OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion X

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Mike Mike Caron

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3-2 Jones? What 3 rounds did he win?? He clearly lost round 1-2 round 3 was close and round 4 as well. Round 5 was clearly a Santos round. That’s minimum 3 rounds to 2.

He DID beat the champ, and it was clear. That’s why everyone was booing Jones, cause he lost.

So tell me what rounds did Jones win??

Jones won round 3 and 4 more clearly than Santos won the first rounds. Round 5 was a toss, Jones looked a bit better than Santos. Overall, Jones had a better fight than Santos too.

Is it you first UFC? Even Santos was stunned and puzzle when the first judge gave him the fight.

We all want Jones to loose, last night wasn't that night.
 

Guns n Roses

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Jones won round 3 and 4 more clearly than Santos won the first rounds. Round 5 was a toss, Jones looked a bit better than Santos. Overall, Jones had a better fight than Santos too.

Is it you first UFC? Even Santos was stunned and puzzle when the first judge gave him the fight.

We all want Jones to loose, last night wasn't that night.
You’re blind. How was round 5 a toss up? Jones cowards away every time Santos throws strikes, Jones couldn’t handle the strikes, all he did was move around. 1 smart judge out of 3 is what it came down to. The other 2 judges should change profession or change their lense prescription.
 

Mike Mike Caron

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You’re blind. How was round 5 a toss up? Jones cowards away every time Santos throws strikes, Jones couldn’t handle the strikes, all he did was move around. 1 smart judge out of 3 is what it came down to. The other 2 judges should change profession or change their lense prescription.

Jones touched Santos more in the 5th round. Re-watch the round, Jones did more than Santos in the first two minutes, then Santos attacked but it did nothing. It's not really a debate.

But you also said Santos won round 4, id suggest you watch the whole fight a second time. Santos could've won, but the right decision was made.
 

c3z4r

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I had it 3-2 Santos too (1-2-5 vs Jones' 3-4), but the rounds Santos won weren't as convincingly as those Jones did so I have no issues with giving it to either guy since both can make an argument. We've seen waaaay worse robberies in the octagon in favor of the champs.

Although I gotta say the judges decisions are beyond baffling. I don't know if they're paid off or what, but they had 2 of them give R4 to Santos which makes me question if UFC doesn't have some hidden criteria they use to judge fights, since I don't think Santos did

D-2P1vBU0AA8804.jpg:large
 

pistolpete11

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Anyone who thinks that was 'bullshit' is just upset their guy didn't win. It was really close and both guys could have done more. Unfortunately for Santos, his leg was hurt, but that doesn't and shouldn't come into the scores.

Honestly, if they rematch down the line, I think Jones will smash him. He said he wanted to beat him at what he's best at. He got the win doing it that way. Next time (if there is a next time), I think Jones takes him down and beats the brakes off him. Similar to Jones-Gus. First fight was an extremely close stand up fight. Second one, Jones took him down and finished him.

Next up, though, I think it is Jones-DC/Stipe.
 

BehindTheTimes

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I had it 3-2 Santos too (1-2-5 vs Jones' 3-4), but the rounds Santos won weren't as convincingly as those Jones did so I have no issues with giving it to either guy since both can make an argument. We've seen waaaay worse robberies in the octagon in favor of the champs.

Although I gotta say the judges decisions are beyond baffling. I don't know if they're paid off or what, but they had 2 of them give R4 to Santos which makes me question if UFC doesn't have some hidden criteria they use to judge fights, since I don't think Santos did

D-2P1vBU0AA8804.jpg:large

The only decisive round for Jones was round 3.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Anyone who thinks that was 'bull****' is just upset their guy didn't win. It was really close and both guys could have done more. Unfortunately for Santos, his leg was hurt, but that doesn't and shouldn't come into the scores.

Honestly, if they rematch down the line, I think Jones will smash him. He said he wanted to beat him at what he's best at. He got the win doing it that way. Next time (if there is a next time), I think Jones takes him down and beats the brakes off him. Similar to Jones-Gus. First fight was an extremely close stand up fight. Second one, Jones took him down and finished him.

Next up, though, I think it is Jones-DC/Stipe.

I think Jones was feeling the leg kicks and got a taste of Santos' power early and was reluctant to go for the take down. I don't buy this "beat him at his own game" crap. He looked terrible against a guy on one leg who we now know tore every ligament in his left knee by a freak accident on a kick that wasn't checked by Jones.
 

LyricalLyricist

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Anyone who thinks that was 'bull****' is just upset their guy didn't win. It was really close and both guys could have done more. Unfortunately for Santos, his leg was hurt, but that doesn't and shouldn't come into the scores.

Honestly, if they rematch down the line, I think Jones will smash him. He said he wanted to beat him at what he's best at. He got the win doing it that way. Next time (if there is a next time), I think Jones takes him down and beats the brakes off him. Similar to Jones-Gus. First fight was an extremely close stand up fight. Second one, Jones took him down and finished him.

Next up, though, I think it is Jones-DC/Stipe.

I'm not sure I would call it 'bullshit' per say but I find Dana's reaction where he said Jones won 'easily' to be bullshit.
 

LyricalLyricist

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I think Jones was feeling the leg kicks and got a taste of Santos' power early and was reluctant to go for the take down. I don't buy this "beat him at his own game" crap. He looked terrible against a guy on one leg who we now know tore every ligament in his left knee by a freak accident on a kick that wasn't checked by Jones.

I agree. I don't buy this "Jon wanted to test himself" shit.

They both had injured legs and Jon feared his power. He was running even in last seconds of the fight.

I really wonder how fight goes without Thiago's freak accident. Then again, Jones is so smart he'll be better next time too.
 

Kriss E

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I think Jones was feeling the leg kicks and got a taste of Santos' power early and was reluctant to go for the take down. I don't buy this "beat him at his own game" crap. He looked terrible against a guy on one leg who we now know tore every ligament in his left knee by a freak accident on a kick that wasn't checked by Jones.
Not sure how that makes sense though..
If you fear the power and stand up game of a fighter, the last thing you do is try to stand up with him.
 
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Kriss E

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I agree. I don't buy this "Jon wanted to test himself" ****.

They both had injured legs and Jon feared his power. He was running even in last seconds of the fight.

I really wonder how fight goes without Thiago's freak accident. Then again, Jones is so smart he'll be better next time too.
So what was the strategy behind not going for takedowns?
 

BehindTheTimes

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Not sure how that makes sense though..
If you fear the power and stand up game of a fighter, the last thing you do is try to stand up with him.

He didn't want to eat shots to secure the takedown imo. Everytime he got close to a clinch, Santos exploded.
 

BehindTheTimes

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I agree. I don't buy this "Jon wanted to test himself" ****.

They both had injured legs and Jon feared his power. He was running even in last seconds of the fight.

I really wonder how fight goes without Thiago's freak accident. Then again, Jones is so smart he'll be better next time too.

Jones is a special fighter, I think in a rematch he likely makes adjustments and wins decisively. His fight IQ is off the charts.
However, in this fight, he looked pretty bad. The fact that he got beat by a one legged man in this fight imo shows the guy is not completely invincible like many thought.
 

pistolpete11

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I think Jones was feeling the leg kicks and got a taste of Santos' power early and was reluctant to go for the take down. I don't buy this "beat him at his own game" crap. He looked terrible against a guy on one leg who we now know tore every ligament in his left knee by a freak accident on a kick that wasn't checked by Jones.

I agree. I don't buy this "Jon wanted to test himself" ****.

They both had injured legs and Jon feared his power. He was running even in last seconds of the fight.

I really wonder how fight goes without Thiago's freak accident. Then again, Jones is so smart he'll be better next time too.
That doesn't make sense, though. If he feared the power that much, then he would take him down where that power is basically neutralized and he has a big advantage. I don't even remember him shooting for a takedown, so I think pretty clearly his plan was to stand with Santos.

I'm not sure I would call it 'bull****' per say but I find Dana's reaction where he said Jones won 'easily' to be bull****.
Well, a lot of what Dana says is bullshit, but that doesn't make Santos fans (or more likely Jones haters) right for saying the decision was bullshit. It was a close fight.
 

pistolpete11

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He didn't want to eat shots to secure the takedown imo. Everytime he got close to a clinch, Santos exploded.
If you eat shots while securing a takedown, it's not a very good takedown. You need to set them up with your strikes. Something Jon is more than capable of. If he wanted to go to the ground, he would have shot at some point, but he didn't. His plan was to stand with Santos.
 

BehindTheTimes

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If you eat shots while securing a takedown, it's not a very good takedown. You need to set them up with your strikes. Something Jon is more than capable of. If he wanted to go to the ground, he would have shot at some point, but he didn't. His plan was to stand with Santos.

Lets agree o disagree.
 

LyricalLyricist

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So what was the strategy behind not going for takedowns?

That doesn't make sense, though. If he feared the power that much, then he would take him down where that power is basically neutralized and he has a big advantage. I don't even remember him shooting for a takedown, so I think pretty clearly his plan was to stand with Santos.


Well, a lot of what Dana says is bull****, but that doesn't make Santos fans (or more likely Jones haters) right for saying the decision was bull****. It was a close fight.

Who knows why or why he didn't but one here said "props to Jones for not taking advantage of Santos" and now it's "He wanted to fight at Thiago's game"

There could be a lot of factors but i doubt squeezing out a split decision was his plan. Jones needed more help leaving the cage than santos, santos has more power, santos is both a black belt in Muay Thai(probably has good knees in a clinch) and BJJ.

Jones was SO comfortable on the feet apparently. Let's look at the stats:

Jones threw 287 strikes against Smith, 238 landed. He threw 90 at Santos, 59 landed.

Ray Longo(Coach of Iaquinta and others) suggested Jones looked flat and "maybe he's off the PEDs". I wouldn't speculate like that myself BUT his performance was lacking for sure.

If you REALLY think his plan is to beat people at their own game I'd love to see him beat Ngannou at his own game too.

Jones just didn't do enough and seemed reluctant to charge. A lot of the fight was in kicking range.

On an unrelated note, I also think the points Jones likely got for being the 'aggresor' and 'applying pressure/control' is bullshit.

While Santos landed slightly less he threw power shots and attempted nearly double the strikes. Seems like an odd thing to give someone credit for standing and not throwing. Either way, it wasn't a blowout either way. Shit happens. Jones is a supreme fighter and in a rematch he'd probably smoke Santos.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Control and pressuring the fighter is least valuable scoring criteria, and is only looked at when everything else is equal.

You're right it was bullshit.
 

MD thaivuN

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If you eat shots while securing a takedown, it's not a very good takedown. You need to set them up with your strikes. Something Jon is more than capable of. If he wanted to go to the ground, he would have shot at some point, but he didn't. His plan was to stand with Santos.

Jon Jones isn't a particularly good at setting up takedowns by himself. His game relies on people fearing the reach and wanting to force on the inside, where he can work the clinch. On fights where he actively tried to take people down by himself, he struggles to get people on the mat. Jones has rarely ever fought an actual long range kickboxer like Santos and it showed he wasn't sure how to deal with that.
 
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LyricalLyricist

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Control and pressuring the fighter is least valuable scoring criteria, and is only looked at when everything else is equal.

You're right it was bull****.

Well to be fair pressure and control is valuable IMO but I don't think Jones should be credited for it. How can you be credited with pressure if other guy's leg is destroyed and he's still throwing more strikes than you? Seems moronic and I'm sure Jones got credit for that in some cases.

Whatever, whats done is done.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Well to be fair pressure and control is valuable IMO but I don't think Jones should be credited for it. How can you be credited with pressure if other guy's leg is destroyed and he's still throwing more strikes than you? Seems moronic and I'm sure Jones got credit for that in some cases.

Whatever, whats done is done.

Sure, it's valuable, but in the official scoring rules it isn't even looked at unless everything else is equal. Santos landed the biggest shots. Some rounds Jones barely threw at all.
 

Kriss E

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Who knows why or why he didn't but one here said "props to Jones for not taking advantage of Santos" and now it's "He wanted to fight at Thiago's game"

There could be a lot of factors but i doubt squeezing out a split decision was his plan. Jones needed more help leaving the cage than santos, santos has more power, santos is both a black belt in Muay Thai(probably has good knees in a clinch) and BJJ.

Jones was SO comfortable on the feet apparently. Let's look at the stats:

Jones threw 287 strikes against Smith, 238 landed. He threw 90 at Santos, 59 landed.

Ray Longo(Coach of Iaquinta and others) suggested Jones looked flat and "maybe he's off the PEDs". I wouldn't speculate like that myself BUT his performance was lacking for sure.

If you REALLY think his plan is to beat people at their own game I'd love to see him beat Ngannou at his own game too.

Jones just didn't do enough and seemed reluctant to charge. A lot of the fight was in kicking range.

On an unrelated note, I also think the points Jones likely got for being the 'aggresor' and 'applying pressure/control' is bull****.

While Santos landed slightly less he threw power shots and attempted nearly double the strikes. Seems like an odd thing to give someone credit for standing and not throwing. Either way, it wasn't a blowout either way. **** happens. Jones is a supreme fighter and in a rematch he'd probably smoke Santos.
All this talk of Santos being hurt but you just said yourself Jones needed more help leaving the cage...yet...nobody talks about how hurt Jones was and how that likely impacted his performance.

Jones needed a wheelchair to get to post fight presser yet people criticize him for not taking advantage of a hurt opponent, well, he visibly was also very hurt.

To read this thread, it's as if Jones sat back doing very little and was a bitch for not destroying Santos.
 
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