General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Papa Mocha 15]

I think the J & J is made using dead COVID-19 virus. I think you should hold out for the Moderna or Pfizer which might give you better protection against variations of the virus.

Hi there. Good question since it hasn't had the same level of publicity. It's using what's called the viral vector which carries the same spike but a different harmless virus.

Understanding Viral Vector COVID-19 Vaccines
How They Work

Viral vector vaccines use a modified version of a different virus (the vector) to deliver important instructions to our cells.

1. First, the vector (not the virus that causes COVID-19, but a different, harmless virus) will enter a cell in our body and then use the cell’s machinery to produce a harmless piece of the virus that causes COVID-19. This piece is known as a spike protein and it is only found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19.
2. Next, the cell displays the spike protein on its surface, and our immune system recognizes it doesn’t belong there. This triggers our immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating other immune cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection.
3. At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect us against future infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. The benefit is that we get this protection from a vaccine, without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19. Any temporary discomfort experienced after getting the vaccine is a natural part of the process and an indication that the vaccine is working.

Information about the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine
How Well the Vaccine Works

• The J&J/Janssen vaccine was 66.3% effective in clinical trials (efficacy) at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 illness in people who had no evidence of prior infection 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine. People had the most protection 2 weeks after getting vaccinated.
• The vaccine had high efficacy at preventing hospitalization and death in people who did get sick. No one who got COVID-19 at least 4 weeks after receiving the J&J/Janssen vaccine had to be hospitalized.
• Early evidence suggests that the J&J/Janssen vaccine might provide protection against asymptomatic infection, which is when a person is infected by the virus that causes COVID-19 but does not get sick.
• CDC will continue to provide updates as we learn more about how well the J&J/Janssen vaccine works in real-world conditions.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Little ones should be ok. My high school SPED students and four other classes have been alone on campus in pods. Dealt with a lot of quarantines and some family deaths. No real spread on campus thankfully.

Now pods are gone, at 3 feet, and gen Ed students are returning. Kind wish we saved the return for August.

It's certainly nerve racking to be the guinea pigs, I know what that's like It's good to see that so far, it's uneventful. But it seems like the only variant at this point that I'm overly concerned about is the Brazilian and S. African. I'm curious to see how this plays out over the summer. We'll see if CA gets another wave, but right now our numbers in the hospital are super low. It is starting to feel like a normal ICU again in the unit so I'm hoping that trend continues. I spoke to one of my House Supervisors which is the RN manager for the entire hospital that manages the incoming/transfers/discharges and he was telling me the Peds units have been mostly monitoring and we haven't had overly crazy cases as it relates to kids. I know NY was having a hell of a time at the beginning though so I'm remaining cautiously optimistic.

 

[LAKings88]

It's certainly nerve racking to be the guinea pigs, I know what that's like It's good to see that so far, it's uneventful. But it seems like the only variant at this point that I'm overly concerned about is the Brazilian and S. African. I'm curious to see how this plays out over the summer. We'll see if CA gets another wave, but right now our numbers in the hospital are super low. It is starting to feel like a normal ICU again in the unit so I'm hoping that trend continues. I spoke to one of my House Supervisors which is the RN manager for the entire hospital that manages the incoming/transfers/discharges and he was telling me the Peds units have been mostly monitoring and we haven't had overly crazy cases as it relates to kids. I know NY was having a hell of a time at the beginning though so I'm remaining cautiously optimistic.

Can’t thank you all enough for what you do.

 

[Ryan120420]

I'm getting the J&J one on Monday. Anyone have experience with that?

I got it on Easter.

Here is what I experienced:

9 hours after I started to feel like I was in a fog and was starting to get really tired.
10 hours after, I started to have muscle aches in my legs.
12 hours after extreme headache, chills, sweats, and a 101.6 degree fever.
24 hours after fever gone, mild heachache, occasional muscle ache, and still very lethargic.
48 hours all symptoms gone, just very tired.
4 days after I finally feel 100% back to normal.

 

[LAKings88]

I had a sore armpit for about a week after the first Moderna shot. Lymph-nodes.
Sore arm for a couple of days.

2cd shot was just a sore arm.

 

[Lt Dan]

1.9% positives today
Over 100 new cases for 3 straight days
Hosp up from Friday (114)
But ICU down from 32

 

[KINGS17]

I'm getting the J&J one on Monday. Anyone have experience with that?

RJ - Did you end up getting the J&J vaccine?

 

[Lt Dan]

0.9% positives today
Hosp down 5 from yesterday, but ICU up 2

Rolling 7 day case count
Tue- 102
Mon-120
Sun- 196
Sat-422
Fri-87
Thu- 95
Wed-75
Avg of 156.714


Rolling 7 day death count
Tue- 10
Mon-0
Sun- 8
Sat-5
Fri- 16
Thu- 19
Wed-7
Avg of 9.285

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

RJ - Did you end up getting the J&J vaccine?

They shut it down as I arrived, go figure

Now scheduled for Moderna on Thursday

 

[Lt Dan]

They shut it down as I arrived, go figure

Now scheduled for Moderna on Thursday

I got the moderna

IIRC you had Covid, right? You very likely WILL have side effects.
I got mine on a Friday. Saturday AM was rough. I felt like I had drank like three bottles of tequila the night before and was running a low grade fever. 99.5 (I usually run 98.1, because I am a cool cat)
I felt pretty normal about 8 hours later and has nausea fits the next day

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Anyone hear of any really bad reactions to vaccines, not the shit I see in the news etc....

Might be our time up here end of April, or beginning of May...I've always been of the mindset to not get it, because we just don't know enough about it......but our small town here is sky rocketing, so that may not be an option for me.....

 

[Lt Dan]

Anyone hear of any really bad reactions to vaccines, not the shit I see in the news etc....

Might be our time up here end of April, or beginning of May...I've always been of the mindset to not get it, because we just don't know enough about it......but our small town here is sky rocketing, so that may not be an option for me.....

The only reactions I have heard are nearly instant and they are because of food allergies and people are on hand with epi-pens just in case

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The only reactions I have heard are nearly instant and they are because of food allergies and people are on hand with epi-pens just in case

Interesting....don't have any food allegeries....really. I just feel that so much is unknown about these vaccines etc....normally 4-5 years to get onto market, done in what, 10 months? Is that just in my head or is that a shared view?

 

[Lt Dan]

Interesting....don't have any food allegeries....really. I just feel that so much is unknown about these vaccines etc....normally 4-5 years to get onto market, done in what, 10 months? Is that just in my head or is that a shared view?

Everyone has a different view. People are all over the board on this.
From my understanding, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and 2 spike proteins and some RNA.
The J&J vaccine is more spike proteins(i think 5) and is more like a traditional vaccine




The expert here at HF is a guy named Treb. He knows his stuff.
If you ask him here he should be able to answer your questions in much greater detail
Vaccine and vaccination thread part IV

 

[Lt Dan]

0.6% positives!
Under 100 new cases!!
Hosp up from 115 yesterday
ICU down 1

Rolling 7 day cases
Wed-89
Tue- 102
Mon-120
Sun- 196
Sat-422
Fri-87
Thu- 95
Avg of 158.71 up from 156.714 yesterday


Rolling 7 day death count
Wed-13
Tue- 10
Mon-0
Sun- 8
Sat-5
Fri- 16
Thu- 19
Avg of 10.14 up from 9.285 yesterday

 

[Gjwrams]

First Moderna shot on March 18. Just a sore arm, but have sort of felt a little malaise since then. No fever, No cold symptoms, just fatigued. I get my 2nd one on Thursday.

I am still stunned at the number of people in the crowd at the Dodger's game NOT wearing a mask? It just perplexes me at the resistance to wear them.

 

[Fishhead]

Interesting....don't have any food allegeries....really. I just feel that so much is unknown about these vaccines etc....normally 4-5 years to get onto market, done in what, 10 months? Is that just in my head or is that a shared view?

I wouldn’t say so much is unknown anymore, at least when it comes to allergic reactions. Close to 75 million people in the US are fully vaccinated, that’s one hell of a sample size.

Also, keep in mind that speed to market isn’t an indicator of safety, most of that timeframe is for legal crap. I worked for a pharma company for a good period prior to becoming a teacher, and I can tell you this would be the scenario without the pandemic:

1. Moderna produces a RNA vaccine after 9 months of research and development based on things they have in their pipeline
2. Pfizer produces a similar RNA vaccine during a similar time frame
3. ANDA’s are submitted to the FDA for approval.
3. Moderna sues Pfizer for being a copycat
4. Pfizer says bring it on

1.5 years later there is a ruling about the case. The winner wants exclusivity granted and the loser appeals, stating that exclusivity would unfairly tip the market until appeals are exhausted. Nothing on the market yet.

1 more year later the ruling on appeals either upholds or reverses the initial ruling. If the winner wins again, things are faster. If the original user wins, then we get more legal action.

During this time, the FDA had applications but many times they don’t work on them as they are awaiting the outcome of the trials, since the drugs won’t be sold until a ruling is handed down anyways. They can sift through the data and make a determination in a short time frame, but why rush if it’s not going to market anyways. If the FDA dragged their feet on it, you are looking at least a few months until things go to market. If its a non-urgent drug/vaccine, more like a year.

Remove the legal issues and expedite the review and you can have a drug available a few months after trials end.

 

[Gjwrams]

I wouldn’t say so much is unknown anymore, at least when it comes to allergic reactions. Close to 75 million people in the US are fully vaccinated, that’s one hell of a sample size.

Also, keep in mind that speed to market isn’t an indicator of safety, most of that timeframe is for legal crap. I worked for a pharma company for a good period prior to becoming a teacher, and I can tell you this would be the scenario without the pandemic:

1. Moderna produces a RNA vaccine after 9 months of research and development based on things they have in their pipeline
2. Pfizer produces a similar RNA vaccine during a similar time frame
3. ANDA’s are submitted to the FDA for approval.
3. Moderna sues Pfizer for being a copycat
4. Pfizer says bring it on

1.5 years later there is a ruling about the case. The winner wants exclusivity granted and the loser appeals, stating that exclusivity would unfairly tip the market until appeals are exhausted. Nothing on the market yet.

1 more year later the ruling on appeals either upholds or reverses the initial ruling. If the winner wins again, things are faster. If the original user wins, then we get more legal action.

During this time, the FDA had applications but many times they don’t work on them as they are awaiting the outcome of the trials, since the drugs won’t be sold until a ruling is handed down anyways. They can sift through the data and make a determination in a short time frame, but why rush if it’s not going to market anyways. If the FDA dragged their feet on it, you are looking at least a few months until things go to market. If its a non-urgent drug/vaccine, more like a year.

Remove the legal issues and expedite the review and you can have a drug available a few months after trials end.

Imagine that? Remove bureaucracy and shit gets done. Who would have thunk?

 

[KINGS17]

Interesting....don't have any food allegeries....really. I just feel that so much is unknown about these vaccines etc....normally 4-5 years to get onto market, done in what, 10 months? Is that just in my head or is that a shared view?

Be aware RNA vaccine technology has been being researched for many years. The pharmaceutical companies were finally given a reason to sink enough money into it to make an RNA vaccine to target a specific type of virus.

 

[tny760]

Interesting....don't have any food allegeries....really. I just feel that so much is unknown about these vaccines etc....normally 4-5 years to get onto market, done in what, 10 months? Is that just in my head or is that a shared view?

i mean it's a valid question imo, i personally don't care for how asking that question seems to get you demonized as an "antivaxxer" but quite simply there's no one that has a true answer. there's historical precedent (GSK's pandemrix re: H1N1) to these pharmaceutical companies putting out vaccines that cause unintended long-term harm but if i remember correctly we're talking on the scale of a couple thousand out of 30 million or something like that. i think even to a gambler that's pretty good odds and i have to feel that we've learned something and advanced the science since then

i can only speak for myself but even with the headlines, the numbers for the J&J one were like, 66% at preventing illness but 100% at keeping you out the hospital.. that's the crux for me. i ain't goin to the f***in hospital for this shit. i haven't been going to the gym for upwards of a year now cause that risk of being hospitalized with a thousand sick people ain't worth it to me, but my mental and physical health is rapidly declining with how sedentary i've become and i need that back in my life. that's enough reason for me. i got the J&J last friday, i feel totally normal and had 0 sides but that's just me.

i mean ultimately it's your body and you have the right to do as you please with it but i personally feel like we're approaching the point where there's enough of a data pool that it's probably fine. i didn't feel it was there a couple months ago but maybe that was just the fear of being burned as an early adopter. shout out to the hospital employees for being my guinea pigs i guess.

 

[apocalypse]

Pentagon released a micro chip that can detect covid. Welcome to the beast system.

 

[Schrute farms]

I wouldn’t say so much is unknown anymore...

I'm very educated and definitely not an anti-vaxxer (nor anti-masker). But the concerned i had early on for the vaccines was the uncertainty. You have to admit that the lack of trust for Big-Pharma is somewhat warranted based on years of issues (too many to get into). Also the rush for getting back to normal, stock market, tax revenues, etc. makes an environment ripe for potential of rushed vaccines. Not to mention the new science/basis used for them -- not new to the science/health world & such but rather in a finished/valid product.

So I was always a wait-and-see type of guy. Now that we have 4-6+ months of real world data for millions, many of my concerns are gone away. However, there still is the unknown of the long-term consequences/effects. Whether that is small, inconsequential or just nonexistent -- the fact is we don't know yet with true certainty and won't...until time elapses obviously and we look back. I honestly go back & forth daily (maybe even within each day) of wanting to schedule an appointment versus waiting. By waiting i mean another month or more....possibly even waiting to see if CV goes away with herd immunity from others getting the vaccine and natural immunity. I generally lean more to getting it and i'm getting closer to doing so (i think). But that unknown still persists even at a super small percentage in my mind. Only hindsight down the road will perfect the issues (imo) and make the unknowns nonexistent.

 

[Master Yoda]

i mean it's a valid question imo, i personally don't care for how asking that question seems to get you demonized as an "antivaxxer" but quite simply there's no one that has a true answer. there's historical precedent (GSK's pandemrix re: H1N1) to these pharmaceutical companies putting out vaccines that cause unintended long-term harm but if i remember correctly we're talking on the scale of a couple thousand out of 30 million or something like that. i think even to a gambler that's pretty good odds and i have to feel that we've learned something and advanced the science since then

i can only speak for myself but even with the headlines, the numbers for the J&J one were like, 66% at preventing illness but 100% at keeping you out the hospital.. that's the crux for me. i ain't goin to the f***in hospital for this shit. i haven't been going to the gym for upwards of a year now cause that risk of being hospitalized with a thousand sick people ain't worth it to me, but my mental and physical health is rapidly declining with how sedentary i've become and i need that back in my life. that's enough reason for me. i got the J&J last friday, i feel totally normal and had 0 sides but that's just me.

i mean ultimately it's your body and you have the right to do as you please with it but i personally feel like we're approaching the point where there's enough of a data pool that it's probably fine. i didn't feel it was there a couple months ago but maybe that was just the fear of being burned as an early adopter. shout out to the hospital employees for being my guinea pigs i guess.

Yea not being active has really taken a toll on my body. I've gotten a sore ankle, a sore neck, and a sore left hip all out of thin air, and the sore ankle I've had for almost a year now.
I'm sitting 10 hours a day in the office and then coming home to sit around a few more hours and sit around most of the weekend.
I was never the most active person but at least I'd go to the gym a couple times a week and get some sun at the golf course a few times a month.

I also had some questions about the possible long term effects, but I figured some of the human volunteers have had it for nearly a year and a lot of the early adopters have had it for 3~4months now, so it seems like those questions were answered at least in part.

I got the first moderna shot last week, my arm was really sore for a couple of days, to the point where it was painful to even lift the arm. Had minor body aches and a slight fever the next day, took some Tylenol and felt better. Day 3 I had minor headaches and then on day 5, I had a sore throat. My daughter had flu symptoms at the same time, so I'm not sure if the sore throat was related to the vaccination.
Definitely looking forward to getting to the gym again after my second shot in May.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I wouldn’t say so much is unknown anymore, at least when it comes to allergic reactions. Close to 75 million people in the US are fully vaccinated, that’s one hell of a sample size.

Also, keep in mind that speed to market isn’t an indicator of safety, most of that timeframe is for legal crap. I worked for a pharma company for a good period prior to becoming a teacher, and I can tell you this would be the scenario without the pandemic:

1. Moderna produces a RNA vaccine after 9 months of research and development based on things they have in their pipeline
2. Pfizer produces a similar RNA vaccine during a similar time frame
3. ANDA’s are submitted to the FDA for approval.
3. Moderna sues Pfizer for being a copycat
4. Pfizer says bring it on

1.5 years later there is a ruling about the case. The winner wants exclusivity granted and the loser appeals, stating that exclusivity would unfairly tip the market until appeals are exhausted. Nothing on the market yet.

1 more year later the ruling on appeals either upholds or reverses the initial ruling. If the winner wins again, things are faster. If the original user wins, then we get more legal action.

During this time, the FDA had applications but many times they don’t work on them as they are awaiting the outcome of the trials, since the drugs won’t be sold until a ruling is handed down anyways. They can sift through the data and make a determination in a short time frame, but why rush if it’s not going to market anyways. If the FDA dragged their feet on it, you are looking at least a few months until things go to market. If its a non-urgent drug/vaccine, more like a year.

Remove the legal issues and expedite the review and you can have a drug available a few months after trials end.

Did not know most of that...I thought the trials is what took the most time...thank you.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yea not being active has really taken a toll on my body. I've gotten a sore ankle, a sore neck, and a sore left hip all out of thin air, and the sore ankle I've had for almost a year now.
I'm sitting 10 hours a day in the office and then coming home to sit around a few more hours and sit around most of the weekend.
I was never the most active person but at least I'd go to the gym a couple times a week and get some sun at the golf course a few times a month.

I also had some questions about the possible long term effects, but I figured some of the human volunteers have had it for nearly a year and a lot of the early adopters have had it for 3~4months now, so it seems like those questions were answered at least in part.

I got the first moderna shot last week, my arm was really sore for a couple of days, to the point where it was painful to even lift the arm. Had minor body aches and a slight fever the next day, took some Tylenol and felt better. Day 3 I had minor headaches and then on day 5, I had a sore throat. My daughter had flu symptoms at the same time, so I'm not sure if the sore throat was related to the vaccination.
Definitely looking forward to getting to the gym again after my second shot in May.

I'm very educated and definitely not an anti-vaxxer (nor anti-masker). But the concerned i had early on for the vaccines was the uncertainty. You have to admit that the lack of trust for Big-Pharma is somewhat warranted based on years of issues (too many to get into). Also the rush for getting back to normal, stock market, tax revenues, etc. makes an environment ripe for potential of rushed vaccines. Not to mention the new science/basis used for them -- not new to the science/health world & such but rather in a finished/valid product.

So I was always a wait-and-see type of guy. Now that we have 4-6+ months of real world data for millions, many of my concerns are gone away. However, there still is the unknown of the long-term consequences/effects. Whether that is small, inconsequential or just nonexistent -- the fact is we don't know yet with true certainty and won't...until time elapses obviously and we look back. I honestly go back & forth daily (maybe even within each day) of wanting to schedule an appointment versus waiting. By waiting i mean another month or more....possibly even waiting to see if CV goes away with herd immunity from others getting the vaccine and natural immunity. I generally lean more to getting it and i'm getting closer to doing so (i think). But that unknown still persists even at a super small percentage in my mind. Only hindsight down the road will perfect the issues (imo) and make the unknowns nonexistent.

i mean it's a valid question imo, i personally don't care for how asking that question seems to get you demonized as an "antivaxxer" but quite simply there's no one that has a true answer. there's historical precedent (GSK's pandemrix re: H1N1) to these pharmaceutical companies putting out vaccines that cause unintended long-term harm but if i remember correctly we're talking on the scale of a couple thousand out of 30 million or something like that. i think even to a gambler that's pretty good odds and i have to feel that we've learned something and advanced the science since then

i can only speak for myself but even with the headlines, the numbers for the J&J one were like, 66% at preventing illness but 100% at keeping you out the hospital.. that's the crux for me. i ain't goin to the f***in hospital for this shit. i haven't been going to the gym for upwards of a year now cause that risk of being hospitalized with a thousand sick people ain't worth it to me, but my mental and physical health is rapidly declining with how sedentary i've become and i need that back in my life. that's enough reason for me. i got the J&J last friday, i feel totally normal and had 0 sides but that's just me.

i mean ultimately it's your body and you have the right to do as you please with it but i personally feel like we're approaching the point where there's enough of a data pool that it's probably fine. i didn't feel it was there a couple months ago but maybe that was just the fear of being burned as an early adopter. shout out to the hospital employees for being my guinea pigs i guess.

Be aware RNA vaccine technology has been being researched for many years. The pharmaceutical companies were finally given a reason to sink enough money into it to make an RNA vaccine to target a specific type of virus.

Appreciate all the answers guys....kinda resigned myself that I need to get it, so now just waiting on the particulars...