Speculation: Gerard Gallant fired

MBH

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I think it depends on how you want to define success. I think there needs to be someone back there that can be expected to at least a base level of competence. Sadly, that's something I don't think Howard can do any more.

This team has to know they are bad. They know they are going to screw up. But there are too many nights where it looks like they have no expectation of staying in the game, and I think a lot of that falls on their goalie.

I don't expect it to be addressed during the season, but Yzerman needs to get a competent tandem in place for next year.

The problem is the major difference between Bernier and Howard.
Not sure much of that can be explained away by the defense.
 

MBH

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All we want is a system. Jacque Lemaire took a rag tag group of players to the finals with the Florida Panthers. It wasn’t pretty hockey but it worked

The year Babcock finished last with the Leafs, he could have had them competing for the playoffs if he wanted.
That's what good coaches with a fresh message can do for you.
 

lomekian

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And while guys like Larkin, Mantha, and Bertuzzi flash some skill, they're not true core elite pieces. They're all guys in the mold of Franzen or late in his career Robetaille where they'll do a lot for you, but they need someone else to drive the bus. .

To be fair I think you need to look at the analytics. Mantha manages to make the team substantially better on average when he's on the ice, even when he's not scoring, or appearing to do much. He's sort of an invisible bus driver! Sure he's not Feds, but he's really impactful in quiet ways. Larkin is being hampered by having to play near Selke level defence this season, and having a bad shooting % this year. They aren't elite but I think they do count as core pieces. They are the kind of guys who either will massively flourish alongside elite talent or will be absolutely top second line players.

Bert is different. He's just got a level of hockey sense that allows him to far exceed his physical and technical gifts, and has great hand-eye around the net.

Of course Ideally we want to get to stage where Bert & Larkin are leading the second line, and the likes of Fabbri are turning the 3rd line into a genuine scoring threat, but we are 2-3 drafts away from that.
 
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jkutswings

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The part I'm surprised about is how many people think that this season has been much worse than they expected.

I mean, if you don't adjust expectations for injuries, I suppose, but this is the year I've been expecting for 2-3 years now. It was things like goaltending playing ABOVE my expectations and the kids going on a lucky run or two last year that prevented this stretch of horrid play from already landing sooner. (And really, when they started last year with half the defense injured, they looked like they look now, do it's not exactly shocking to see it again.)

Ultimately, they're a terrible team because... they're a terrible team.
 
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DInTheB

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The part I'm surprised about is how many people think that this season has been much worse than they expected.

I mean, if you don't adjust expectations for injuries, I suppose, but this is the year I've been expecting for 2-3 years now. It was things like goaltending playing ABOVE my expectations and the kids going on a lucky run or two last year that prevented this stretch of horrid play from already landing sooner. (And really, when they started last year with half the defense injured, they looked like they look now, do it's not exactly shocking to see it again.)

In fairness, I think most people expected us to be the worst team in the league, just not maybe one of the worst teams in NHL history.
 

jkutswings

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In fairness, I think most people expected us to be the worst team in the league, just not maybe one of the worst teams in NHL history.
Fair enough, and I'm not trying to shoot the messenger here...

But from a fan perspective, what the heck is the difference?

If right now Detroit was 16-24-8 instead of 12-32-4, and was -32 in goal differential instead of -81, it's not like attendance figures would be shooting through the roof, or merchandise sales would be booming, or the team would be the talk of the town. Because I pulled those numbers from the Ottawa Senators, who are currently the second worst team in the league.

Literally the only factor that gives this team any relevance is their probably of draft position in June. "Fairly awful" versus "historically awful" sit right next to each other in the grand scheme of things. So ride it out, get what you can at the deadline, hope for a great draft and overall offseason, and let's see what happens next October.

In other words, when a team clearly isn't good enough to do anything meaningful in the playoffs, I don't give a crap about anything that happens during the regular season. They're right where they need to be, going for the #1 pick, and I think Yzerman will continue to make good moves to overhaul this mess for however many years it takes.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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The part I'm surprised about is how many people think that this season has been much worse than they expected.

I mean, if you don't adjust expectations for injuries, I suppose, but this is the year I've been expecting for 2-3 years now. It was things like goaltending playing ABOVE my expectations and the kids going on a lucky run or two last year that prevented this stretch of horrid play from already landing sooner. (And really, when they started last year with half the defense injured, they looked like they look now, do it's not exactly shocking to see it again.)

Ultimately, they're a terrible team because... they're a terrible team.

I think Kronwall and Zetterberg helped keep a balance in the room that was important as well.

Now I know a few around here will use this as an indictment on Larkin who now leads the team. But I don't think it is and I have actually admired him continuing to grow his leadership despite a tough year. I actually believe more in him as our next captain watching this and I expect that to be fixed next fall, still kind of don't get it not happening already but I digress.

Kronwall and Zetterberg carried with them a professionalism but also a resume that demanded accountability and respect, when they talked the guys had to listen. When they said to calm down the waves didn't crash quite as hard against the ship. I see it on a lot of nights. I know they weren't what they once were as players and I do think the injuries have been more crucial but we watched a material drop as each of the superstars left our team and while that is generous to Kronwall and I get he wasn't quite a superstar, he was the last of the core pieces to leave from our last cup. We live in a different dressing room now and I think it shows.

There is a lot of character in those young guys for the most part. So I am not worried, but this is them figuring out how tough it is to be in those roles and it is going to take a bit of time. I am curious to see how they apply it next year. Larkin wanted to dominate he said it all off-season and pre-season. He has had a tougher year for a variety of reasons but I haven't seen him give up or runaway from that. What happens next adjusting to it is important and I am curious to see what some of our group takes from this year and applies forward. It is their team, it is up to them to fix this current basement dwelling, it has been fully handed over and I expect adjustments. It is a part of the process.

We didn't have any depth to overcome the injuries and we also didn't have the same kind of leadership. When we went in early dips the previous years how often would both Z and Kronner stand there and talk about how much season was left. I think this team at times has allowed themselves to be overwhelmed and not focused on playing for each other as much as they should have been. Others will point that to coaching, but I think we have kind of a perfect storm of bad going. It just been a very difficult year, it is how we come out the other side of this that matters.
 
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The Zermanator

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I see this new generation as a phoenix rising from the ashes, so to speak. Zetterberg and Kronwall were those final ashes of past greatness. Larkin is that ember that sparked the birth of a new phoenix. We're in very lean times but I see that spark in the youth, particularly 71/39/17/59/11 and more recent draftees like Seider. A year or two of very high picks, along with the depth we've already got developing in players like Smith, Lindstrom et al will lead to very good results. I see a big turnaround happening around the '21-22 season, like Colorado has done recently.
 

19 for president

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I do think there is a mental difference between a 60/70pt team that finishes last and where we are now. The bigger the hole the harder it is to mentally climb out of it. Its harder to go into next season thinking we have a chance to compete, and I think all teams should feel that way even if it may not be true.

Being historically bad, builds bad habits. It can help stall growth in individual players.

Losing 4-3 stinks but at least you feel like you were competetive and you can build on that. You feel like you can do better, make adjustments, etc. Losing 8-1, 6-2, etc. feels hopeless. Its hard to go well we are getting better individually and we will be able to add some amazing assets through the draft so we can be better next year.

This kind of output is how you turn into the Oilers fiasco or even Buffalo over the years.
 

golffuul

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A friend of mine was listening to the game last night and Ken Kal between periods said (she had it in quotes, but could be a paraphrase): “I think Blashill might not last very much longer since Yzerman can see all these other coaches (e.g., Gallant et. al.) floating loose, and some of them are very good.”
 

Hen Kolland

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A friend of mine was listening to the game last night and Ken Kal between periods said (she had it in quotes, but could be a paraphrase): “I think Blashill might not last very much longer since Yzerman can see all these other coaches (e.g., Gallant et. al.) floating loose, and some of them are very good.”

Find it hard to believe Ken Kal would say anything of the sort on air.
 

Oddbob

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If we're moving the goalposts from "Yea, the teams bad, atleast we'll secure the best lottery odds. Who cares" to "Yea, the teams bad, we want to be last, but not Don Waddell's Atlanta Thrashers bad while doing it...", doesn't that failure point to Steve Yzerman way more than it does coaching?

You have basically the same roster as last year, albeit a year older, but with some decent holes without one of their best wingers (Nyquist) and some useful and/or productive supporting cast (Kronwall, Vanek, Jensen).

Yzerman was the one who decided "eh, here's Filppula, Erne and Nemeth. I guess we're good and we'll wait to see what Kronwall wants to do."

So if you're angry the team is so much worse than it was last year, you should be directing your anger at the infallible Steve Yzerman.

Hold on now, Nemeth is immensely better than Jensen. Even in this disaster season, Nemeth has given us solid defense pretty much all year, with a few bad games. Jensen is what I thought he was, a 7th defender thrust into action, because we had no one else. A number of Caps fans are already hoping they can get rid of him, as he has no business in the top 6 of a top team, or a middle team. Jensen does nothing well other than skate and is below average at pretty much every hockey skill.
 

Oddbob

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A coach should NEVER have to motivate players to not quit. The players quit against the Islanders, not the coach.

Although pretty much every athlete lacks motivation in a blowout loss, even the greats are sapped of their will to compete in those games. Teams losing by 5 or 6 goals always look like the have given up, because it is hard to stay motivated when everything is going wrong. The lack of desire after being down 5 goals in the Isles game is not on Blashill, but to say that a coaches job is not to motivate players is just wrong, it is a major part of his job. When they say the room has tuned out a coach in sports, that is exactly what they are talking about. The players are no longer motivated by said coaches drivel.
 
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Oddbob

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Fair enough, and I'm not trying to shoot the messenger here...

But from a fan perspective, what the heck is the difference?

If right now Detroit was 16-24-8 instead of 12-32-4, and was -32 in goal differential instead of -81, it's not like attendance figures would be shooting through the roof, or merchandise sales would be booming, or the team would be the talk of the town. Because I pulled those numbers from the Ottawa Senators, who are currently the second worst team in the league.

Literally the only factor that gives this team any relevance is their probably of draft position in June. "Fairly awful" versus "historically awful" sit right next to each other in the grand scheme of things. So ride it out, get what you can at the deadline, hope for a great draft and overall offseason, and let's see what happens next October.

In other words, when a team clearly isn't good enough to do anything meaningful in the playoffs, I don't give a crap about anything that happens during the regular season. They're right where they need to be, going for the #1 pick, and I think Yzerman will continue to make good moves to overhaul this mess for however many years it takes.

While I agree to an extent with what you said, sitting through this right now makes it worse, when it is constantly 5-1, 6-1, 5-2 and the like. That said, come the draft we will all pretty much put this whole thing in the back of our minds, the same way Avs fans don't think about 16-17 anymore etc. Problem is that time hasn't arrived yet and it is annoying to lose by so many every night, regardless who's fault it is.
 

jkutswings

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Problem is that time hasn't arrived yet and it is annoying to lose by so many every night, regardless who's fault it is.
I guess that's the part I don't understand.

At this point, every loss is a win. I hated drafting sixth and ninth, because it was being an irrelevant team without landing any game-breaking talent to show for it. I mean I understand that you can't pin your hopes and strategy on landing a #1 pick in a year when that kid may or may not be the next elite of the elite. But there's no way in the world that a guy like Rasmussen, for example, will ever have a ceiling like a Byfield or a Stutzle from this year, or an Andrei Svechnikov from a couple years back.

As for goal differential, 90% of the roster isn't part of the long term solution, so as long as the Larkin's and Hronek's of the team haven't disappeared, that's all that matters for now. Keep cementing last place until Mantha gets healthy and Yzerman hopefully hoodwinks somebody at the deadline, and the rest is just background noise.

This roster desperately needs quality talent, and there isn't a regular season terrible enough that I wouldn't be willing to deal with to chase it.
 

Hen Kolland

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Although pretty much every athlete lacks motivation in a blowout loss, even the greats are sapped of their will to compete in those games. Teams losing by 5 or 6 goals always look like the have given up, because it is hard to stay motivated when everything is going wrong. The lack of desire after being down 5 goals in the Isles game is not on Blashill, but to say that a coaches job is not to motivate players is just wrong, it is a major part of his job. When they say the room has tuned out a coach in sports, that is exactly what they are talking about. The players are no longer motivated by said coaches drivel.

A coach’s influence and motivation is seen over the course of the season, from game to game; individual games with low energy happen for every team under every coach.

What you saw against the Islanders was an example of what happens when a game gets out of hand and the players understand they don’t have the firepower to comeback. They quit, and that’s on the players, not the coach. If we can sit here and admit that this is clearly the least talented team in the league, do you think the players don’t also know this? Surely it’s been a mentally taxing season for them, and when the game got underway and all the sudden they are behind 0-3 and pulled Howard, this entire fan base felt “well, seen this one before, this game is over.” And it looked like the players did the exact same thing.

I don’t disagree that the question “does this coach still have the ear of his team?” can answer the question of the effectiveness of a coach, however I look at the response to the previous game, not the body language in a blowout. Do they look equally defeated when they come out? I’ll ask you. How was the motivation level against the Pens? How was it last night against the Panthers? Results be damned, they quit Tuesday night against the Islanders and got their doors blown off, and the response was playing two highly competitive games against talented playoff teams on back to back nights.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Find it hard to believe Ken Kal would say anything of the sort on air.

Mickey has been known from time to time to let stuff fly. Datsyuk and Kronner not coming back during broadcasts recently. Somebody being hurt or things of that nature he lets out on accident.

Also is interesting in that we know Ken Kal was just given time to do the one on one sit down with Yzerman. I think what the media types are going to find out is that if you let a rumor out with Yzerman it is the last time he will trust you. I could see this going down over the all-star break if he feels he needs to move quicker to secure Gallant. I still sort of trust the Lambert rumors but we will see. I don't think if Kal said it and I wish we could get the audio proof that it is pure speculation. The guys around this team know a lot more on the day to day than a lot of fans understand and a lot of it stays off air. But you have your occasional slip ups, Mickey outing Datsyuk leaving was a rather big recent one.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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I guess that's the part I don't understand.

At this point, every loss is a win. I hated drafting sixth and ninth, because it was being an irrelevant team without landing any game-breaking talent to show for it. I mean I understand that you can't pin your hopes and strategy on landing a #1 pick in a year when that kid may or may not be the next elite of the elite. But there's no way in the world that a guy like Rasmussen, for example, will ever have a ceiling like a Byfield or a Stutzle from this year, or an Andrei Svechnikov from a couple years back.

As for goal differential, 90% of the roster isn't part of the long term solution, so as long as the Larkin's and Hronek's of the team haven't disappeared, that's all that matters for now. Keep cementing last place until Mantha gets healthy and Yzerman hopefully hoodwinks somebody at the deadline, and the rest is just background noise.

This roster desperately needs quality talent, and there isn't a regular season terrible enough that I wouldn't be willing to deal with to chase it.

Larkin is on pace for like 50 points with his possession numbers being way down from last year as well

what do you consider "disappearing"? literal missing persons reports?
 
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