Gilbert Brule vs Alex Bourret

[leafaholix*]

Who is to say Brule is the best player available? What is Lou Lams feels Johnson or Latendresse is a better prospect then Brule....does that make them an idiot for passing on him? I am sure as hell positive you have not seen everything all these players can do, good scouts have. You have no right to call anyone an idiot who thinks a certain player is a BPA then Brule.

Brule is comparable to Sidney Crosby, although he'd lose 99.9% of the time, but unless Jack Johnson is a "can't miss" stud with Norris Trophy potential, Gilbert Brule is clearly the #2 pick in the draft.

But I see where you're coming from.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

That approach works for some teams. IMO, if a team that's drafting #2 needs a bluechip defenseman in the organization they'll without a doubt draft Johnson over Brule. Alot of people considered Jay Bouwmeester the lock for #1 in his draft year, but what happened? Columbus picked Rick Nash based on NEED, which was (at the time) a top flight forward since they already had Klesla. The same kind of thing could occur this year.

You could argue they didn't take Nash based on need and saw him as the best player available.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

You take the BPA in the draft and then trade your assets. Only an idiot would pass up on Brule.

He may not be considered the consensus BPA available at #2 come draft time.

Don't close your mind to possibilities.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

You could argue they didn't take Nash based on need and saw him as the best player available.

True, but don't you think it's more likely, given the fact Columbus was an expansion team with a *plan* that was being followed that they would draft a forward rather then a D-man or goaltender? After all, the did have Klesla and Leclaire.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Brule is comparable to Sidney Crosby, although he'd lose 99.9% of the time, but unless Jack Johnson is a "can't miss" stud with Norris Trophy potential, Gilbert Brule is clearly the #2 pick in the draft.

But I see where you're coming from.

Are you labeling Brule "can't miss"? That's kind of dangerous IMO. Bottomline to me? There is a much bigger gap between Crosby and Brule then Brule and Johnson.

 

[leafaholix*]

True, but don't you think it's more likely, given the fact Columbus was an expansion team with a *plan* that was being followed that they would draft a forward rather then a D-man or goaltender? After all, the did have Klesla and Leclaire.

Columbus' GM was insanely in love with Rick Nash prior to the draft, I don't think it had anything to do with positions, he was drooling all over the thought of picking up this kid from London, Ontario.

Even on TV and Radio shows, it was obvious who he was talking about, gloating like a crazy man.

 

[leafaholix*]

Are you labeling Brule "can't miss"? That's kind of dangerous IMO. Bottomline to me? There is a much bigger gap between Crosby and Brule then Brule and Johnson.

There's a major gap between Crosby and anyone else over the last 10 to 20 drafts. So that means little.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Columbus' GM was insanely in love with Rick Nash prior to the draft, I don't think it had anything to do with positions, he was drooling all over the thought of picking up this kid from London, Ontario.

Even on TV and Radio shows, it was obvious who he was talking about, gloating like a crazy man.

My point is, there are situations where the "consensus" best player available is bypassed because a team's braintrust wants to go in another direction.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

There's a major gap between Crosby and anyone else over the last 10 to 20 drafts. So that means little.

No there isn't. There have been several players drafted in the past 20 years that are superior to Crosby. My point didn't revolve around Crosby anyway. it revolves around Brule. IMO, while Brule is a top talent, he isn't light years ahead of the players that will occupy the other 8 or so positions in the top ten in this draft.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

There's a major gap between Crosby and anyone else over the last 10 to 20 drafts. So that means little.

Major gap? I think that's some serious exaggeration on your part. You obviously have bought into the Crosby hype moreso than other prospects but guys like Lindros, Ovechkin, Thornton were equally as highly hyped, touted and thought of.

 

[leafaholix*]

Major gap? I think that's some serious exaggeration on your part.

But you get the point.

Btw... exaggerate is my middle name.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

My point is, there are situations where the "consensus" best player available is bypassed because a team's braintrust wants to go in another direction.

Then that player was not their best player available. Consensus is completely irrelevant to what a certain team will pick unless it affects their decision to move up/down. I don't see any team passing up a player they have as clearly better in order to draft by position.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Then that player was not their best player available. Consensus is completely irrelevant to what a certain team will pick unless it affects their decision to move up/down. I don't see any team passing up a player they have as clearly better in order to draft by position.

I understand that. I was speaking mainly from an outside scouting viewpoint.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

That approach works for some teams. IMO, if a team that's drafting #2 needs a bluechip defenseman in the organization they'll without a doubt draft Johnson over Brule. Alot of people considered Jay Bouwmeester the lock for #1 in his draft year, but what happened? Columbus picked Rick Nash based on NEED, which was (at the time) a top flight forward since they already had Klesla. The same kind of thing could occur this year.

So why did they take Leclaire when they already had Denis? Obviously a goaltender was not the most pressing need at that point in their franchise. And yet they must have felt he was the best player available.

There's endless examples of teams that don't fill a need with their 1st round pick and instead go with the best player available. I haven't seen very many convincing examples of the reverse though.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

But you get the point.

No. How would I get your point when the only thing you said had no merit to me?

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Are you labeling Brule "can't miss"? That's kind of dangerous IMO. Bottomline to me? There is a much bigger gap between Crosby and Brule then Brule and Johnson.

Matt Macinnis who posts in here talks to scouts and managers alike and he says that no one is even close to Brule right now.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Anyways, look at the brighter side of things. The team picking third is going to have a hell of a party getting one of Jack Johnson or Gilbert Brule. Thats if they dont like Ryan, Bertram, Latendresse, O'Marra, Bourret, Rask, Durand, Setoguchi, Bergfors, Pouliot. Lol, this is one heck of a draft class.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Matt Macinnis who posts in here talks to scouts and managers alike and he says that no one is even close to Brule right now.

He must not be getting to Ann Arbor Michigan much then. Johnson is a heck of a prospect and is climbing up the draft ladder "heller" fast. He's a rare combination of skill and toughness who is only getting bigger and stronger.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Matt Macinnis who posts in here talks to scouts and managers alike and he says that no one is even close to Brule right now.

Right. I'm sure he talks to *some* scouts, and *some* teams, but not all. As has already been mentioned Johnson is now up to #2 on the ISS list, so Brule being the "consensus" #2 isn't true.

 

[ZombieMatt]

Right. I'm sure he talks to *some* scouts, and *some* teams, but not all. As has already been mentioned Johnson is now up to #2 on the ISS list, so Brule being the "consesus" #2 isn't true.

This is very reasonable to say.

The two individuals who I have spoken to in regards to the top end of the 2005 draft have been a Hockey Canada official who is involved in the junior program (that was this summer) and a scout whose primary territory was Atlantic Canada.

Obviously I assume that the scout networks with associates.

From what acquaintances of mine have said who are in Vancouver, they feel Brule is being greatly underappreciated because of Crosby.

Of course nobody talks to every team, and nobody sees every player of course. With all due respect to Johnson and everyone else, I remain confident that come draft day the order will be Crosby, Brule......everyone else. I'm not going to come out and say everyone else is wrong, because anything can happen. I 100% respect what other people interpret. I've never seen either player play a full game and am going solely on the reports I personally have had.

However, one thing that I do warn, and by no means do I mean to suggest that this is a bias that I'm "above" in any way, but there is also a possibility that some guys are bigger on Johnson because they see them often. ISS has recognized Johnson, with that said. (just FYI, my own personal 'favourite bias' is Adam Pineault).

Thanks guys, I look forward to hopefully being able to see both of these guys in the WJC for a few games.

 

[Postman]

However, one thing that I do warn, and by no means do I mean to suggest that this is a bias that I'm "above" in any way, but there is also a possibility that some guys are bigger on Johnson because they see them often.

The same could be said for the guys that are bigger on Brule. I doubt many people in Western Canada have had a chance to see Johnson play.

Personally, I can't comment on how close they are, as I've never seen Brule play.

 

[ZombieMatt]

The same could be said for the guys that are bigger on Brule. I doubt many people in Western Canada have had a chance to see Johnson play.

Personally, I can't comment on how close they are, as I've never seen Brule play.

Yes, sorry, that is what I was getting at in a really bad, roundabout way with my commenting about Pineault. Sorry for not making that clear, you're absolutely right.

 

[cagney]

Since it became a major part of this thread I'll remind everyone what happend at the 2002 draft...

Florida won the lottery and thus the first overall pick with which they were going to take Bouwmeester. The day of the draft Columbus, in possesion of the third overall pick, was worried that they would miss out on Nash if other teams traded for Atlanta's second overall pick. They made a deal with Florida in which they got the first overall pick while Florida got the right to swap first round picks with them in the 2003 draft. Thus, Nash got the privelage to be picked first overall while poor Bouwmeester, the consensus number one for the whole year, dropped to third.

 

[boby]

Since i watch Bourret for you (HFBOARD), i became a big fan of Bourret. This kid make me lift up of my seet and however i saw a lot of player's. Most of the people put Bourret beetween 13-20 for the next draft because he's tall is 5'10'' but for me, this tall have nothing to disagree for him if you have ever him play. If you never saw him play, i anderstand why you are sceptic about him. For me i put Bourret beetween 5-8 and i will not surprise to see him drafted beetween 4-5. This player his the most complete include Crosby, i'm explain, this player hit beetween 5-6 checks per game and 2 of his checks is unbelievable, he is rapid and he have magicien hands. He have an incroyable vision of game and he is very generous of his pass. He watch his defensive and drop (fight) when is the time and at the good time and the weight and tall off his opponents are not important for him.

 

[Blackshad]

I really think Johnson is up with Brule class, and yes I have seen both play live and Johnson is up on that elite package with Brule so the gap isn't as close as you think. Also is Latendresse gets into his grove he is not far off either.

IMO Latendresse as a long way to go ...
Saw him several time this year.
Nowhere near Bourret and lightyears from Crosby