OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion X

[HOPE]

Time for you to catch on mate, they're all on stuff man. Not sure how many more positive tests you need to come out to realize this.

lol theres a shit TON of professional athletes on all sort of PED's in every single sport, people who don't believe that are wearing pink glasses.

 

[Kriss E]

Herb Dean on with Rogan explaining his stoppage in Askren fight.

 

[Kriss E]

So let them get weeded out. No problem.

Guys are using drugs that are likely just going to be detected later in the future. The testing is behind the science, not ahead. There are new drugs and masking agents constantly being developed. It takes time for the testing to catch on to the science and by then, they already moved on to something new.

You have a very naive view of PED usage and testing.

 

[Kriss E]

lol theres a **** TON of professional athletes on all sort of PED's in every single sport, people who don't believe that are wearing pink glasses.

The head of Wada already mentioned he believed 90%, not to say 100, of all Olympians are on PEDs.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Guys are using drugs that are likely just going to be detected later in the future. The testing is behind the science, not ahead. There are new drugs and masking agents constantly being developed. It takes time for the testing to catch on to the science and by then, they already moved on to something new.

You have a very naive view of PED usage and testing.

There's nothing naïve about it.

TJ got caught late but his December sample had EPO. They didn't test it for EPO though. If they had...they would've caught him.

End of the day okay they caught him late and damage is done for this fight but he's not available for 2 years in his prime. That's huge and important.

His legacy and paycheque is tarnished. Naïve or not I'm glad.

I hope same thing happens to the next guy and the guy after that.

If a lot do it, hopefully they all get caught.

 

[Kriss E]

There's nothing naïve about it.

TJ got caught late but his December sample had EPO. They didn't test it for EPO though. If they had...they would've caught him.

End of the day okay they caught him late and damage is done for this fight but he's not available for 2 years in his prime. That's huge and important.

His legacy and paycheque is tarnished. Naïve or not I'm glad.

I hope same thing happens to the next guy and the guy after that.

If a lot do it, hopefully they all get caught.

Ya mate, it's very naive actually.

You realize that there are a bunch of cases they do not disclose to the public right?
There are a lot of athletes who you have no idea about that get an internal pass. End of last year Novitzky said 21 of 62 tested fighters weren't made public because after being flagged they deemed those guys were ''unwillingly'' contaminated.

This idea that hey..whoever is using will test positive and be announced to public..and everyone else is just squeaky clean. There is nothing going on behind the curtains.

Drug testing has never worked. It still doesn't work. It never will work. At this point, given the overwhelming amount of positively tested athletes, I'm not sure why anybody thinks guys are clean.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Ya mate, it's very naive actually.

You realize that there are a bunch of cases they do not disclose to the public right?
There are a lot of athletes who you have no idea about that get an internal pass. End of last year Novitzky said 21 of 62 tested fighters weren't made public because after being flagged they deemed those guys were ''unwillingly'' contaminated.

This idea that hey..whoever is using will test positive and be announced to public..and everyone else is just squeaky clean. There is nothing going on behind the curtains.

Drug testing has never worked. It still doesn't work. It never will work. At this point, given the overwhelming amount of positively tested athletes, I'm not sure why anybody thinks guys are clean.

That rule is new actually. Some guys said they were accused as cheaters but proved their innocence but now have a tarnished reputation. Some fighters threatened to sue if I remember correctly.

In that past they were all announced. In the case of TJ he announced it first himself before USADA so they were allowed to comment on it.

Whether or not the sport is clean is completely irrelevant to whether or not they should continue to enforce rules. People cheat on exams at school, should they just say "f*** it" and allowed people to cheat? You still try to clean the sport. If some fly under the radar that's unfortunate but you don't stop. Even if you claim it doesn't work it caught TJ, Jones and others lately, that's more people than if there was no testing program.

 

[Kriss E]

That rule is new actually. Some guys said they were accused as cheaters but proved their innocence but now have a tarnished reputation. Some fighters threatened to sue if I remember correctly.

In that past they were all announced. In the case of TJ he announced it first himself before USADA so they were allowed to comment on it.

Whether or not the sport is clean is completely irrelevant to whether or not they should continue to enforce rules. People cheat on exams at school, should they just say "**** it" and allowed people to cheat? You still try to clean the sport. If some fly under the radar that's unfortunate but you don't stop. Even if you claim it doesn't work it caught TJ, Jones and others lately, that's more people than if there was no testing program.

That's a new rule. Back in Pride they flat out told fighters what they were testing for. Before in the UFC, if I recall correctly, they reserved the right to divulge who tested positive or not.
Honestly, we really have no single effin clue about what's going on behind the curtain. USADA is better, ya, it still is nowhere near perfect and will never be ahead of the science. So what's the objective here?
What is the point of testing? Is it to catch the ''cheaters''? Of course not. Is it to be used as a deterrent? Well that's obviously a massive fail. So what's the point of these tests? Especially when pretty much everyone agrees 99% of these guys are likely on stuff.

As for your school exams...bad example. You know standardize testing doesn't exists in Finland right? And they're regarded as having one of, if not the, best education system in the world.
So ya, I also think there should be way less tests and make them open book. I think there our education system needs a major reform, so, bad example but that's another matter.


I just don't see what these PED tests accomplish here. They don't prevent fighters from using. They don't make the sport better or safer. So what's the point?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

That's a new rule. Back in Pride they flat out told fighters what they were testing for. Before in the UFC, if I recall correctly, they reserved the right to divulge who tested positive or not.
Honestly, we really have no single effin clue about what's going on behind the curtain. USADA is better, ya, it still is nowhere near perfect and will never be ahead of the science. So what's the objective here?
What is the point of testing? Is it to catch the ''cheaters''? Of course not. Is it to be used as a deterrent? Well that's obviously a massive fail. So what's the point of these tests? Especially when pretty much everyone agrees 99% of these guys are likely on stuff.

As for your school exams...bad example. You know standardize testing doesn't exists in Finland right? And they're regarded as having one of, if not the, best education system in the world.
So ya, I also think there should be way less tests and make them open book. I think there our education system needs a major reform, so, bad example but that's another matter.


I just don't see what these PED tests accomplish here. They don't prevent fighters from using. They don't make the sport better or safer. So what's the point?

UFC Implements New Changes To USADA Policy

The change happened at end of 2018, it's very very new. You didn't dispute it but I'm just sourcing it.

What I am disputing is what you said happens:

You realize that there are a bunch of cases they do not disclose to the public right?
There are a lot of athletes who you have no idea about that get an internal pass. End of last year Novitzky said 21 of 62 tested fighters weren't made public because after being flagged they deemed those guys were ''unwillingly'' contaminated.

The reality:

Per UFC Vice President of Athlete Health and Performance Jeff Novitzky, 21 out of the 62 adjudicated cases under the UFC’s anti-doping program were ultimately deemed “non-intentional use” by USADA. That’s substantial, especially considering those fighters in question had to defend themselves from public scrutiny after unknowingly taking a banned substance.

They WERE public and 21/62 ended up being deemed unintentional. So your whole statement above was wrong. You probably didn't remember correctly but this is in the article I quoted above.

USADA failed to catch TJ earlier not because they weren't ahead on science but that they don't test EPO regularly.

They do prevent fighters from using, what are you talking about? Do you think someone on the fence pre usada would still take now? Look at many fighters who have had their physique change pre and post usada.

Now there's the obvious one. Let's look at TJ. He took PEDs and now he cannot fight. The sport is safer for 2 years. I am unsure how you can dispute this.

If you want to argue if the UFC is perfectly clean then sure, I'm sure there's a lot more to catch. If you want to argue that testing has 0% impact then you're the one who is naïve. Even if 10% of people are caught, it's still 10% caught and others deterred.

 

[Kriss E]

UFC Implements New Changes To USADA Policy

The change happened at end of 2018, it's very very new. You didn't dispute it but I'm just sourcing it.

What I am disputing is what you said happens:



The reality:

Per UFC Vice President of Athlete Health and Performance Jeff Novitzky, 21 out of the 62 adjudicated cases under the UFC’s anti-doping program were ultimately deemed “non-intentional use” by USADA. That’s substantial, especially considering those fighters in question had to defend themselves from public scrutiny after unknowingly taking a banned substance.

They WERE public and 21/62 ended up being deemed unintentional. So your whole statement above was wrong. You probably didn't remember correctly but this is in the article I quoted above.

Thanks for clarification. Nonetheless, point stands, you don't know everything going on behind the curtains.

USADA failed to catch TJ earlier not because they weren't ahead on science but that they don't test EPO regularly.

They are behind the science. It's impossible for them to be ahead. Yes, they don't test for EPO regularly, and I'm sure there's a bunch of other things they don't test regularly or at all. And there's probably a bunch of other things they aren't quite aware of that can help mask peds or improve athletes.

They do prevent fighters from using, what are you talking about? Do you think someone on the fence pre usada would still take now? Look at many fighters who have had their physique change pre and post usada.

What am I talking about?? Lol...Are you not noticing how everyone's getting caught and there is no indication of less and less fighters using? You think there are less Olympians using PEDs too I suppose?? Heck, take TJ. USADA being there didn't stop him from using.

Now there's the obvious one. Let's look at TJ. He took PEDs and now he cannot fight. The sport is safer for 2 years. I am unsure how you can dispute this.

Because you seem to think the guy behind TJ is clean..loll..The sport ain't safer. Cejudo is probably on something himself.
It's like the Armstrong controversy....fine he took PEDs...so were the 10 guys following him.

Dude, these guys are putting their lives at risk. Most of them, fighting is all they have, they have no back up plan. You think they care about what's ''fair''? Lol. I can take some of these PEDs and I'll be so much better, with my strong will and discipline, with the right coaching, I could become a top contender/champion one day and make millions.....Ooooor....I can be ''fair'' and let the guy behind me take those PEDs to become the millionaire Champ, if I'm lucky I'll be able to be part of the main card a couple nights..

Like I said, you and I share completely different views here. You seem to believe that it's so simple..you take roids you're a cheater and everyone that hasn't been caught..is clean.
You think those guys aren't going to risk testing positive if it means possibly becoming Champion and making millions?? They don't give a crap if USADA is there, all it means is they have to be more careful and inventive on how to get away with it.

If you want to argue if the UFC is perfectly clean then sure, I'm sure there's a lot more to catch. If you want to argue that testing has 0% impact then you're the one who is naïve. Even if 10% of people are caught, it's still 10% caught and others deterred.

I think there is 0 deterrence. You don't have any proof of drug testing being a deterrent. I think it has very little impact. It changes nothing. Those guys aren't scared of USADA.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

They actually tested past samples from TJ's piss and blood they found out he was on EPO for his two fights against Cody.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Jesse Ronson is out of tko main event tonight with skin infection. Air Jourdain is fighting Damien Lapilus instead.

 

[mariolemieux66]

Clarissa Shields is fighting tomorrow and is must watch.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

All first three TKO prelim fights have been won by rear naked choke. Taking the back of someone trying to get up must be the most common move in the game.

 

[THE HOFF]

Herb Dean on with Rogan explaining his stoppage in Askren fight.

really enjoyed the video and I always liked herb dean. I understand there is a cutoff line in his head and he would rightfully stop a fight if he thought something could cause severe damage. with video evidence and replays its easy to debate but those guys have a split second to decide and it was a little early but I can't blame him. Just unfortunate for Lawler as some refs would have definitely stopped the fight when he was bouncing askren's head on the canvas.

shame on askren for dodging the rematch. Good on Lawler for having a chance to set the record straight with woodley.

 

[Kriss E]

really enjoyed the video and I always like herb dean. I understand there is a cutoff line in his head and he would rightfully stop a fight if he thought something could cause severe damage. with video evidence and replays its easy to debate but those guys have a split second to decide and it was a little early but I can't blame him. Just unfortunate for Lawler as some refs would have definitely stopped the fight when he was bouncing askren's head on the canvas.

shame on askren for dodging the rematch. Good on Lawler to set things right with woodley.

I cant blame Herb on that stoppage. Lawler can say whatever he wants, his arm went limp. Even if you want to bring your arm done as he said, you dont do it as if its limp.
And then his “thumbs up” instead of speaking...Ya, I dont buy it. Really cant fault Herb, he made the right call imo.

 

[THE HOFF]

I cant blame Herb on that stoppage. Lawler can say whatever he wants, his arm went limp. Even if you want to bring your arm done as he said, you dont do it as if its limp.
And then his “thumbs up” instead of speaking...Ya, I dont buy it. Really cant fault Herb, he made the right call imo.

made the right call because he was influenced earlier in his career by a similar choke. His experiences are valuable and he had seen a situation when a guy got out and couldn't move, which was clearly not Lawler's case. Its not an exact science, with his experience you have to respect that call. Just unfortunate for Lawler.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Charles Jourdain now has two belts, best prospect to come out of the province since OAM. Pretty sure his TKO days are over, he's gonna get the call from the UFC.

Can see him reach the top-15 in the 145lbs. Also the first non-Tri star alumni to even have a shot at the UFC since Patrick Côté, as M-A Barriault trained at Tri star for his last fight.

 

[BeastMode420]

The head of Wada already mentioned he believed 90%, not to say 100, of all Olympians are on PEDs.

But GSP is the exception to the norm lmao couch potatoes are so delusional

 

[LyricalLyricist]

They actually tested past samples from TJ's piss and blood they found out he was on EPO for his two fights against Cody.

Are you sure?

It says they tested a december sample before his Cejudo fight, not the Cody ones.

Unless something changed but all i say is cody asking for them to be re-tested, not that they have been.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Are you sure?

It says they tested a december sample before his Cejudo fight, not the Cody ones.

Unless something changed but all i say is cody asking for them to be re-tested, not that they have been.

As per Joe Rogan in his Herb Dean podcast.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I cant blame Herb on that stoppage. Lawler can say whatever he wants, his arm went limp. Even if you want to bring your arm done as he said, you dont do it as if its limp.
And then his “thumbs up” instead of speaking...Ya, I dont buy it. Really cant fault Herb, he made the right call imo.

Are people still questioning that call ? Herb just did his job guys, let it go. Lawler isn't even mad about it at this point, he knows that was the right heat of the moment decision to make. If you're not out you have to make it REAL clear to the ref cause it's his job to save your brain cells in the end .

 

[LyricalLyricist]

As per Joe Rogan in his Herb Dean podcast.

Probably a mistake. Last I read usada told Cody no.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

White: Brock Lesnar MIA, Daniel Cormier vs. Stipe Miocic possibly next
Dana is apparently finally calling Brock's bluff and moving away from him as an option for DC, which means Stipe may very well get his rematch this summer.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

White: Brock Lesnar MIA, Daniel Cormier vs. Stipe Miocic possibly next
Dana is apparently finally calling Brock's bluff and moving away from him as an option for DC, which means Stipe may very well get his rematch this summer.

Stipe shouldn't get a rematch.

I'm not a huge Tyron Woodley fan but even he already accepted another fight to earn an opportunity and he wasn't finished and had more defenses.

Stipe will end up inactive for over a year. I would've liked to see him take a fight, any fight and campaign that way.

Ngannou KO'd two guys in less than a minute since UFC 226 when Stipe lost his belt. JDS won 3 fights since that day. Both guys are taking a FOURTH fight before Stipe even fights once.