German Football 2018/2019

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd like to see a Witsel/Dahoud/Gotze midfield. Delaney is an okay back up but I wouldn't start him over any of those three.

Delaney is definitely a back up.

I agree with that midfield for now, but lets see what happens when Weigl returns. He's played a couple of reserve matches now. I think when fit and on form, he's a starter. I also think though that having 4 good CM's for 3 spots is good for a team that is playing in Europe. Being able to rotate them in and out of the lineup is good. And having someone like Delaney as the fifth option shows a lot of depth. No more Sahin or Rode losing points for Dortmund.

 

[les Habs]

I only saw the second half, but that was nothing special from Dahoud. Blazed over a chance that at minimum should have been on goal and got a stupid yellow card. Did really well to score the goal he had, but didn't offer a lot in the second half. Scoreline flattered BVB too. Burki with some nice saves though.

 

[Tutu to]

How did havertz and Brandt play this week?

 

[Deficient Mode]

Come on, now.

He had a bad game against Greuther Furth. No argument from me on that, but he's always the player who gets blamed when a bunch of them play poorly because there are people who want to make it seem like he's some big story of a failure to live up to the initial hype. He's a different player than a couple of years ago, but he's still very good. I don't know how people could ignore his contributions in the possession game, the chance creation game, his decision-making in the center of midfield. If we could also just overlook his athleticism for a second, we could recognize that he's underrated defensively.

Dahoud and Delaney were even worse than he was against Furth, yet they retain spots with worse track records and as worse footballers. I don't even understand the logic in the formation and lineup that Favre used today, although I guess the team won, so its not that big of an issue.

He wasn't even bad against Greuther Fürth. He just wasn't overly involved. So often those two things are conflated when it comes to Götze. When the center backs attempted to pass between the lines, Götze would usually switch onto the wings with Pulisic and/or Wolf away from the ball so they could develop the play. When buildup went to the wings, however, Pulisic or Wolf were there. He wasn't a primary playmaker; he just supported the play and made connections. When an unexpected situation broke out - like Diallo somehow managed to dribble the ball up the wing on Götze's side himself, or Götze stole the ball and initiated a counter a few minutes before being subbed off - Götze made very good plays that led to offensive chances.

I didn't notice Delaney complete a single forward pass (where the recipient is closer to goal than the passer; so not necessarily lateral passes that move the ball slightly forward) in that match in the time before Götze was subbed off. He was 0 for 4 as far as I could tell. The center backs carried the vast brunt of the actual buildup duties. The problem with this is that a center back passing straight vertically through the half spaces is more telegraphed and easier to pressure than a diagonal pass into the half space from the 6. This may have been why Favre generally had his more dynamic dribblers like Wolf and Pulisic receive the balls in these situations rather than Götze. I'd say complaints about Götze's performance really come down to a poorly organized midfield buildup, which to me is far more a function of Delaney's qualities and role than of Götze or Dahoud.

And really, Dortmund in that match generated chances more effectively at 0-0 than they did when they were behind or tied against Leipzig, too - albeit against a far weaker opponent. They just didn't convert them.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Transfer perfekt: Rudy wechselt von Bayern zu Schalke
Rudy to Schalke is official.

 

[gary69]

Werner not starting for Leipzig.

I heard he was slightly injured (stomach) during the week. Werner certainly has had a very broken pre-season/start of the season, I wonder how long it will take for him to get going.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He wasn't even bad against Greuther Fürth. He just wasn't overly involved. So often those two things are conflated when it comes to Götze. When the center backs attempted to pass between the lines, Götze would usually switch onto the wings with Pulisic and/or Wolf away from the ball so they could develop the play. When buildup went to the wings, however, Pulisic or Wolf were there. He wasn't a primary playmaker; he just supported the play and made connections. When an unexpected situation broke out - like Diallo somehow managed to dribble the ball up the wing on Götze's side himself, or Götze stole the ball and initiated a counter a few minutes before being subbed off - Götze made very good plays that led to offensive chances.

I didn't notice Delaney complete a single forward pass (where the recipient is closer to goal than the passer; so not necessarily lateral passes that move the ball slightly forward) in that match in the time before Götze was subbed off. He was 0 for 4 as far as I could tell. The center backs carried the vast brunt of the actual buildup duties. The problem with this is that a center back passing straight vertically through the half spaces is more telegraphed and easier to pressure than a diagonal pass into the half space from the 6. This may have been why Favre generally had his more dynamic dribblers like Wolf and Pulisic receive the balls in these situations rather than Götze. I'd say complaints about Götze's performance really come down to a poorly organized midfield buildup, which to me is far more a function of Delaney's qualities and role than of Götze or Dahoud.

And really, Dortmund in that match generated chances more effectively at 0-0 than they did when they were behind or tied against Leipzig, too - albeit against a far weaker opponent. They just didn't convert them.

For the role he plays though, you kind of expect him to be involved. It doesn't have to be with goals or assists, which is something I think people often get wrong about what Goetze should be contributing, but I thought he had a pretty weak game, and I usually defend him more than most. He wasn't really doing such a great job circulating the ball to the needed dangerous areas or creating scoring chances. And you aren't wrong about the problem with our buildup in this game, but we should expect a bigger contribution from him. I think the problem here is that Goetze can never go a game of not being great without getting criticism. Many worse players on the team can do that, but the first time Goetze doesn't play well or is uninvolved, a lot of fans start criticizing him to big extremes or he gets benched by the coach.

Goetze didn't make the German WC team because he's polarizing. Any other player and you analyze his contributions fairly from last season, thats a WC player for any team in the world. I also think how Favre wants to use Goetze this season might be a problem. He doesn't seem to want to play a 4-1-2-3/4-3-3 double 8 style of formation. Instead, it might be more of a 4-2-3-1, which will not work well for what Goetze currently brings. I don't know if we can be really successful with this current squad without Goetze having a big impact, so I think Favre is going to have to adjust his formation and usage of Goetze for this team to have big success this season. I also think Weigl won't work well in that type of formation. I think this team is gong to struggle if we are relying on some set-up that has two of Delaney, Witsel, Dahoud for the "2", Reus for the #10 role with Philipp and Alcacer rotating CF, and some combination of Pulisic, Sancho, Wolf, Philipp on the wings.

 

[Deficient Mode]

For the role he plays though, you kind of expect him to be involved. It doesn't have to be with goals or assists, which is something I think people often get wrong about what Goetze should be contributing, but I thought he had a pretty weak game, and I usually defend him more than most. He wasn't really doing such a great job circulating the ball to the needed dangerous areas or creating scoring chances. And you aren't wrong about the problem with our buildup in this game, but we should expect a bigger contribution from him. I think the problem here is that Goetze can never go a game of not being great without getting criticism. Many worse players on the team can do that, but the first time Goetze doesn't play well or is uninvolved, a lot of fans start criticizing him to big extremes or he gets benched by the coach.

Goetze didn't make the German WC team because he's polarizing. Any other player and you analyze his contributions fairly from last season, thats a WC player for any team in the world. I also think how Favre wants to use Goetze this season might be a problem. He doesn't seem to want to play a 4-1-2-3/4-3-3 double 8 style of formation. Instead, it might be more of a 4-2-3-1, which will not work well for what Goetze currently brings. I don't know if we can be really successful with this current squad without Goetze having a big impact, so I think Favre is going to have to adjust his formation and usage of Goetze for this team to have big success this season. I also think Weigl won't work well in that type of formation. I think this team is gong to struggle if we are relying on some set-up that has two of Delaney, Witsel, Dahoud for the "2", Reus for the #10 role with Philipp and Alcacer rotating CF, and some combination of Pulisic, Sancho, Wolf, Philipp on the wings.

I think there are a fair number of games where he doesn't seem involved. But the part about him not really being the first to receive the ball in the final third and only getting it when Pulisic or Wolf used him was not really his fault. It's part of the team's game. Favre was just quoted as saying that he says Götze as a 9.5 rather than as an 8, and even if that wasn't entirely the role he played, it betrays that Favre doesn't think Götze should be as involved in central midfield as the last few coaches Dortmund had, and it sort of showed in the Fürth match, and may also be the source of your perception that he didn't have a good match. I thought he had a couple of bad scenes, and a couple of very good scenes vs Fürth, and a bunch of simple plays where he received the ball from a wing player and just fed it back to them a few meters up the field.

I also think the narratives against him boil down to him not being present and active enough. A certain sector of fans only care that their players are running hard, "fighting", and - if an offensive player - taking people on one on one. They don't see the larger team cohesion that he improves. I know we agree on this, however. I hope Favre will see it too.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Alcacer is in Dortmund for medical.

 

[Albatros]

Not a bad career.

 

[Bon Esprit]

So everyhing is new for the NT. LOL. Khedria and Rudy out. That's it. The genius Löw recognized that possession game is no longer state of the art. And Schneider now is head scout. <<should be fun next week vs. France.

 

[Evilo]

Well, Ozil's out too

 

[Bon Esprit]

Well, Ozil's out too

Gomez, too. But this has nothing to do with the announced new start of the NT. Hopefully Rüdiger doesn't forget his shisha or Draxler his case full of gaming equipment next week.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The whole thing is uncharted territory and not in a good way. It's pretty rare for a national team - especially a powerhouse team like this - to fail so embarrassingly and keep the same staff in place. Löw knows it, but he cant really answer the main question of just how much he can change now in order to combat the mental fatigue, stagnation and loss of sharpness that happens when you run a group for 15 years. Again, it's uncharted territory..because really it's widely known that fresh ideas and perspectives from new people are needed in these situations.

In reality, the DFB just got caught with their pants down because they were so sure that the World Cup was gonna be a success that they never even bothered to think of a plan B. Their worst case scenario was the quarterfinal, and they knew they'd stick with Jogi in that case. So when the unthinkable happened, they just didn't have anything else up their sleeves. So the next 2 years are basically just a write-off, a consequence of that organizational failure.

 

[maclean]

In reality, the DFB just got caught with their pants down because they were so sure that the World Cup was gonna be a success that they never even bothered to think of a plan B. Their worst case scenario was the quarterfinal, and they knew they'd stick with Jogi in that case. So when the unthinkable happened, they just didn't have anything else up their sleeves. So the next 2 years are basically just a write-off, a consequence of that organizational failure.

I mean, they do still have a group of players most other countries would kill for, who will presumably be looking to try to save some face after the debacle. I don't see the decline reaching Dutch levels and having them fail to qualify or something. Some bounceback is to be expected, though it won't avert the core issues.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I mean, they do still have a group of players most other countries would kill for, who will presumably be looking to try to save some face after the debacle. I don't see the decline reaching Dutch levels and having them fail to qualify or something. Some bounceback is to be expected, though it won't avert the core issues.

They could realistically bounce back under Jogi even. They probably still have the second best group of young players in the world. Jogi not really incorporating them was part of the problem.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

What does bounce back mean in a national team context? In reality, redemption is impossible before Euro 20 because both qualification and this "nations league" thing won't be seen as valid measuring sticks. Of course, if the team falters before then, it will all come crashing down, but even if they do well enough in that, a bad Euro would make all of it look like a failure. So really, anything done now and in the next year will only be reviewable in 23 and a half months.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Keeping Löw after this desaster is like Bayern keeping Kovac after going out after the group stage at CL. Pure nonsense. No country would ever do that. Problem is the DfB clowns never had a plan B if the team fails. And failing for them was not qualifing for the quarters.
I listened to the DfB presser (mind you not the entire 2 hours). They will cut the trainer staff from 11 to 7 or something and Löw said he was "arrogant" and he wasn't able to motivate the players properly. That's it? No club manager would "survive" a pc like this.

 

[Evilo]

No country would ever do?

See Domenech 2008. Reached a final in 2006 (here read Germany 2014), completely crashed in the following tournament in 2008 (read Germany 2018, minor difference) and then you know what happenned in 2010

 

[Bon Esprit]

No country would ever do?

See Domenech 2008. Reached a final in 2006 (here read Germany 2014), completely crashed in the following tournament in 2008 (read Germany 2018, minor difference) and then you know what happenned in 2010

I know what happened 2010. Then the French are as stupid as the Germans.

 

[SchwenningerWildWing]

Not a bad career.

Maybe I'm blind, but wheres the World Cup

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If Sancho isn't going to start today, when will he? Lets hope he gets the start instead of Wolf.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Dresden-Hamburg got postponed, because of Chemnitz. Germany 2018, Banana republic.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Again Delaney over Götze. Still don't think a midfielder as weak in possession as Delaney is a viable strategy against low table teams in the long run.

 

[Gecklund]

Again Delaney over Götze. Still don't think a midfielder as weak in possession as Delaney is a viable strategy against low table teams in the long run.

Is Pulisic injured?