

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It's a shame since Jensen's game is exactly what we need for 2RD... he's got the tools but no toolbox
He doesn’t have the decision making ability to play against the best teams/heavy forecheckers. I do not see how he is any better than Djoos. I didn’t hate the trade but I never understood the super early extension. I guess they thought they were getting in early instead of overpaying if he performed well but he and Siegenthaler are a weakness back there.
 

crab

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Hagelin is a great PKer and that’s something the Caps need for sure... he just doesn’t belong on any third line. He’s a 4th line specialist, like Beagle was.

Exactly. He is an overpaid fourth liner.

I could see Panik turning the corner but Hagelin is what he is and the Capitals overpaid.

With that said, at least the underperforming Caps players compared to their contract (Hagelin, Panik, Jensen) are not their top paid stars. I guess an argument could be made about Holtby though at this point.
 
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Ginger Papa

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Crummy loss to close out the year to a club that I honestly find as entertaining as watching paint dry.

Fortunately your club has almost 1/2 the season left to continue tinkering with the lineup and cycling in the AHL’rs as injuries/suspensions/rest days arise.

Wonderful problems to have (as I’ve mentioned before).

As 2019 comes to a close I want to thank you for being so welcoming to me and I am very grateful for finding so many new friends here on this Board.

All the best in 2020!
 
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um

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Exactly. He is an overpaid fourth liner.

I could see Panik turning the corner but Hagelin is what he is and the Capitals overpaid.

With that said, at least the underperforming Caps players compared to their contract (Hagelin, Panik, Jensen) are not their top paid stars. I guess an argument could be made about Holtby though at this point.

I agree... Hagelin should be in the 1.5-2.0 price range.
 
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um

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Except that like Beagle he is not a tradition 4th line player. He takes primary defensive assignments. Often with Beagle the 3rd line got the 4th line minutes. We whined about that a lot because it would mean Burakovsky or Vrana would play under 10 mins and Beagle would be up around 14.

The Caps are going to use Eller and Hagelin for jobs they would not remotely trust to Dowd and Hathaway. Putting Hagelin on the 4th line just isn't going to happen.

I never said that he should be put on the 4th line... my issue is that all of Hagelin/Hathaway/Leipsic/Dowd/Boyd/Panik (so far) are forth liners.

We have offensive depth problems and I don't expect Hagelin to solve them. His days off reliable offense and fore checking are gone.
 

SherVaughn30

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The first goal was terrible form, not square to anything at all, not in butterfly, gave himself no chance to handle a deflection. The second one was an "eyes closed" glove whiff, where Holtby made no effort to see around the screen. The third one was just a flat whiff, way too far out for that to have gone in like that. The fourth one wasn't great form but a top corner snipe, could have stopped it but not entirely on him.

Its not distracting from the other issues, but the other issues are team wide, and the result of the ebb and flow of a season, but the team is playing well enough to win more of these games if the goalie is just adequate. There is no easy simple fix to the bad team defense, but there is an easy fix to the bad goaltending.
Something I have noticed about Holtby when his game is really off. He doesn't play percentage chances as well as most NHL goalies do now a days due to his hybrid technique.

On the 1st goal he had his left post covered, a double screen developed(1 Isles player/Holtby's d-man) in front of him. The puck was on Holtby's left side of the goal with a potential shot/pass with a deflection coming towards the net. Holtby should have played the percentage that the puck was somehow gonna come to the net, middle to far right post. He did nothing of the sort, somehow getting bumped by his own player and the puck was just redirected into the middle of the net as Holtby looked awkwardly twisted.

On the 2nd goal Brock Nelson came down his right wing and cut inward firing off a left-handed shot. Holtby was caught being screened by Orlov, while leaving the near-side post open. Boom he gets beat glove-side top corner on the left post that he should have had the angle on. You play the percentages in which case you take away that near-side post so the shooter has to beat you with a shot towards the far post(Holtby's stick-side).

On the 3rd goal Holtby is plenty far out enough, but his angling is off. That was a left-handed shot that should have been a simple right leg kick save/stick aside save.

On the 4th goal Holtby using the Reverse VH against his right post was a mistake. He had the paddle down in the wrong position. He gave the shooter too much room top corner short-side. Once Holtby had already committed himself to covering the lower portion of the post, he set himself up to being beat top corner. The shooter could have beat him top corner near-side, middle or far corner. It was just very poor technique for the situation.
 

AussieCapsFan

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I wont comment on Panik. Hagelin was brought in to improve an awful PK. Ranked 24th last season. Its about the best in the league now. Hagelin brings a lot.

He sure does. I find the criticism of Hagelin bizarre. Every single game he has multiple fore-checks that create opportunities, and fantastic back checks that prevent goal scoring opportunities. As I've said many times, I don't think there is
anybody on the team who gives more effort game in and game out.

People saying he brings nothing offensively? Guess what, you're right! Cos it's not his job!
 

SherVaughn30

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Exactly. He is an overpaid fourth liner.

I could see Panik turning the corner but Hagelin is what he is and the Capitals overpaid.

With that said, at least the underperforming Caps players compared to their contract (Hagelin, Panik, Jensen) are not their top paid stars. I guess an argument could be made about Holtby though at this point.
Hagelin is far more earning his salary than Panik. The issue I see with Panik he's thinking too much and not being patient when he possesses the puck. Panik still looks uncomfortable on the ice.
 
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txpd

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I never said that he should be put on the 4th line... my issue is that all of Hagelin/Hathaway/Leipsic/Dowd/Boyd/Panik (so far) are forth liners.

We have offensive depth problems and I don't expect Hagelin to solve them. His days off reliable offense and fore checking are gone.

Others have, which who I was referring to. The Caps have primary offensive problems right now. Ov is off his pace. Vrana is invisible. All those other guys, I get. Hagelin is different.
 
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