German football 2020/21

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It has almost nothing to do with him.

Player restrictions is the main reason. It's much less restrictive in Germany than Spain, England, Italy or France. And a few have had success there, so that helps for the up and coming players to get scouted. If you are Schalke or Dortmund and you've either sold American players for large fees or are about to, you are definitely willing to bring in a 16 or 18 year old American kid on a free into your academy. You've already had a lot of success doing so. Meanwhile, a club like Atletico Madrid or Liverpool has no success with that.

The German-American players are due to the large US Army presence in Germany as opposed to other European countries, but usually when most people talk about American players in Germany nowadays its about McKennie, Adams, Reyna, Pulisic prior to this season, and not Brooks, Chandler or Johnson.

 

[Bon Esprit]

The first American I remember in Bundesliga was Tom Dooley at Kaiserslautern, A workhorse, not a finesse player, but well respected.
Eric Wynalda back in the day way a pure marketing thing.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Does Jimmy Hartwig count? If he was active today, he probably would have been poached by the Americans.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The first American I remember in Bundesliga was Tom Dooley at Kaiserslatern, A workhorse, not a finesse player, but well respected.
Eric Wynalda back in the day way a pure marketing thing.

Wynalda was actually very good in the US, and for our National Team. He was the best American attacker we produced until Donovan, another guy that struggled in Germany. I guess Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Reyna, and company have made up for the early struggles of some of the better American players.

 

[KingLB]

Don’t forgot Dolo’!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Don’t forgot Dolo’!

Cherundolo was great, but so under the radar that almost no one would remember his contribution. He had a great career at Hannover.

Clint Mathis was another American at Hannover. I don't know if @Bon Esprit remembers this game, but about 15 years ago Mathis scored a winning goal against Schalke after coming off the bench, and he ran right over to the coach and tapped his watch to signal that he should've been subbed on earlier. He never played again for the club after that game. What a crazy career Mathis had. Such a talented player on his day, but hugely enigmatic.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Cherundolo was great, but so under the radar that almost no one would remember his contribution. He had a great career at Hannover.

Clint Mathis was another American at Hannover. I don't know if @Bon Esprit remembers this game, but about 15 years ago Mathis scored a winning goal against Schalke after coming off the bench, and he ran right over to the coach and tapped his watch to signal that he should've been subbed on earlier. He never played again for the club after that game. What a crazy career Mathis had. Such a talented player on his day, but hugely enigmatic.

Little Steven played like 20 years (not true) for 96 and he is well respected. Great guy snd yes, under the radar, but not in Hannover. He was and still is a fan favourite for a good reason.
I remember Mathis, he didn't get along with Lienen.

Btw. Hannover once had Canadian Julian de Guzman on their team. Very good and important player for 96.

 

[Albatros]

I personally think that they should follow the English model and have a reserve league, and keep the reserve teams out of the real leagues where clubs are trying to accomplish something. In the 3.Liga you have teams drawing 15k-20k fans, teams that are planning to go back to the BuLi within a few years...teams that make the league more interesting for people...and then you got reserve teams that don't add anything. It's not even like you get to see the greatest prospects with Bayern II, it's mostly 2nd tier prospects and guys they signed specifically to play for the reserves.

Maybe, but when you go down the ladder it starts to get complicated. Even relatively minor clubs have reserve teams. If all of these would have separate leagues it would create a whole parallel structure and I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh the negatives. Banning reserves from 3. Liga would be much easier and in my opinion there's no real downside to it.

 

[PeteWorrell]

Yes and I wouldn't be surprised if Nuri Sahin is next. Since he's Turkish there's hope for him to get a job in Turkish leauge, but we still have Corona.

Crazy that once upon a time he was bought and played for Real Madrid to now most likely having to retire at 31 after years of doing nothing.

 

[Albatros]

The last few seasons he's played quite a lot more than previously, it's just that he has also been very forgettable.

 

[Bon Esprit]

The last few seasons he's played quite a lot more than previously, it's just that he has also been very forgettable.

I have nothing against the player, but he is what you call a passenger. He won titles in differnt countries, but hasnt done anything special since 6 or 7 years or so.
And until the new Dortmnd guy plays his first match he is the youngest Bundesliga player ever.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Mario Götze seems to have some options in France and Italy or Spain, which is a good thing, because I think he would fit good there. Monaco, Milan,
FC Sevilla are in play.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Mario Götze seems to have some options in France and Italy or Spain, which is a good thing, because I think he would fit good there. Monaco, Milan,
FC Sevilla are in play.

I'm hoping for Sevilla. I think it'd be a great fit for him.

 

[Cassano]

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Mario Götze seems to have some options in France and Italy or Spain, which is a good thing, because I think he would fit good there. Monaco, Milan,
FC Sevilla are in play.

You mean the Monaco that just got Nico Kovac as manager? Interesting.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Barca B is one win away from being promoted to the second division. I don't know why so many thought it was such a bad thing that Bayern U23 won the third division. There's no third division anywhere in the world that is strong enough that it can keep a powerhouse football organization that has a good generation of youth products and some good veteran signings from performing well in that league.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Not good, but also not unexpected.

 

[PeteWorrell]

He should start thinking of retiring early. He will still have many years to live after he is done with football and it is not worth it to spend the rest of your life as a cripple.

 

[Albatros]

Barca B is one win away from being promoted to the second division. I don't know why so many thought it was such a bad thing that Bayern U23 won the third division. There's no third division anywhere in the world that is strong enough that it can keep a powerhouse football organization that has a good generation of youth products and some good veteran signings from performing well in that league.

If the youth are good enough maybe, but what's the point in having FC Bayern U23 sign a bunch of seasoned veterans that have absolutely no hope of making the first team?

 

[Bon Esprit]

He should start thinking of retiring early. He will still have many years to live after he is done with football and it is not worth it to spend the rest of your life as a cripple.

That's right. His body says: STOP! He should hear his body.

 

[Albatros]

If his driving habits are at all indicative then that's not going to happen.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If the youth are good enough maybe, but what's the point in having FC Bayern U23 sign a bunch of seasoned veterans that have absolutely no hope of making the first team?

Maybe they'll get more publicity to improve their careers. I believe the top scorer for the team was signed to play next season in the Eredivisie. Would that Eredivisie club be looking in the German third division to a non-Bayern owned club? It's possible, but I'd guess not. His few appearances for the Bayern first team at the end of a season or when the team has a lot of injuries could be helpful enough. I'm sure there's more publicity for these veteran players at the few chances they'd get to play in a Bayern preseason game or maybe for a few minutes in one or two competitive games they play in for the Bayern first team than if they played in that same third division for another club. I believe Bayern U23 games also get more TV coverage than other third division clubs, and they obviously also get more publicity from fans.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Maybe they'll get more publicity to improve their careers. I believe the top scorer for the team was signed to play next season in the Eredivisie. Would that Eredivisie club be looking in the German third division to a non-Bayern owned club? It's possible, but I'd guess not. His few appearances for the Bayern first team at the end of a season or when the team has a lot of injuries could be helpful enough. I'm sure there's more publicity for these veteran players at the few chances they'd get to play in a Bayern preseason game or maybe for a few minutes in one or two competitive games they play in for the Bayern first team than if they played in that same third division for another club. I believe Bayern U23 games also get more TV coverage than other third division clubs, and they obviously also get more publicity from fans.

Nope. "Bayern II' are 19th out of 20 in attendance. Hardly anyone watches their games. They get a hardcore of Bayern ultras (classic "Allesfahrer" types) but other than that it's basically 'family and friends' territory. There's also no real interest in televising those matches either (people don't become Bayern fans to watch 3rd division matches). That's the whole reason the number of reserve teams was restricted in the 3.Liga. They don't generate commercial value.

There's clubs in the division like Kaiserslautern, Rostock, Duisburg and Waldhof that are the main clubs in pretty big cities and draw a lot of regional media attention. Those clubs drive the public interest in the league. For fans of those teams, games against Bayern II or any other team with a "II' next to its name are a chore. No hype and few opposing fans. For the clubs it's even worse because it damages the product's overall attractiveness.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Best thing to happen (or worst) would be a strong Lok Leipzig. Fierce rivalry with Dynamo Dresden and of course RB. If there only weren't those damn fans.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Nope. "Bayern II' are 19th out of 20 in attendance. Hardly anyone watches their games. They get a hardcore of Bayern ultras (classic "Allesfahrer" types) but other than that it's basically 'family and friends' territory. There's also no real interest in televising those matches either (people don't become Bayern fans to watch 3rd division matches). That's the whole reason the number of reserve teams was restricted in the 3.Liga. They don't generate commercial value.

There's clubs in the division like Kaiserslautern, Rostock, Duisburg and Waldhof that are the main clubs in pretty big cities and draw a lot of regional media attention. Those clubs drive the public interest in the league. For fans of those teams, games against Bayern II or any other team with a "II' next to its name are a chore. No hype and few opposing fans. For the clubs it's even worse because it damages the product's overall attractiveness.

You are talking about the reaction purely inside Germany for the local cities, and towns that house these 3rd division teams. For those teams, I can understand why they don't like Bayern U23, but it's not as if Bayern U23 is allowed in the first division. They aren't even allowed in the second division. At a certain point, which is the third division here, you need to stop caring about what clubs and fan bases think of your league structure, and tell them to play better if they want to have more say in these decisions. If they can't outplay a team of kids with a few veterans, should anyone care about their complaining about how a U23 team damages the product of the league?

Also, outside of Germany most football fans haven't even heard of the majority of third division teams, besides those traditionally bigger teams that have fallen a few divisions, as you mentioned. The third division has a few of those teams. The rest are small clubs with little money, small fan-bases, players who don't have much pedigree. What a reserve team loses the league in gate revenue or a real fan-base, it generates for the league in other ways that I already mentioned. I don't see how a U23 team is bad for the brand of a league. The main complainers about this stuff are the teams and fans of teams that are losing these games to a team like Bayern U23, or in Spain, Barca B.