General COVID-19 Talk #3 NHL Qualifiers begin August 1 MOD Warning

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Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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I think ICU bed utilization is a key metric. I am not as concerned about people ages 1-50 contracting COVID-19 other than them spreading the virus. If people in this age range are out and about living their lives, then they should stay away from people who are vulnerable. If they live in a household with people at risk, then they should behave as if they are at risk.

Perhaps there should be mandatory testing at businesses which have large numbers of people working in crowded conditions. This would be a good use of our tax money.

At this time I don't think anyone can claim someone's business and economic well being isn't essential. There are health issues related to these closures which are not virus related.

I think if you want to reduce the spread, it has to be done without using a shotgun approach. We know which neighborhoods are having the biggest problems and the businesses at which people in those neighborhoods are employed. Instead of wrecking the lives of restaurant owners, young kids who should be in school, etc., why not institute increased testing programs in the areas most affected? Why not contact trace and quarantine people in these areas when a positive test is confirmed?


I'm more than a little miffed that we don't have access to a quick test-and-response yet. That can solve all of the above problems and more.

Yet, at this point, it's literally about keeping medical professionals safe AND sane as well as not overflowing the hospitals, more now than it has ever been. It's a bummer that ironically-ineffective overreach pissed people off so much before because it's more necessary now than ever. I'm a small business owner too, I recognize that this is the most key time we've had. If only we wouldn't have squandered the last 6 months in various ways.

I don't think we're going to agree here and that's okay. And frankly I'm not sure how I feel at this moment so that makes my response even tougher haha. I waver back and forth between agreeing fully with you and going back to a full March-style stay-at-home. Regardless this is going to be a bumpy month.
 
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Token

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May 15, 2019
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I am not as concerned about people ages 1-50 contracting COVID-19 other than them spreading the virus. If people in this age range are out and about living their lives, then they should stay away from people who are vulnerable. If they live in a household with people at risk, then they should behave as if they are at risk.

f*** me sideways ... that is a perfect example of white privilege.

So WTF happens if you have a senior parent or grandparent in your household? You lock down and who pays the mortgage and all the other bills?

This is the kind of bullshit thinking that got us to thousands dying each day.

f***ing ruthless.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
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f*** me sideways ... that is a perfect example of white privilege.

So WTF happens if you have a senior parent or grandparent in your household? You lock down and who pays the mortgage and all the other bills?

This is the kind of bullshit thinking that got us to thousands dying each day.

f***ing ruthless.

It's a perfect example of reality. These are people the government should be helping through the pandemic instead of sending $1500 checks out to everyone.

How does quarantining the sick and allowing the healthy to work and go to school lead to thousands dying each day?

Sorry, the term "white privilege" is not in my vocabulary. I am not a practitioner of identity politics.

Why do you want to punish everyone when a targeted solution is a better option?
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
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Meh, the graphic is embedded in a stupid way. But here's the problematic data.

Those percentages should not come as any surprise. In the San Joaquin Valley you have farm laborers who likely have little access to testing, and are living and working in crowded conditions.

In Southern California you have a large population in East LA who live and work in crowded areas as well.

These are the places where we need to spend our resources to reduce the spread.

east la covid 19 cases - Google Search
 
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tny760

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I think ICU bed utilization is a key metric.
feels like this should have been the thing from the start and should have always have been the deciding factor but hey, i'm not a policy maker

right from the jump we were concerned with hospitals being over capacity and i understand we're on a 2 week delay but that includes case rate and all those other metrics that we moved the goalposts to.. ultimately what matters? can we effectively treat people that need treatment? i'm not sure case rate being 7% instead of 6% is a metric that should have changed any policy in that respect

like don't get me wrong, i see the numbers are real bad right now and don't appear to be getting better but now we've stretched everything so thin that average people simply can't afford to stay home any more. it's just like, policy was in place for the last few months and it hasn't seemed to get us anywhere but worse
 
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Token

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It's a perfect example of reality.
For the affluent and middle class, yeah, and it discards the rest of America. The very people that make the machine work for the privileged.


Sorry, the term "white privilege" is not in my vocabulary. I am not a practitioner of identity politics.
Which explains the myopic views. If you refuse to participate in a discussion you are clearly a part of, you end up being left out in the margins, a fringe of society that remains stagnant in the evolving societal norms. The old cliche of “get off my lawn”.

Why do you want to punish everyone when a targeted solution is a better option?
Because a targeted solution is impossible to execute in the grand US of A. There is no central authority that can execute that.

One big lie that lets folks feel good about their situation while giving no f***s for the world ...

It’s quite sad, really.
 

KINGS17

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For the affluent and middle class, yeah, and it discards the rest of America. The very people that make the machine work for the privileged.

How? I am advocating for money to be spent on testing and benefits for people in those overcrowded communities. As I said, better to spend resources where the problem exists than to shut down everything and send everyone a measly $1500 check (a ridiculous amount for living expenses in California).

Which explains the myopic views. If you refuse to participate in a discussion you are clearly a part of, you end up being left out in the margins, a fringe of society that remains stagnant in the evolving societal norms. The old cliche of “get off my lawn”.

How am I refusing to participate in a discussion?

Get off my lawn? This is about as non-sequitur as it gets.

Because a targeted solution is impossible to execute in the grand US of A. There is no central authority that can execute that.

One big lie that lets folks feel good about their situation while giving no f***s for the world ...

It’s quite sad, really.

Targeted solutions are best implemented at the local level. This should almost be an axiom. The last thing we need is some federal bureaucrat, who is 3,000 miles away in Washington, DC, enforcing "rules" (not laws) across the entire country.

Am I happy the area in which I live has not been dramatically impacted by COVID-19? Yes, excuse me for being human. That does not mean I don't think we should help those in areas where there has been a significant impact.

What is sad is you seem to be intent on punishing anyone who isn't working or living in an environment which is conducive to transmitting the virus.

Identity politics is a loser philosophy.
 

Token

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How? I am advocating for money to be spent on testing and benefits for people in those overcrowded communities. As I said, better to spend resources where the problem exists than to shut down everything and send everyone a measly $1500 check (a ridiculous amount for living expenses in California).



How am I refusing to participate in a discussion?

Get off my lawn? This is about as non-sequitur as it gets.



Targeted solutions are best implemented at the local level. This should almost be an axiom. The last thing we need is some federal bureaucrat, who is 3,000 miles away in Washington, DC, enforcing "rules" (not laws) across the entire country.

Am I happy the area in which I live has not been dramatically impacted by COVID-19? Yes, excuse me for being human. That does not mean I don't think we should help those in areas where there has been a significant impact.

What is sad is you seem to be intent on punishing anyone who isn't working or living in an environment which is conducive to transmitting the virus.

Identity politics is a loser philosophy.
You’re funny, man. Hopeless but funny.
 

Papa Mocha 15

I love the smell of ice in the morning.
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And we are getting over run. It's bad out there. Everyone is short staffed.

I've been thinking about the term ICU and what it means to me and how I'm growing to understand it. This is just me musing. I realize more and more that we don't "save" people like someone coming in with a cape like the Emergency Department. ICU is a journey. I read a book once that said that the job of the ICU nurse is to keep their patients comfortable and try to prevent suffering while they medically manage the body's reaction to a disease process (paraphrased). That stopped me dead in my tracks. We give them a chance and their body fights disease or it doesn't and our job is to keep them as comfortable as possible through this journey. The problem is there are not a lot of ICU nurses compared to floor nurses. My old hospital had only 12 ICU beds. But we could have 140 plus regular beds on the floors in the same hospital. If someone got too sick and needed ICU but they were full, then start looking to see who the most stable patient is and ready them for the floor. If that is not attentable or safe, then someone needs a transfer to another hospital in the network, likely the Pt who is crashing once stabilized. But if 40 people need ICU level of care all at once, you're up a river no paddle and that is what is starting to happen now. The problem is, if staff is too overloaded, things can get missed and mistakes are risked with very intense patients. These COVID patients are more technically heavy than other run of the mill ICU patients. They have clots, sepsis, ARDS, DKA, heart failure. Often times, a patient will come to the unit with only one of these as the reason for admission but COVID patients get all of them which make them technically heavier cases. ICU nurses are notorious for saying, I can give great care to 1 patient. 2 is too much. Other nurses who manage 4 or 7 patients laugh at us for that. Hospitals double the more stable patients with an RN. 11-13 nurses for 16 patients results in 2 to 3 doubles. But here is the catchy, when you look at the complexity of this virus, it leaves little doubt to why I lose my shit at people when they talk about the kill rate being nothing. Our job is to know the patient better than they know themselves by how they breathe on sedation, breathe on a vent. Little things like how they quick they were to respond to our voices when we talk to them and then suddenly the seem a little more confused (infection? clot? stroke? maybe just a little oxygen? maybe the pain meds?, not enough or need more? labs? Ammonia? Pneumonia? or is it delirium or lack of sleep?). And to anticipate the next step. A lot these COVID patients cannot be doubled. They are just too damn heavy.

COVID, patients can stick with us for weeks or months in ICU on their journey which means some tough decisions are going to have be made on who gets care and who doesn't if we get totally over run and into crisis management. There are only so many beds, only so many ICU nurses. I'm hoping the gov pulled the chord soon enough.

We can give meds and hang drips, but we can't force the body to respond. A lot of it is will. A lot more than one would think. Having family at bedside plays a huge role because it reminds people why they keep fighting but that goes away with COVID because families are not allowed at bedside. So they waste away, slowly and very alert to what is happening unless they are heavily sedated. This journey can be prevented through mask use. It doesn't matter anymore how we feel about masks because we're at the tipping point where the gov is stepping in and now locking it down because they recognize we can only hold on for so much longer. I know it can always get worse. I've seen worse. I go to sleep seeing worse somedays and see it again when I wake up. I hear blood pressure alarms for hours after a shift. It's weird to decide between a hot chocolate and a muffin 20 minutes after doing compressions on someone's chest. I feel guilty about it. But I have to remind myself that was their journey. Not mine. And these events are becoming too frequent, they are less stable, crash fast. And we're very much human and are the last line of defense in this mess.
 
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tny760

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It's weird to decide between a hot chocolate and a muffin 20 minutes after doing compressions on someone's chest. I feel guilty about it.
i think from being in the field though, you know exactly what that is, some form of survivor's guilt and that's a "normal" reaction to trauma (isn't ptsd wonderful)

realistically, appropriately feeding your body to continue working on other people and potentially help them is a better choice, technically more "honorable" even if it feels selfish internally

personally its something i'm more prone to being able to internalize, the "hired gun" mindset but its not far off from what you're saying about it being their journey instead of yours. you're there because you have a set of skills that can help, sometimes your "part" of helping doesn't necessarily result in the problem being fixed. a drain cleaner can clear a pipe full of roots and they did their part to the best of his ability, even if the cracks in the pipes are still there. doesn't diminish his value.
 

Fishhead

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Very little good news out there. It's encouraging we aren't seeing much in schools, at least here in OC. Zero transmission at mine, only 10 total student cases in over 3 months. My kids school has had only 3 or 4, but they only have around 500 students. Still, encouraging.

All we really do on campus is wear masks and keep distance. We do vigorously contact trace and keep track of any student around one that may have been on campus when positive. We quarantine them just to be safe, but none have caught it on campus so far. I think the biggest thing is the students are being really honest, telling the school if they may have been exposed or if a family member has it. That recognition of risk is key, and it's keeping our numbers down.

There are a lot of people out there that are just over everything, though. Regardless of their potential exposure, they just answer no to all the typical screening questions and go about their business. Thankfully modern technology has helped us create a vaccine very quickly. It's ironic that current technology is also why so many people struggle with something like a pandemic. Instant gratification has led to short attention spans and the selfie culture has reduced how many folks think about others.
 

Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
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Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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Very little good news out there. It's encouraging we aren't seeing much in schools, at least here in OC. Zero transmission at mine, only 10 total student cases in over 3 months. My kids school has had only 3 or 4, but they only have around 500 students. Still, encouraging.

All we really do on campus is wear masks and keep distance. We do vigorously contact trace and keep track of any student around one that may have been on campus when positive. We quarantine them just to be safe, but none have caught it on campus so far. I think the biggest thing is the students are being really honest, telling the school if they may have been exposed or if a family member has it. That recognition of risk is key, and it's keeping our numbers down.

There are a lot of people out there that are just over everything, though. Regardless of their potential exposure, they just answer no to all the typical screening questions and go about their business. Thankfully modern technology has helped us create a vaccine very quickly. It's ironic that current technology is also why so many people struggle with something like a pandemic. Instant gratification has led to short attention spans and the selfie culture has reduced how many folks think about others.


I'm really happy to see schools for the most part have been good--at least from the kids/students perspective. Now that more and more are exposed it's encouraging to see how little effect there is as a whole. Unfortunately it's the families and teachers that bare the risk and we don't know about the long term effects (plenty of studies from polio, the 1918 flu, etc. that show bad things happening a decade later, or even chickenpox --> shingles), but society is starting to balance risks a little bit more.

I'm still miffed--maybe more here for anywhere--about the lack of a quick-test as described in an article i posted back in like April. Schools would benefit the most, imo. Knowing in 24 hours or more is, frankly, one of the biggest reasons we are where we are. Especially now having to wait in hour long drive thru lines for tests. Like you said, people are just over it and just go about their business until they can't.
 

Schrute farms

LA Kings: new GM wanted -- inquire within
Jul 7, 2020
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I'm still miffed--maybe more here for anywhere--about the lack of a quick-test as described in an article i posted back in like April. Schools would benefit the most, imo. Knowing in 24 hours or more is, frankly, one of the biggest reasons we are where we are. Especially now having to wait in hour long drive thru lines for tests. Like you said, people are just over it and just go about their business until they can't.

Bingo 100%. While not the immediate wipe out of a vaccine, the low-cost (or even free) quick test would be a game changer. Imagine kids or employees/etc. taking their 5 minute salvia test while getting ready in the morning -- positive you stay home, otherwise go off and be relatively normal at school, work, etc. Same with visiting at-risk people or at hospitals. No shut-down required except for mass people packed together like sporting events, concerts, etc. (maybe limited). But i guess there is not the glamor of a vaccine.
 

Jason Squirties

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Bingo 100%. While not the immediate wipe out of a vaccine, the low-cost (or even free) quick test would be a game changer. Imagine kids or employees/etc. taking their 5 minute salvia test while getting ready in the morning -- positive you stay home, otherwise go off and be relatively normal at school, work, etc. Same with visiting at-risk people or at hospitals. No shut-down required except for mass people packed together like sporting events, concerts, etc. (maybe limited). But i guess there is not the glamor of a vaccine.
edit* apparently that's a bit too edgy to get a preview(I think bc he's smokin drugs) but it's titled "Writing your congressman on Salvia". There's a series of them, pretty entertaining if you haven't seen it.
 
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KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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Bingo 100%. While not the immediate wipe out of a vaccine, the low-cost (or even free) quick test would be a game changer. Imagine kids or employees/etc. taking their 5 minute salvia test while getting ready in the morning -- positive you stay home, otherwise go off and be relatively normal at school, work, etc. Same with visiting at-risk people or at hospitals. No shut-down required except for mass people packed together like sporting events, concerts, etc. (maybe limited). But i guess there is not the glamor of a vaccine.
I think something like this might even be more effective if it was done in a screening room (or say and open air area) outside a business. You want to go to work today, step right up and get your test.
 
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Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
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12.7% positives today

Hosp up from 746 on Friday
and ICU up from 195 on Friday
upload_2020-12-7_12-23-46.jpeg


Rolling 7 day

Mon:0
Sun:15
Sat:15
Fri:17
Thu:8
Wed:1
Tues:0


New average is 8, up from on 3.71 on Friday

200.gif
 
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