Prospect Info: General Prospect Discussion Thread 2019-20 - Part III

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thestonedkoala

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MSL didn't become a full time NHLer until he was traded to Tampa Bay two seasons later....and he still didn't make a real impact until '03 season when he went over 30 goals for the first time.

Just to correct you, MSL played 56 games for the Flames in 99-00
 

Olcoach

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I don't think anyone has expectations that Mayhew is going to be an NHL star....only that he has earned the right to get serious consideration for a NHL roster spot and the best way to do that is to give him more than just the 7 games he's gotten.
40 goal scorer next year for the big club, book it. Lol
 

AKL

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I'd have no problem sitting Greenway or Donato down. Maybe put together a Mayhew - Kunin/Eriksson Ek - Zuccarello line.

How long would you give him to figure it out and contribute before you pulled the plug?
 

Dr Jan Itor

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How long would you give him to figure it out and contribute before you pulled the plug?

Playing those minutes, I'd probably go with 5 game checkpoints. If he's a ghost in the first 5, then back down he goes. If he's noticeable but not producing a whole lot, then maybe extend it another 5 games to see if the points starting coming. If he produces from the start, then ride it out for as long as it goes.
 

thestonedkoala

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On other note; how is Shawn Bourdias and Damien Giroux actually doing? Like has anyone seen them play? They are putting up some good numbers (Bourdias also has some size), but outside of just numbers- haven't heard a peep about them.
 

TaLoN

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I'd have no problem sitting Greenway or Donato down. Maybe put together a Mayhew - Kunin/Eriksson Ek - Zuccarello line.
Neither of which opens a top 6 spot since Zucker and Parise are the top 6 left wingers.

Greenway has played well in a shutdown role with Ek... there's a reason Bruce has been running with Greenway-Ek-Foligno for a while, they've played well in their role.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Neither of which opens a top 6 spot since Zucker and Parise are the top 6 left wingers.

Greenway has played well in a shutdown role with Ek... there's a reason Bruce has been running with Greenway-Ek-Foligno for a while, they've played well in their role.

I'd have numerous changes to Bruce's lineup, aside from this specific one, so who is currently in what spot/role wouldn't really prevent anything.
 

MuckOG

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Just to correct you, MSL played 56 games for the Flames in 99-00

You asked about players that were 26 or older that stuck with their team and made an impact. During the '99-'00 season, MSL was shipped back and forth between the NHL and AHL. He didn't "stick" with a team until he was traded to Tampa Bay....and even then it took him a few seasons to become the scorer that he became,
 

Dr Jan Itor

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What would you're lineup look like?

Something like:

Zucker - Staal - Fiala
Mayhew - Eriksson Ek - Zuccarello
Parise - Kunin - Greenway/Donato
Foligno - Koivu - Hartman

Or you could swap Kunin and Donato, bump Greenway down and push Hartman out of the lineup. Or, hell, put Mayhew with Staal and Fiala. Try and catch some lightning.
 

TaLoN

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Something like:

Zucker - Staal - Fiala
Mayhew - Eriksson Ek - Zuccarello
Parise - Kunin - Greenway/Donato
Foligno - Koivu - Hartman

Or you could swap Kunin and Donato, bump Greenway down and push Hartman out of the lineup. Or, hell, put Mayhew with Staal and Fiala. Try and catch some lightning.
Question. What has Parise done to be down on the 3rd line? He's been one of our best forwards night in and night out for quite some time.

Another question, how long would you give Mayhew if he looks no better than a lesser version of Fontaine like last time?
 

MuckOG

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Question. What has Parise done to be down on the 3rd line? He's been one of our best forwards night in and night out for quite some time.

Another question, how long would you give Mayhew if he looks no better than a lesser version of Fontaine like last time?

Swap Parise and Zucker then.

I'd give Mayhew at least 10 games.
 

TaLoN

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Swap Parise and Zucker then.

I'd give Mayhew at least 10 games.
If you're going to give him 10 games, like I said, it's not going to happen until after we're eliminated from the playoffs. A team trying to make the playoffs couldn't afford that low level of play in their top 6 that long.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Question. What has Parise done to be down on the 3rd line? He's been one of our best forwards night in and night out for quite some time.

Another question, how long would you give Mayhew if he looks no better than a lesser version of Fontaine like last time?

I answered question #2 in post #130.

I just like Zucker more than Parise, and I prefer to have the 30+ year olds on separate lines.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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If you're going to give him 10 games, like I said, it's not going to happen until after we're eliminated from the playoffs. A team trying to make the playoffs couldn't afford that low level of play in their top 6 that long.

Assuming that the level of play is low.
 

TaLoN

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Assuming that the level of play is low.
That was my question... if he continues to play like a lesser version of Fontaine (which is what he looked like last time he was here), how long would you give him before pulling the plug?

It points out why such an extended look isn't likely coming until after we're eliminated. If he were called up today, and he doesn't look good in the first game, he's not likely getting a second because we can't afford to have players playing bad if we want to make the playoffs... which the coach and players clearly do... and the ultimatum from the GM clearly implies he wants them to.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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That was my question... if he continues to play like a lesser version of Fontaine (which is what he looked like last time he was here), how long would you give him before pulling the plug?

It points out why such an extended look isn't likely coming until after we're eliminated. If he were called up today, and he doesn't look good in the first game, he's not likely getting a second because we can't afford to have players playing bad if we want to make the playoffs... which the coach and players clearly do... and the ultimatum from the GM clearly implies he wants them to.

I never actually said that we should call him up tomorrow. Waiting until after we're eliminated, or after Zucker is traded, are viable options.
 

TaLoN

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I never actually said that we should call him up tomorrow. Waiting until after we're eliminated, or after Zucker is traded, are viable options.
Others have, and that's where I was basing my discussion from when I made the comments I did. You then respond to those comments, leading me to respond, and thus we ended up here. ;)

This all goes back to people asking why they haven't been called up and given extended looks yet. We're not in position to do so. Mayhew had his chance in his 7 game call up and didn't even last the game in the top 6 before being demoted to the 4th line.

The arguement was, he needs an extended look, what's the harm? We can't afford it yet.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Others have, and that's where I was basing my discussion from when I made the comments I did. You then respond to those comments, leading me to respond, and thus we ended up here. ;)

It was AKL that brought up the "right now" thing.

My biggest pushback on this whole is connecting 'Mayhew not currently being in the NHL' with 'no chance that Mayhew could succeed in the NHL' just because it's rare. And the fact that Erik Westrum existed doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
 

TaLoN

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It was AKL that brought up the "right now" thing.

My biggest pushback on this whole is connecting 'Mayhew not currently being in the NHL' with 'no chance that Mayhew could succeed in the NHL' just because it's rare. And the fact that Erik Westrum existed doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
I NEVER said no chance. I said unlikely. I said, I'm keeping my expectations low because of how unlikely. If he has success, pure bonus IMO, I'm just not pining for it to happen.

I hope he gets his chance eventually, I'm just not expecting much to come of it. That's all I've ever said.

And I think it's been @57special that's been asking repeatedly for the call up and did again, that launched this whole line of discussion after you pointed out their success in this thread last night.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Question. What has Parise done to be down on the 3rd line? He's been one of our best forwards night in and night out for quite some time.

Another question, how long would you give Mayhew if he looks no better than a lesser version of Fontaine like last time?

Did a little digging on this. In the 14 games since the calendar turned to 2020, Parise has 2 even-strength points, which ranks 10th on the team as far as forwards go. He has those 2 points in almost 178 minutes of even-strength ice time, which ranks 3rd on the team during that stretch. One of those points was a goal against Pittsburgh (3 weeks ago), late in the 2nd, when we were already trailing 4-0. You actually have to go back to December 17th to find his last even-strength goal that was meaningful (a late extra attacker goal against Vegas to cut their lead to 3-2). He has made his hay on the power play, which he could continue to do, regardless of the line he plays on.
 

TaLoN

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Did a little digging on this. In the 14 games since the calendar turned to 2020, Parise has 2 even-strength points, which ranks 10th on the team as far as forwards go. He has those 2 points in almost 178 minutes of even-strength ice time, which ranks 3rd on the team during that stretch. One of those points was a goal against Pittsburgh (3 weeks ago), late in the 2nd, when we were already trailing 4-0. You actually have to go back to December 17th to find his last even-strength goal that was meaningful (a late extra attacker goal against Vegas to cut their lead to 3-2). He has made his hay on the power play, which he could continue to do, regardless of the line he plays on.
AKL just last night was talking about how all the offense comes from whatever line Fiala is on....I pointed out that the line Zach is on puts on a lot of pressure most every night and gets great chances too... then he also pointed out even strength points as a counter arguement.

I then pointed out last night's points all came on the PP, so that means no line is generating offensive chances huh? Of course not! They're still putting on great pressure as a line!

I get it, even strength points are an indicator, but not the only indicator. You can still play great offensively at even strength, yet the ones that happen to go in are on the PP.

Great even strength play often creates power plays too. Zach does a lot of that creating, as does Fiala. Fiala is our best forward, but Zach has been our 2nd best for a while and it's not close.

The chances and pressure he puts on the offensive zone speaks for itself.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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AKL just last night was talking about how all the offense comes from whatever line Fiala is on....I pointed out that the line Zach is on puts on a lot of pressure most every night and gets great chances too... then he also pointed out even strength points as a counter arguement.

I then pointed out last night's points all came on the PP, so that means no line is generating offensive chances huh? Of course not! They're still putting on great pressure as a line!

I get it, even strength points are an indicator, but not the only indicator. You can still play great offensively at even strength, yet the ones that happen to go in are on the PP.

Great even strength play often creates power plays too. Zach does a lot of that creating, as does Fiala. Fiala is our best forward, but Zach has been our 2nd best for a while and it's not close.

The chances and pressure he puts on the offensive zone speaks for itself.

As long as the other team doesn't have their full assortment of players on the ice, then you're probably right.
 

P10p

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Lol I like how people know Mayhews' play style after a 7 game cup of coffee with under 10 minutes average TOI over those 7 games. Often paired with offensive juggernauts and Wild top guns Gabriel Dumont and Victor Rask. I'd be perfectly comfortable sitting Donato to give Mayhew 10 games minimum. Same with Greenway. Guy is scoring at close to a goal a game clip. You gotta try and bottle up that confidence and see if he can produce, given a shot.
 
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