OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion VIII

[Kriss E]

Why not? Rules are rules.

It does not matter what your stance is on PEDs. It's not part of the rules and gives an advantage, that simple.

Jones is a massive repeat offender. Whether or not he's the greatest, I'd argue he cannot play by the rules of his contract and should not be in the octagon.

He's had criminal issues outside of the octagon, does play not play by the rules either.

He was flagged for anomalies in UFC 182 where he beat DC
Kicked out of UFC 200 where he was scheduled to face DC
Was found with steroids in his body at UFC 214 weigh ins...again vs DC

USADA started in the UFC July 1st, 2015.

Jones fought UFC 197
Jones was caught with PEDs UFC 200
Jones was caught with PEDS UFC 214

The guy had 3 scheduled fights since USADA came in, he couldn't make it to one and failed another next. He's at 33% success of following rules since USADA came into UFC.

Yeah, you may be for or against steroid use but it's against the rules. I may think throwing the puck into the net with your hands is a goal but it isn't. That's the rules.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones lose vs Gus if he's clean. We'll see.

Euh...not sure how that works as an analogy. Some hockey players have used PEDs and tested positive, not sure what throwing the puck into the net has to do with anything. Ya, it's disallowed. So? If Lemieux did that, does this mean he isn't one of the greatest anymore?
Did Jon Bones use a sword or a new weapon?

The idea that using PEDs suddenly makes you a better fighter is all Jean Claude Van Damne Universal Soldier style. Give him a drug and suddenly he becomes a super fighter.
Do PEDs help? Of course they do. Are they the difference between a champ and a nobody? I don't think so.
Should you have an asterisk next to your name? Absolutely. Should your name be removed entirely? Absolutely not.
The idea that all the hard work, effort, practice, and fight dominance should just be 100% voided and unrecognized because of PEDs is just ignorant to me.

You put GOAT names in the discussion, and the one who never tested positive has an advantage. GSP or Jones, then GSP no question, but should A.Silva and J.Jones not even part of the conversation?...Of course they should.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Euh...not sure how that works as an analogy. Some hockey players have used PEDs and tested positive, not sure what throwing the puck into the net has to do with anything. Ya, it's disallowed. So? If Lemieux did that, does this mean he isn't one of the greatest anymore?
Did Jon Bones use a sword or a new weapon?

The idea that using PEDs suddenly makes you a better fighter is all Jean Claude Van Damne Universal Soldier style. Give him a drug and suddenly he becomes a super fighter.
Do PEDs help? Of course they do. Are they the difference between a champ and a nobody? I don't think so.
Should you have an asterisk next to your name? Absolutely. Should your name be removed entirely? Absolutely not.
The idea that all the hard work, effort, practice, and fight dominance should just be 100% voided and unrecognized because of PEDs is just ignorant to me.

You put GOAT names in the discussion, and the one who never tested positive has an advantage. GSP or Jones, then GSP no question, but should A.Silva and J.Jones not even part of the conversation?...Of course they should.

But who has claimed PEDs are difference between champ and nobody? GSP didn't claim that, neither did I.

I'm saying it's A) Cheating, B) Helps you.

When Jones faced Gus it was a close brawl. Without PEDs could Jones have lost? Why not?

We're not talking a guy going from undercard to GOAT. We're saying difference between being champ and not or difference between being undefeated champ and not at very least.

What makes Jones special is he's constantly caught. It's ridiculous. It's not a * like 'oh maybe he did'. It's...yeah...he did.

 

[Kriss E]

I didn't see the part where they tried to deport him afterwards. All I've seen is your first part. He wasn't immediately seen as unreliable, he did the job a long time. Eventually, they saw no more use for him and Ali had already secured his get out of jail free card for doing the work.

You know, you claim I appeal to authority(Pulitzer prize journalists) but you are aware your source is...reddit. You do realize that right?

Again, I hope Ali is a great guy. I don't know him personally, why should I hope for anything bad? If this is true it's bad, not good! Thing is this is what has been investigated. If it is wrong perfect but appealing to reddit posts isn't exactly encouraging.

I'm not using reddit as a source, I think it's crap. I just said I read it from there, but I don't give it much credence.

I said it early on. I think this discussion is silly. I think we know close to nothing about this.
I also find it rather ironic people are questioning this guy for being a terrorist....informant...I mean, isn't that an actual good thing?

Personally don't think AA is a good guy, he sounds like a very shaddy guy, I was just saying this terrorist crap is way overstated given the facts we actually have.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I'm not using reddit as a source, I think it's crap. I just said I read it from there, but I don't give it much credence.

I said it early on. I think this discussion is silly. I think we know close to nothing about this.
I also find it rather ironic people are questioning this guy for being a terrorist....informant...I mean, isn't that an actual good thing?

Personally don't think AA is a good guy, he sounds like a very shaddy guy, I was just saying this terrorist crap is way overstated given the facts we actually have.

Depends what the story is.

IF you're a terrorist informant who cannot be trusted then...no it's not a good thing.

If he were a legit terrorist they would've never give him a chance. He had terrorist ties. McGregor claims(I have no way to back this up but throwing it out there for discussion) Ali was found with fake passports on 9/11. Is that true? Eh, no clue.

 

[Kriss E]

But who has claimed PEDs are difference between champ and nobody? GSP didn't claim that, neither did I.

I'm saying it's A) Cheating, B) Helps you.

When Jones faced Gus it was a close brawl. Without PEDs could Jones have lost? Why not?

We're not talking a guy going from undercard to GOAT. We're saying difference between being champ and not or difference between being undefeated champ and not at very least.

What makes Jones special is he's constantly caught. It's ridiculous. It's not a * like 'oh maybe he did'. It's...yeah...he did.

Ya, maybe he would have lost. Could Jones have beat him easily if he was out binge partying like 5 days prior? Possibly.
Fact is he beat him. Close brawl? Meh. Earned unanimous decision.

And was discussing part of discussion, or not, as GOAT.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Ya, maybe he would have lost. Could Jones have beat him easily if he was out binge partying like 5 days prior? Possibly.
Fact is he beat him. Close brawl? Meh. Earned unanimous decision.

And was discussing part of discussion, or not, as GOAT.

Jones claimed to be partying before DC not Gus.

We've talked about how DC isn't amongst GOAT because he couldn't beat JJ. What if the difference between PED and not allows him to? Stuff like this changes a lot.

 

[Kriss E]

Depends what the story is.

IF you're a terrorist informant who cannot be trusted then...no it's not a good thing.

If he were a legit terrorist they would've never give him a chance. He had terrorist ties. McGregor claims(I have no way to back this up but throwing it out there for discussion) Ali was found with fake passports on 9/11. Is that true? Eh, no clue.

1) I agree with the “no clue”, which is what I responded to and mentioned how it wasn't a fact.
2) what does “unreliable terrorist informant” mean? If it's feeding them BS info and protecting the group...wouldn't they just out him in Jail like Guantanamo? If he has no valuable info then doesn't it mean he's essentially has no ties?....

No matter what it is, something just doesn't add up with the info that's out there.

 

[Goodbahd]

Oh man, you're so naive. There is so much BS in books. How do you think propaganda works??
You think everything written in alt-right books is true too I suppose??

Every author is 100% correct.
Every book is 100% true.

You honestly have such a simpleton and naive view of things.
Also, again, maybe AA did negotiate a form of compensation that is confendential. Or, maybe he didn't even know he was mentioned in that book. Maybe he was a terrorist snitch in the form that the neighbour of his sister's half brother's uncle was allegedly part of a terrorist faction. Maybe it was later revealed he had no ties with any terrorists and he was using this to get out of a theft or felony charge. Maybe they just assumed he was a terrorist because he forged an ID.

Basically, we don't know jack ****ing ****, and for the record, I was never defending AA. As you said, when there's smoke there's fire, so he's a very shaddy character. I was simply correcting you on your misunderstanding of what facts, speculations and opinions are.

It’s about an individual’s shady past. The authors obtained credible information to write their book.

You’re incoherently throwing around words like “propaganda” and how books are “bs”. You’ve clearly taken this so deep too heart that you feel intensely emotionally compelled to defend Abdelaziz. Do you have a picture of him in your wallet or something? You need to relax.

 

[Kriss E]

Jones claimed to be partying before DC not Gus.

We've talked about how DC isn't amongst GOAT because he couldn't beat JJ. What if the difference between PED and not allows him to? Stuff like this changes a lot.

Jones also said it about before the Gus fight. Said it recently on Rogan's podcast.

What if..ya...we can play that game all night. Fact is DC lost.
It's not just the losses, it's his overall fight resume. If he sticks around to add to it, then maybe he can join. But to me he has no business being mentioned with GSP, Silva and Fedor.

 

[Kriss E]

It’s about an individual’s shady past. The authors obtained credible information to write their book.

You’re incoherently throwing around words like “propaganda” and how books are “bs”. You’ve clearly taken this so deep too heart that you feel intensely emotionally compelled to defend Abdelaziz. Do you have a picture of him in your wallet or something? You need to relax.

Ya you got me buddy...I have a heart shaped picture of him in a locket around my neck...

 

[Goodbahd]

Ya you got me buddy...I have a heart shaped picture of him in a locket around my neck...

Don’t pretend like you don’t.

 

[Kriss E]

Don’t pretend like you don’t.

Totally.