German football 2019/2020

TheMoreYouKnow

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It's not just the unprecedented totals he's putting up, regardless of age, it's the way he's putting them up. I've never seen anyone at these levels be the ever-present threat he is, despite playing up multiple age groups...always putting himself & pushing his side, into dangerous positions with the ball.

Theres no regardless of age here, I looked like Maradona playing vs 8 year olds as a 12 year old.
 

gary69

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Sep 22, 2004
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It's not just the unprecedented totals he's putting up, regardless of age, it's the way he's putting them up. I've never seen anyone at these levels be the ever-present threat he is, despite playing up multiple age groups...always putting himself & pushing his side, into dangerous positions with the ball.

Nonody knows how that translates to men's game though, where tactics and defenders are so much better. Take Romelo Lukaku for example. He scored about 250 goals in 150 official youth games for Lierse and Anderlecht before moving to play with adults permanently at the age of 16. While he obviously has had a good career, even if he the most of the tools needed to be great, just missing that one attribute might prevent a player becoming a really great one. And while Lukaku's size had a lot to do with his youth goal amounts, it's always a tough balance to decide whether trying to change a player to a more all rounded or whether to let him concentrate even more onto his strengths.

Since nobody knows which kind of team, tactics and teammates a player ends up for most of his career, it might be tempting to mould a young player into a more well rounded one. Which might not end up serving the player best individually in the long run, even if most safety first managers and clubs might prefer such a player.
 
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cgf

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Nonody knows how that translates to men's game though, where tactics and defenders are so much better. Take Romelo Lukaku for example. He scored about 250 goals in 150 official youth games for Lierse and Anderlecht before moving to play with adults permanently at the age of 16. While he obviously has had a good career, even if he the most of the tools needed to be great, just missing that one attribute might prevent a player becoming a really great one. And while Lukaku's size had a lot to do with his youth goal amounts, it's always a tough balance to decide whether trying to change a player to a more all rounded or whether to let him concentrate even more onto his strengths.

Since nobody knows which kind of team, tactics and teammates a player ends up for most of his career, it might be tempting to mould a young player into a more well rounded one. Which might not end up serving the player best individually in the long run, even if most safety first managers and clubs might prefer such a player.

Oh no doubt. It's why I keep repeating how I can't wait to see his game at the senior level and started this discussion by saying that I don't even know what to make of his dominance at this level until we see what he's able to do against men.

That said...I think Lukaku isn't the best example because he's exactly the kind of physically super-developed kids that I am generally more skeptical of unless their tools project to be unique even at the top level. But there have been other kids to put up huge numbers with skill & creativity (even if not to the same extent as Moukoko), who also failed; so the exact example doesn't really matter to your point and I'm just indulging my inner-pedant :laugh:


I'm just incredibly curious to find out how this dominance translates...because we've never seen something even in the same stratosphere in germany. We've never seen an ever-present threat/source-of-danger, despite playing multiple age groups up, even close to this degree...and I can't wait to find out how it plays out in the long run, either way.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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...but that's the inverse. Moukoko is the 8 year-old looking like maradona against 12-year-olds.

Yeah, sure, that's the story here. Let me just throw this out, the man had an 18 year old girlfriend when he was said to be 12 years old according to his 'papers'.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Lukaku was also said to be much older than he is. Shouldn't he be retiring around now if he's actually five years older?

Those who cheat with this tactic usually are not that good to begin with, and it's usually systemic. It usually comes from the federation of a certain country, not an individual player who has been able to cheat the system. It's usually not a player who scores at incredible rates in a good youth set-up for a sustained period of time. If for some reason Moukoko was 4 or 5 years older, he'd still be very good, considering he's playing with players 2 and 3 years older than him right now and is dominating.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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Most guys on the U19 teams this season are born 2001/2002, he is said to have been born in 2004. If hes just 2 years older than said hed be playing against kids around his own age. Add another year or two and hed be playing against younger kids.

The reality is that in a large number of countries there is no reliable registration or documentation system in place for personal data. When documents need to be issued, the basis for what is put in those documents is often not verifiable.

Then consider that in immigration/asylum matters younger generally is better (as minors generally enjoy certain protections not granted to adults), so there is an incentive to err on the young side. That there is a black market for papers showing the desired information is no secret either.

At the end of the day, I dont care *that* much, we’ll see soon enough how he will play as a senior player. Nobody knew how old Kanu really was and he did a good job even when he was probably about 40 year old.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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I’m merely saying that he wouldn’t be scoring six goals in a game if he was bad and his only advantage is that he’s a year or two older than these players.

The numbers he puts up would be impressive, unless we found out he was 25-30. If you send Arp or Joveljic or Sargent or Cunha down to the U19’s for four games, they aren’t scoring 9 goals in 4 games to start the season, like Moukoko has. And let’s say they did, they are good players, so being 4 or 5 years older wouldn’t make Moukoko a bad player incapable of being a good striker in the pro game. Until there’s real evidence that he’s older than he says, it’s baseless speculation that suits no one.
 
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Maverick41

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A Schalke fan has filed a complaint against the referee and video referee vs. Bayern for fraud.

 

cgf

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I’m merely saying that he wouldn’t be scoring six goals in a game if he was bad and his only advantage is that he’s a year or two older than these players.

The numbers he puts up would be impressive, unless we found out he was 25-30. If you send Arp or Joveljic or Sargent or Cunha down to the U19’s for four games, they aren’t scoring 9 goals in 4 games to start the season, like Moukoko has. And let’s say they did, they are good players, so being 4 or 5 years older wouldn’t make Moukoko a bad player incapable of being a good striker in the pro game. Until there’s real evidence that he’s older than he says, it’s baseless speculation that suits no one.

It suits people with a certain agenda...
 
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Bon Esprit

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It suits people with a certain agenda...
It's the same with Jatta from HSV. If it is relavant immigratiom authorities should take care. Otherwise it's baseless. IIRC Bochum and another team challenge their lost games.
Anthony Yeboah was 4 or 5 years older than stated IIRC.
 

Live in the Now

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It was actually that Yeboah was two years younger than stated. He had his age changed because he couldn't play pro football in Ghana at age 17.

As for Moukoko, if there is any age changing, it doesn't benefit him to be younger. He can't play pro football at his age. If he was older he'd already be a pro, so I don't believe that shit at all. He also has a German birth certificate. His age was most definitely not changed.
 
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gary69

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Lukaku was also said to be much older than he is. Shouldn't he be retiring around now if he's actually five years older?

Those who cheat with this tactic usually are not that good to begin with, and it's usually systemic. It usually comes from the federation of a certain country, not an individual player who has been able to cheat the system. It's usually not a player who scores at incredible rates in a good youth set-up for a sustained period of time. If for some reason Moukoko was 4 or 5 years older, he'd still be very good, considering he's playing with players 2 and 3 years older than him right now and is dominating.

I don't remember seeing that in any credible sources. He wasn't born abroad and his father was somewhat well-know pro player (Kenya international) playing in Belgium, and the births & lives of his children were documented from young age. It's not like Romelo was born at home instead of a Belgian hospital and kept hidden at home for the first years of his lives.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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I don't remember seeing that in any credible sources. He wasn't born abroad and his father was somewhat well-know pro player (Kenya international) playing in Belgium, and the births & lives of his children were documented from young age. It's not like Romelo was born at home instead of a Belgian hospital and kept hidden at home for the first years of his lives.

I'm talking about the internet complainers. He was bigger than everyone else, much better than everyone else and in general the guy has physically always looked older than he is.

I don't think there was ever any substance behind the claims for the reasons you state. I don't think there's much substance behind the claims about Moukoko either.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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He also has a German birth certificate. His age was most definitely not changed.

This is actually the one semi-valid point of debate here. He was born in Cameroon, and his birth was registered with the German consulate in Cameroon. Some say that its unreliable because the record system in the African countries isn't as good, but I don't tend to buy this reasoning, considering I don't think the German consulate in Cameroon is inept.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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He received a German birth certificate in 2016. What exactly do you think they used to verify the information? They just took the Cameroonian paperwork and accepted it. They didn't have a magic wand to figure out his real age, so barring any contrary info they accepted what was there. But this is also a country where it is known that multitudes of adults claimed to be juveniles and authorities took them at their word. So yes maybe "inept" is actually a decent word to describe the authorities' ability to figure out the real age of people from countries in Africa and the Middle East.
 

bluesfan94

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He received a German birth certificate in 2016. What exactly do you think they used to verify the information? They just took the Cameroonian paperwork and accepted it. They didn't have a magic wand to figure out his real age, so barring any contrary info they accepted what was there. But this is also a country where it is known that multitudes of adults claimed to be juveniles and authorities took them at their word. So yes maybe "inept" is actually a decent word to describe the authorities' ability to figure out the real age of people from countries in Africa and the Middle East.
If he really were >16, don't you think he'd come out with it now so he could be making a paycheck playing football? Plus, that's not what happened. His birth certificate was authenticated in 2016. His father said that he registered Moukoko at the German embassy at birth. Pretty decent chance there were records of that and that's what Germany used to confirm. But I know, the more information you get, the more you'll twist it into fitting your grand conspiracy, so what's the point
 
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Duchene2MacKinnon

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I know next to nothing about this player only from what I've read the last couple of pages but how does he benefit from lying about his age? He's not a mid 20 yr old lying to play in the u20s. We're assuming he's lying about being 14 that is playing in the u19s. How is that benefiting him in anyway?
 

YNWA14

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I know next to nothing about this player only from what I've read the last couple of pages but how does he benefit from lying about his age? He's not a mid 20 yr old lying to play in the u20s. We're assuming he's lying about being 14 that is playing in the u19s. How is that benefiting him in anyway?
Hype and youth records >>>>>>>>>
 

Bon Esprit

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LOL, Peter Neururer :help:

„Lügen-Konstrukt“: Peter Neururer rechnet mit Wattenscheid 09 ab - WELT

Wasn't he the guy who said: If it was about professional expertise I should be coach of Real Madrid.

For the not german speaking:

Former Bundesliga coach Neururer got a call from former Schalke president Schnusenberg who asked to help him out. Neururer didn't realize Schnusenberg wasn't with Schalke anyymore but with 4th league club Wattenscheid 09. He thought he was asked to replace Tedesco to coach Schalke. Instead he became sportdirector of near bancrupt Wattenscheid.
 
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cgf

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It's the same with Jatta from HSV. If it is relavant immigratiom authorities should take care. Otherwise it's baseless. IIRC Bochum and another team challenge their lost games.
Anthony Yeboah was 4 or 5 years older than stated IIRC.

Pretty much. It certainly happens, like it just did in the NBA with Buddy Hield; who had been listed 1 year younger in error and everyone thought he was joking when he would tell team officials that he's actually a year older...but until there's hard evidence/a good reason to consider it, it's irrelevant to all but the most melanin-level obsessed observers.
 

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