General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Papa Mocha 15]

Yeah, Dems aren't organized at all. You can tell by how they vote in lock step in the House.

That's a both sides things. Problem is neither really serve the people.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

So it looks like California hospitals in the South and some in the North are asking for waivers for Pt safety ratios. This is a significant turn of events. This means nurses will treat more patients instead of the established safety standard for the state. Some have already gone through link below for some hospitals: ICU currently gets no more than 2 patients; Tele/cardiac monitoring currently gets 4; Med Surge 5 and ED 4, but if the Pt they get win ED is ICU level, they are 1:1 at baseline.

So the hospital systems are currently trying to expand ICU to 3 patients. Not sure of the floors yet. Usually if you get 2, that means they are relatively stable. Not necessarily the case now.

Really it comes down to Pt safety which is the highest priority in healthcare.
Medical mistakes are going to be an increased risk because staff can't be in multiple places at the same time. Blood pressures are harder to titrate and manage, giving meds on time, being at bedside when needed most are all going to be more difficult and the COVID patients are very intensive with various degrees of cardiac arrhythmias, oxygen vent requirements, clots, bleeding, timed blood draws and charting all the vitals every 15 minutes to ever hour etc. Gowning up and down to get into the room or multiple rooms and all the documentation afterwards is a huge time management challenge.

Link below to hospitals now already approved to break rations according to CDPH.
COVID-19 facility waivers

Really, the argument is this creates a much less safe environment for both Pts and staff. There is no more staff in some areas of CA and the Pts keep coming. I'm hoping we don't get into crisis management. Stay safe peeps. Keep your older adults safer.

 

[Lt Dan]

So it looks like California hospitals in the South and some in the North are asking for waivers for Pt safety ratios. This is a significant turn of events. This means nurses will treat more patients instead of the established safety standard for the state. Some have already gone through link below for some hospitals: ICU currently gets no more than 2 patients; Tele/cardiac monitoring currently gets 4; Med Surge 5 and ED 4, but if the Pt they get win ED is ICU level, they are 1:1 at baseline.

So the hospital systems are currently trying to expand ICU to 3 patients. Not sure of the floors yet. Usually if you get 2, that means they are relatively stable. Not necessarily the case now.

Really it comes down to Pt safety which is the highest priority in healthcare.
Medical mistakes are going to be an increased risk because staff can't be in multiple places at the same time. Blood pressures are harder to titrate and manage, giving meds on time, being at bedside when needed most are all going to be more difficult and the COVID patients are very intensive with various degrees of cardiac arrhythmias, oxygen vent requirements, clots, bleeding, timed blood draws and charting all the vitals every 15 minutes to ever hour etc. Gowning up and down to get into the room or multiple rooms and all the documentation afterwards is a huge time management challenge.

Link below to hospitals now already approved to break rations according to CDPH.
COVID-19 facility waivers

Really, the argument is this creates a much less safe environment for both Pts and staff. There is no more staff in some areas of CA and the Pts keep coming. I'm hoping we don't get into crisis management. Stay safe peeps. Keep your older adults safer.

oh nelly!

 

[Bandit]

oh nelly!

or

?

 

[Lt Dan]

I'll go with the latter

 

[Lt Dan]

20.5% positive tests today

Giant jump in hosp since yesterday, twas 1371
ICU up big as well from 296

Wed: 23
Tues:1
Mon: 0
Sun: 14
Sat: 18
Fri:22
Thu:7

Average is 12.14 up from 8.85 yesterday

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's gonna get real, real dark in socal really quickly

Nurses across the southland are protesting for better work conditions and PPE as many of them fall ill

Field hospitals are getting set up and already filling up

And now, San Bernardino County, one of the most stringent counties with respect to guidelines, just gave the governor a middle finger by suing to open businesses while a prospective gubernatorial candidate running on nothing but 'open it all up' is running around the area inciting them.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Also one of my employees just got released from the local hospital after a 6-day stay and there were 30 people in the ER waiting for his bed. so...

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Field hospitals setting up in OC too.

Mobile Field Hospitals Are Being Set Up to Handle Orange County's Coronavirus Surge

At least three hospitals have requested the mobile field hospitals in response to the alarming figures. Here's where they'll be located.

• Fountain Valley Regional Hospital: 50 beds
• St. Jude Medical Center, Fullerton: 25 beds
• University of California, Irvine: 50 beds

This illustration provided by the Orange County Health Care Agency shows a mobile field hospital design. Credit: OCHCA
The county reported 2,173 new COVID-19 infections Tuesday, raising the cumulative case total to 107,937. Hospitalizations grew from 1,287 Monday to 1,371 Tuesday, including 296 ICU patients, up from 288 the previous day.
Both are new records -- a daily occurrence since last week.
The consistently high numbers have strained the county ICU bed availability, which increased from 9.3% Monday to 10.4% in the unadjusted category, and increased from zero to 1.4% in the “adjusted'' metric the state created to reflect the difference in beds available for COVID-19 patients and non-coronavirus patients.
The 11-county Southern California region's percentage of available ICU beds stands at 1.7%.

 

[Bandit]

It's gonna get real, real dark in socal really quickly

Nurses across the southland are protesting for better work conditions and PPE as many of them fall ill

Field hospitals are getting set up and already filling up

And now, San Bernardino County, one of the most stringent counties with respect to guidelines, just gave the governor a middle finger by suing to open businesses while a prospective gubernatorial candidate running on nothing but 'open it all up' is running around the area inciting them.

yeah but forget the virus, what about arms day???



‘No science’. This is what we’re dealing with here.

 

[KINGS17]

yeah but forget the virus, what about arms day???



‘No science’. This is what we’re dealing with here.

...and according to them zero cases traced back to their gym.

 

[Bandit]

...and according to them zero cases traced back to their gym.

Yeah and according to Trump he won the election.

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah and according to Trump he won the election.

Yeah, and clearly the lock downs of businesses like restaurants and gyms have stopped the spread.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Opinion | People Thought Covid-19 Was Relatively Harmless for Younger Adults. They Were Wrong.

(Link to study discussed: All-Cause Excess Mortality and COVID-19–Related Mortality Among US Adults Ages 25-44 Years, March-July 2020)

 

[Bandit]

Yeah, and clearly the lock downs of businesses like restaurants and gyms have stopped the spread.

Yeah because with zero restrictions it couldn't possibly get any worse. I'm sure that guy and his gym goers are the only ones flouting the restrictions put in place too. "condoms aren't effective when I only use them 50% of the time" If you wanna keep jumping to the defense of science denying troll who can't even drop a piece of paper onto the ground without licking his fingers, knock yourself out.

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah because with zero restrictions it couldn't possibly get any worse. I'm sure that guy and his gym goers are the only ones flouting the restrictions put in place too. "condoms aren't effective when I only use them 50% of the time" If you wanna keep jumping to the defense of science denying troll who can't even drop a piece of paper onto the ground without licking his fingers, knock yourself out.

I didn't realize every case in the Northeast sprang from this gym. California and states in the Northeast have been under some of the most severe lock down restrictions and cases are still on the rise.

Provide evidence that lock downs involving these businesses are accomplishing anything.

 

[Fishhead]

I didn't realize every case in the Northeast sprang from this gym. California and states in the Northeast have been under some of the most severe lock down restrictions and cases are still on the rise.

Provide evidence that lock downs involving these businesses are accomplishing anything.

It has much less to do with the actual location as it does with taking the proper precautions. The worst thing about the idiot in the above video is he doesn't seem to understand that opening a gym is miles away from opening a gym and requiring proper masks and protection. They are both exclusive. You will find a lot of studies commissioned by gym companies to say there is no spread, but you will also see the opposite. The truth is somewhere in between of course, and has everything to do with PPE.

There is a growing segment of data that are starting to align with the prediction that restaurants, gyms, and so on are hotbeds of spread. This one is a long read but seems really robust given their sample size and methodology:

Mobility network models of COVID-19 explain inequities and inform reopening | Nature

The TLDR version is that they used google mobility data and compared visits to points of interest. The data encompasses something like 5 billion hours with half a million POI's. So it's well beyond a robust set, not like one of these 5,000 people studies put out by businesses. And it's going to be unbiased as there is no human element with interpretation and such, cell phone data doesn't lie, it just is. Their findings are twofold. First, there is a solid correlation that highly suggests that places like restaurants, gyms, shopping malls, and so on were superspreader locations back in the spring when COVID was first labeled a pandemic. This is unsurprising. Second, the data showed a very strong correlation with demographics related to income. Using gyms as an example, far more spread was seen at places like 24 hr fitness compared to a place like Orange Theory. This makes sense as well - you have far more people crowded together in Wal-Marts that at Restoration Hardware.

The biggest thing to note is that this pertains to the Spring, when many weren't wearing masks. It clearly points out that any location with a group of people indoors in close quarters is going to result in substantial spread if they aren't wearing PPE. I'm of the opinion that places like restaurants, gyms, and even movie theaters are not any more dangerous than a store, it's all about enforcing mask policies. Movie theaters are dark, for example, so how do you ensure it? How do you ensure a restaurant owner who is up against the wall financially will require them? The gym guy in the video is doing far more harm than good by promoting the impression that gym owners are a bunch of brainless meatheads. It ruins it for the places who are being responsible because they all get lumped in together.

There's a reason we are seeing a spike right now, and it's not because of any particular place that is opening up. It's pandemic fatigue. I'm in a closed classroom with students all day and we've have had zero spread here, all cases have been from off campus incidents. It's because we enforce PPE policies fanatically.

 

[Bandit]

I didn't realize every case in the Northeast sprang from this gym. California and states in the Northeast have been under some of the most severe lock down restrictions and cases are still on the rise.

Provide evidence that lock downs involving these businesses are accomplishing anything.

I didn't realize that every case had to come from one source for that source to be considered stupid. The amount of evidence that being indoors and maskless spreads COIVD is mountainous and I'm not re-iterating it here in month 10 of the pandemic just because you wanna act obtuse. I know you're not. You put people inside without masks, it spreads. I don't care if it's a gym, a restaurant, or your aunt Tilly's 80th birthday party. That lugnut acting like a "real man" is precisely why we can't have nice things. People are selfish shitheads.

 

[Bandit]

On a lighter note, Mrs. Potts has the best lines...

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I didn't realize every case in the Northeast sprang from this gym. California and states in the Northeast have been under some of the most severe lock down restrictions and cases are still on the rise.

Provide evidence that lock downs involving these businesses are accomplishing anything.

Is the lockdown important to prevent the COVID-19 pandemic? Effects on psychology, environment and economy-perspective

There you go.

This is not contentious science anywhere outside right wing media and economy hawks. The great failure of America is not in lockdowns, but in her refusal to compensate tax paying Americans for shutting down their businesses in compliance. What good is the state if it cannot provide for its people during a crisis? Brb I'll answer that in a second spending billions on drone strike programs in the middle east.

 

[Bandit]

It has much less to do with the actual location as it does with taking the proper precautions. The worst thing about the idiot in the above video is he doesn't seem to understand that opening a gym is miles away from opening a gym and requiring proper masks and protection. They are both exclusive. You will find a lot of studies commissioned by gym companies to say there is no spread, but you will also see the opposite. The truth is somewhere in between of course, and has everything to do with PPE.

There is a growing segment of data that are starting to align with the prediction that restaurants, gyms, and so on are hotbeds of spread. This one is a long read but seems really robust given their sample size and methodology:

Mobility network models of COVID-19 explain inequities and inform reopening | Nature

The TLDR version is that they used google mobility data and compared visits to points of interest. The data encompasses something like 5 billion hours with half a million POI's. So it's well beyond a robust set, not like one of these 5,000 people studies put out by businesses. And it's going to be unbiased as there is no human element with interpretation and such, cell phone data doesn't lie, it just is. Their findings are twofold. First, there is a solid correlation that highly suggests that places like restaurants, gyms, shopping malls, and so on were superspreader locations back in the spring when COVID was first labeled a pandemic. This is unsurprising. Second, the data showed a very strong correlation with demographics related to income. Using gyms as an example, far more spread was seen at places like 24 hr fitness compared to a place like Orange Theory. This makes sense as well - you have far more people crowded together in Wal-Marts that at Restoration Hardware.

The biggest thing to note is that this pertains to the Spring, when many weren't wearing masks. It clearly points out that any location with a group of people indoors in close quarters is going to result in substantial spread if they aren't wearing PPE. I'm of the opinion that places like restaurants, gyms, and even movie theaters are not any more dangerous than a store, it's all about enforcing mask policies. Movie theaters are dark, for example, so how do you ensure it? How do you ensure a restaurant owner who is up against the wall financially will require them? The gym guy in the video is doing far more harm than good by promoting the impression that gym owners are a bunch of brainless meatheads. It ruins it for the places who are being responsible because they all get lumped in together.

There's a reason we are seeing a spike right now, and it's not because of any particular place that is opening up. It's pandemic fatigue. I'm in a closed classroom with students all day and we've have had zero spread here, all cases have been from off campus incidents. It's because we enforce PPE policies fanatically.

Is the lockdown important to prevent the COVID-19 pandemic? Effects on psychology, environment and economy-perspective

There you go.

This is not contentious science anywhere outside right wing media and economy hawks. The great failure of America is not in lockdowns, but in her refusal to compensate tax paying Americans for shutting down their businesses in compliance. What good is the state if it cannot provide for its people during a crisis? Brb I'll answer that in a second spending billions on drone strike programs in the middle east.

I wish I could like these more than once.

 

[tny760]

This one is a long read but seems really robust given their sample size and methodology:

Mobility network models of COVID-19 explain inequities and inform reopening | Nature

bolded the understatement of the century

i question some amount of the conclusions they're drawing in there, they seem to heavily be drawing to mobility being the driving force when there are certainly other factors at play. seems a bit of a narrow-scoped conclusion to me at first glance, especially given the fact that its metro-based and including early spring. but, i have to invest some time into reading that more in-depth. hell of a data set for sure, lots of routes to be driven out of it

equally horrifying to me is the simple existence of all that location metadata.. but that's another conversation.

 

[Fishhead]

bolded the understatement of the century


equally horrifying to me is the simple existence of all that location metadata.. but that's another conversation.

I know right? I'm guilty of contributing because I've always had my location stuff on, but I figure they have that kind of stuff anyways because of emergencies I might as well have it on and be able to get a copy of it. I downloaded my google history once and it was like 12 huge compressed files.

I take solace in the fact that the amount of data is so overwhelming that there is no way "they" are going to be spying on me

 

[tny760]

I know right? I'm guilty of contributing because I've always had my location stuff on, but I figure they have that kind of stuff anyways because of emergencies I might as well have it on and be able to get a copy of it. I downloaded my google history once and it was like 12 huge compressed files.

I take solace in the fact that the amount of data is so overwhelming that there is no way "they" are going to be spying on me

yeah, kind of unnerving. suppose all it takes though, is "them" needing a reason to look then connecting dots. all because i got tired of punching in my zip code to read the vons ad or something and i allowed it access to location data.. crazy. and we're aware of it, imagine what unaware folks are giving away via snapchat/instagram/facebook location data and image EXIF.. christ.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn't realize every case in the Northeast sprang from this gym. California and states in the Northeast have been under some of the most severe lock down restrictions and cases are still on the rise.

Provide evidence that lock downs involving these businesses are accomplishing anything.

No, they've been under the most severe requested lockdowns, what people are actually doing is very clearly not following those, as evidenced by your hero there.

We had Major Williams canvassing here locally and he might as well have personally coughed on our entirely purple city. You would have thought from footage it was the Midwest, or Huntington Beach, not a hardcore lockdown Southern California city. This goes back to the people complaining about lockdowns avoiding the lockdowns and any semblance of protection then complaining about further lockdowns and PPE. If you didn't observe it in the first place, you can't complain about the results. You saw the Black Friday footage.

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. I wouldn't trust that f***ing knucklehead to report accurately, anyway.