OT: General OT Thread #41: Do We Have To Go With Skoula?

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00xtremeninja

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so, not that i expect free legal advice, but

non-compete clauses in contracts (and soon to be expired, like in 12 hours) are pretty much a joke right? I am moving on from my current place of employment and will be not far from where i currently am. The guy that owns this place is a hothead and I could see him threaten to sue me (won't go through with it, I know deep down he doesn't have the money to do it) but if he does, it's kind of meh anyways. At least from what I have heard.
 

Wabit

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May 23, 2016
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so, not that i expect free legal advice, but

non-compete clauses in contracts (and soon to be expired, like in 12 hours) are pretty much a joke right? I am moving on from my current place of employment and will be not far from where i currently am. The guy that owns this place is a hothead and I could see him threaten to sue me (won't go through with it, I know deep down he doesn't have the money to do it) but if he does, it's kind of meh anyways. At least from what I have heard.

Violating a non-compete clause, depending on the terms in your contract, is a breach of contract and you can be sued. It's not always a matter of winning or losing in court, it's getting it on record as you violating the terms. If he does sue you and he wins, you could be required to pay all of his legal fees as part of the judgement. Lawyers do take cases if they have a good chance of cashing in after the trial.

It can lead to blackballing in certain industries. If you're on record as not honoring these terms, it makes it really easy to just toss your resume in the garbage can when it hits the hiring people's desk. Even if you get hired, you could be passed up for promotion or good assignments because of your past history.

Corporate espionage is the main reason for a lot if these clauses.
 

00xtremeninja

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yeah i hear ya. luckily it is not a corporation. However, I am willing to risk it because as it stands, I am getting raked over the coals and not making enough to survive. Plus there is some shady business tactics happening and I am tired of it. I've already accepted my new position (tehnically owning my own business in a way) so we'll see what happens.
 

BigT2002

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Dec 6, 2006
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so, not that i expect free legal advice, but

non-compete clauses in contracts (and soon to be expired, like in 12 hours) are pretty much a joke right? I am moving on from my current place of employment and will be not far from where i currently am. The guy that owns this place is a hothead and I could see him threaten to sue me (won't go through with it, I know deep down he doesn't have the money to do it) but if he does, it's kind of meh anyways. At least from what I have heard.

They are not a joke at all. But it depends on a lot of things.

1) are you going to a direct competitor? Meaning are you leaving Wells Fargo for US Bank. Not leaving Wells Fargo in Minneapolis to run a bank in say Howard Lake.

2) how proactive they are on the cases. Meaning do they have someone dedicated that is going to look at all your stuff when you turn it back in?

3) did you work in an area of monetary interest. Meaning did you work in mortgage underwriting or were you a bank teller.


Now from my experience with these, you are best to just hand over everything, to include any working documents that you may have either worked on or received in order to do your job. Don't take anything!

- do not email clients and tell them you are leaving for another company and being deliberate about.

- do no email yourself documents or products to a personal account

- do no copy and paste to a cloud source or external media

- do not deliberately delete anything unless specified to do so

The Dos:

- do email clients you are leaving and who they can contact for future support

- do email yourself relevant documents you'll need for tax purposes or other financial things (stock options, 401k, etc)

-do hand back all things given to you. Laptops, tablets, thumb drives, etc.


What are the punishments?

Well I've seen people get outed and lose their company matched 401k contributions from the company they left. Stock options are removed. Any bonuses repaid. That is unless they pay to have a firm permanently remove their IP from devices. This typically costs about $3k to do. But can be more.

The worst is if you brought something to your competitor and now they are being sued by your former employer. Legal fees will skyrocket. You'll have to typically find your own lawyer as well. Expect long drawn out litigation process.


But this all depends on how proactive your former employers are. Sometimes they just hold onto stuff until the time has surpassed and get rid of it. In that mean time they are just looking to see if you'll slip up and produce their IP in some aspect. And even that requires proactiveness.
 

00xtremeninja

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Well I don't work for banking, I do work as an independent therapist (counseling). I am the only one at our small site that works with younger kids and the others that see teenagers are fully booked or the other is going on maternity leave and she is also leaving.

Ethically, the place I am leaving can not force clients to stay as we all have the right to choose medical providers. I have been having conversations with my clients about leaving and if they would like to continue with me they are more than welcome or they can stay with where they are at and wait or I could refer to another agency or clinician in the area. So ethically I am doing my due process.

I initially signed on as an independent contractor, but was supposed to also sign a contract as a w2 employee because I started receiving health insurance, but he never gave me that contract saying I switched over. It was always, oh we will get it to you. So not sure if that is a loop hole or not.

The non compete part though is the distance to where I am setting up my new practice. I am supposed to be at least 10 miles away, but the new place is like 10 blocks away. That's really the only thing he could get me on. But, I don't have to tell him or anyone else where I am going and could technically leave it to them to figure out if they are so inclined.
 

BigT2002

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Dec 6, 2006
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Well I don't work for banking, I do work as an independent therapist (counseling). I am the only one at our small site that works with younger kids and the others that see teenagers are fully booked or the other is going on maternity leave and she is also leaving.

Ethically, the place I am leaving can not force clients to stay as we all have the right to choose medical providers. I have been having conversations with my clients about leaving and if they would like to continue with me they are more than welcome or they can stay with where they are at and wait or I could refer to another agency or clinician in the area. So ethically I am doing my due process.

I initially signed on as an independent contractor, but was supposed to also sign a contract as a w2 employee because I started receiving health insurance, but he never gave me that contract saying I switched over. It was always, oh we will get it to you. So not sure if that is a loop hole or not.

The non compete part though is the distance to where I am setting up my new practice. I am supposed to be at least 10 miles away, but the new place is like 10 blocks away. That's really the only thing he could get me on. But, I don't have to tell him or anyone else where I am going and could technically leave it to them to figure out if they are so inclined.

The bank stuff was just being used to put it into context is all. Non competes are typically used with anything that is sales/IP related.

Your biggest issue you'll have is if you bring a contact list of your clients with you to your own practice. You cannot approach them with a new deal under the specified time has surpassed from your previous employer. Even if they go to another company in between you and your former employer, it can still appear to be colluding on your part.

Don't bank on them never finding out. Trust me on this. The reason most Non-Competes are 6-12 months long is that gives your prior employer leverage in the event they ever find out you "poached" a client. Which they will know because if you have clients start dropping off, they will inquire where they are going and why they are leaving. If they tell them flat out it was because you left and they want your service, they would have ground to activate litigation on you. Would they? Risk + Cost = Reward model. If the risk of taking you to litigation is worth the cost, they will do it. If it isn't then they won't do anything about it but probably issue a Cease and Desist letter to you.

My caution to you is this: Lawyers gonna lawyer. This is how they make their $$ are cases like this. Remember to not coach your present clients on how to handle questions from them if they are leaving. Do not leave a papertrail as well. It can be found. If you are opening your own business, start looking at retention of legal representation anyway. Even if not for this, just so you have someone you can call if something does hit the fan.

Good Luck with the venture!!
 

Minnesota

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Easy way to close out an OT thread? Begin brainstorming names for the next one...

Theme = 42

Aaaaand go!
 

Wild11MN

First round losers
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I'd say something about the Oscars debacle, but I can't think of anything succinct that fits a title. Also I want to say I have zero interest in any of those stupid award shows anyway.
 

Wabit

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Ugg, not looking forward to this weekend. It's State Tourney for my kid (auto-entry for her team). They drew the likely State Champs in the first game (again). WI doesn't seed the teams, just region vs region the same for all levels of youth hockey. The Consolation Bracket is probably where her team belongs anyways. The won the Consolation Champ last year, and have a chance to do the same this year.

6 hr drive to get to Superior, staying in Duluth, is the real reason I'm dreading it. Hopefully their Sunday game is done early enough that we can swing into St. Paul for the Wild game on the way home.

The kid is all signed up for lacrosse. I'm really hoping they have a coach, otherwise I'll be voluntold by the wife to coach the team.
 

TaLoN

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I'd say something about the Oscars debacle, but I can't think of anything succinct that fits a title. Also I want to say I have zero interest in any of those stupid award shows anyway.

Nah... I definitely think a hitch hikers reference needs to win this out... 42 is such a big number JUST because of hitch hikers!
 

TaLoN

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General OT Thread #42: Don't Panic.

BTW - Maybe it's just because I suggested it... but I honestly do like this one best... it fits the nature of the Minnesota Sports fan... they're always waiting for the other shoe to drop and looking for the sky to start falling etc. "Don't Panic" thus is a great Hitch Hiker's reference and it is a great instructional for us Minnesota Sports fans! :popcorn:

In fact... I think that would also make a great Playoff Avatar Theme this year as well! "Don't Panic" - maybe play it off this team's proven ability to come back in games consistently when behind?

It probably is time we start brainstorming Playoff Avatar themes for when we clinch a playoff spot.
 

TaLoN

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Already getting slide ideas for this possible Avatar...

Frame 1
graphic that says
"The Hitch Hiker's Guide"
Frame 2
graphic that says
"To the Stanley Cup Playoffs"
With a Wild playoff logo
Frame 3
Name some situation that has the team down or behind, or bad corsi or too much PDO
Frame 4
DON'T PANIC
Frame 5
custom reason things will be ok - such as "Granlund will win the game single handedly 12 seconds into OT"
with an image of Granlund tucking the puck around Quick (obviously people can come up with any reason/pic combo they'd like here)
 

Wabit

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May 23, 2016
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Quotes/Paraphrases: top-3 ranked
So long and thanks for all the fish.
3. Don’t Panic.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Space, is big. Really big.
I think you ought to know I'm feeling very depressed
1. The Answer to the Great Question, of Life, the Universe and Everything.
2. Always Carry a Towel.
Bad news travels faster than light
 
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