General COVID-19 Talk #3 NHL Qualifiers begin August 1 MOD Warning

[Raccoon Jesus]

This narrative originated in a CNN interview of a travel nurse in South Dakota. It may be another situation similar to that nurse in Chicago back in April who made some wild claims that turned out not be credible.

FACT CHECK: CNN's Viral COVID-19 Nurse Might Have Overembellished A Bit

CNN's South Dakota Nurse's Story Unravels Even Further, and It Just Gets Strange

RedState used to be a legitimate conservative site pre-Trump. Now it's mostly a useless MAGA clickbait site. But it looks like it may have engaged in a random act of journalism here. This type of story is just too good to fact check for CNN and other similar news outlets.

Not suggesting things aren't worse in the Dakotas, but I doubt there are many people whose last words are along the line that COVID is a hoax.

Okay--let's say that particular story is exaggerated. You have medical personnel in this very thread echoing the sentiment and more than an ample supply of people calling it a hoax publicly even as they pass. Hell, we hit fast forward on the Hermain Cain chapter and mashed right through a bunch of public officials contracting the virus and here we are. There are more than a few pages of high-profile similar cases of deniers.

While I appreciate the fact check of the one particular story that wasn't even the one I was referencing, this is being a bit obtuse in order to deliberately miss the point--that there are WAY too many people out there--especially at this point!--dismissive of COVID's simple existence, including those in leadership positions in said state, and this dereliction of leadership all around is harmful in so many ways.

 

[HeadInjury]

Okay--let's say that particular story is exaggerated. You have medical personnel in this very thread echoing the sentiment and more than an ample supply of people calling it a hoax publicly even as they pass. Hell, we hit fast forward on the Hermain Cain chapter and mashed right through a bunch of public officials contracting the virus and here we are. There are more than a few pages of high-profile similar cases of deniers.

While I appreciate the fact check of the one particular story that wasn't even the one I was referencing, this is being pedantic in order to deliberately miss the point--that there are WAY too many people out there dismissive of COVID's simple existence, including those in leadership positions in said state, and this dereliction of leadership all around is harmful in so many ways.

It's posts like this that led me to stop bothering contributing to this thread. Can't even have a civil discussion anymore. Say something that's plainly just a factual FYI and the response is a personal insult.

So long.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's posts like this that led me to stop bothering contributing to this thread. Can't even have a civil discussion anymore. Say something that's plainly just a factual FYI and the response is a personal insult.

So long.

I'm not going to apologize for having a different viewpoint and for you trying to miss my viewpoint. There was literally nothing offensive in my post other than calling out your diversion. I said the fact check was nice, even. My point was simply that faulty leadership = faulty results and that discrediting one example of many, many examples is missing the forest for the trees.

Yeah, if that was too heated for you, it's probably best if you get some fresh air. Peace.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

@HeadInjury I have not read the article or had a chance to watch any videos but if you want to read about nurses and MDs and their experience with Covid and hoaxes, just log onto Twitter. Type in Hoax, ICU, intubate and nurse or RN, MD and you'll start digging. #MedTwitter is where a bunch of health care workers go to complain. You'll read about HCPs reactions to what is happening.

 

[KINGS17]

Okay--let's say that particular story is exaggerated. You have medical personnel in this very thread echoing the sentiment and more than an ample supply of people calling it a hoax publicly even as they pass. Hell, we hit fast forward on the Hermain Cain chapter and mashed right through a bunch of public officials contracting the virus and here we are. There are more than a few pages of high-profile similar cases of deniers.

While I appreciate the fact check of the one particular story that wasn't even the one I was referencing, this is being a bit obtuse in order to deliberately miss the point--that there are WAY too many people out there--especially at this point!--dismissive of COVID's simple existence, including those in leadership positions in said state, and this dereliction of leadership all around is harmful in so many ways.

Hmm, I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe if someone is taking a person's quotes out of context, it may seem this way. For example, President Trump never called the virus a hoax, yet many claimed he did. I don't think someone who fails to wear a mask should be considered a virus denier. Granted, I believe it is a poor decision, but the virus is very real and an overwhelming percentage of Americans know it.

Fact check: Biden ad misleadingly suggests Trump called Covid-19 a 'hoax' - CNNPolitics

 

[Lt Dan]

Over 200k cases today.

I hate to sound like Princess Leia but Pfizer-Wan Kenobi may be our only hope

 

[Master Yoda]

People seem to have different definitions of hoax.
What most of the so called deniers mean when they say it's a hoax is that it's not as bad as the media is making it out to be.
That the world isn't ending because of COVID.

And what the media tells you is that when these people say it's a hoax, the media says these people don't think COVID is real or that it doesn't exist, which is pretty much putting words in people's mouths.

The difference in opinions is the degree of impact it has on a person's health, not whether it exists.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hmm, I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe if someone is taking a person's quotes out of context, it may seem this way. For example, President Trump never called the virus a hoax, yet many claimed he did. I don't think someone who fails to wear a mask should be considered a virus denier. Granted, I believe it is a poor decision, but the virus is very real and an overwhelming percentage of Americans know it.

Fact check: Biden ad misleadingly suggests Trump called Covid-19 a 'hoax' - CNNPolitics

Literally google "covid denier dies." It's not an exaggeration. Yes, as HeadInjury points out some of them need fact checked. Yes, as Master Yoda points out, there are different degrees of denial. But ultimately--it's all splitting hairs because the main point is that we're dealing with such disinformation and shit leadership that even at this advanced stage of domestic and worldwide virus and death spread, you have leaders openly defying logical safety regulations. It's asinine, and it spawns the many many pages of idiots linked in that search. I'm pretty sure each one of us has at least a story or two of something similar at this point. One of my best friends even here in socal (Riverside Co) has had to deal with 3 separate patients who were upset at him wearing PPE and to leave them alone about this bullshit flu, just give them the medicine (hydrochloroquine in two cases) so they can go home because this isn't a real issue.

When there's such a preponderance of evidence it's seriously pedantic to comb through individual cases to look for something wrong with what shouldn't be a controversial claim: we need better leadership and too many Americans are still acting the fool.

 

[KINGS17]

Literally google "covid denier dies." It's not an exaggeration. Yes, as HeadInjury points out some of them need fact checked. Yes, as Master Yoda points out, there are different degrees of denial. But ultimately--it's all splitting hairs because the main point is that we're dealing with such disinformation and shit leadership that even at this advanced stage of domestic and worldwide virus and death spread, you have leaders openly defying logical safety regulations. It's asinine, and it spawns the many many pages of idiots linked in that search. I'm pretty sure each one of us has at least a story or two of something similar at this point. One of my best friends even here in socal (Riverside Co) has had to deal with 3 separate patients who were upset at him wearing PPE and to leave them alone about this bullshit flu, just give them the medicine (hydrochloroquine in two cases) so they can go home because this isn't a real issue.

When there's such a preponderance of evidence it's seriously pedantic to comb through individual cases to look for something wrong with what shouldn't be a controversial claim: we need better leadership and too many Americans are still acting the fool.

I wouldn't believe everything you read based on this type of search. As political as the virus has become, I don't trust the media on creating this type of list.

What safety regulations? I haven't seen any new laws written. Do any of these lists you found have Gavin Newsom's name on them, because by your definition of "denier" it would seem to me he should be right up there at the top of the list along with his medical experts for the shenanigans they all pulled recently. Chris Cuomo (Governor Self Righteous's brother) should also be found there as well, since he was asked repeatedly by the management of his apartment to wear a mask in elevators and other common areas of the building.

The "medical authorities" sort of lost their credibility at the outset of this thing when they told the American people wearing a mask would do nothing to protect anyone. Had they been straight from the outset and told everyone, "Don't go out and horde the masks, because we don't have enough to go around, and medical professionals taking care of patients must have them."

Your friend ran across three people who were stupid. Really out of how many patients treated? If you are expecting 100% compliance to your way of thinking on this thing, you are in for a lot of disappointment.

One would think idiot politicians and un-elected government officials would have learned by now that the way to get Americans to follow reasonable guidelines is to ask them for the sake of their family members, friends and neighbors to take standard precautions. You chances of success are much greater doing it this way, instead of issuing orders and mandates. Leaders not being f'ing hypocrites might also help. That would be better leadership. It's still a free country.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I wouldn't believe everything you read based on this type of search. As political as the virus has become, I don't trust the media on creating this type of list.

What safety regulations? I haven't seen any new laws written. Do any of these lists you found have Gavin Newsom's name on them, because by your definition of "denier" it would seem to me he should be right up there at the top of the list along with his medical experts for the shenanigans they all pulled recently. Chris Cuomo (Governor Self Righteous's brother) should also be found there as well, since he was asked repeatedly by the management of his apartment to wear a mask in elevators and other common areas of the building.

The "medical authorities" sort of lost their credibility at the outset of this thing when they told the American people wearing a mask would do nothing to protect anyone. Had they been straight from the outset and told everyone, "Don't go out and horde the masks, because we don't have enough to go around, and medical professionals taking care of patients must have them."

Your friend ran across three people who were stupid. Really out of how many patients treated? If you are expecting 100% compliance to your way of thinking on this thing, you are in for a lot of disappointment.

One would think idiot politicians and un-elected government officials would have learned by now that the way to get Americans to follow reasonable guidelines is to ask them for the sake of their family members, friends and neighbors to take standard precautions. You chances of success are much greater doing it this way, instead of issuing orders and mandates. Leaders not being f'ing hypocrites might also help. That would be better leadership. It's still a free country.

I definitely agree take it with a grain of salt. Some of them are BS or sensationalist at best and as you point out the media can't help itself. I'm just saying there are plenty of well vetted and public stories that can be corroborated with our own eyes and ears and supported with our own experiences.

I'm not pardoning Newsom here, this isn't a partisan thing. He's not practicing what he's preaching either, that's a huge failure of leadership by example. And I'm definitely not pardoning the WHO or even the CDC. I'm not being coy when I say it's a systematic failure of leadership, I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

No, I'm not expecting 100% compliance. Dude, you are looking really really hard for something to 'lol librul' me on here. It's not about compliance, if you at least believe that Covid is a thing and just don't like the regulations that's one thing. If you're actively denying that it's even dangerous and that you are offended because your treatment specialist is wearing PPE because you think it's not an issue, that's a problem. That's not a 'difference of opinion,' that's a difference of reality, and that's the real issue here, some people seem to think "freedom" is an uncheckable right to be irresponsible, which is fine if you live off in the woods but not when you're contagious with thousands of contacts.

Yes, I think we've learned a lot about this country and leadership (or lack thereof) throughout this whole affair. But it is truly a systematic breakdown. Leaders being hypocrites? Check. Constant reversals of course? Check. However, the people themselves unfortunately will not follow the simplest f***ing common sense guidelines, hence the orders and mandates, which of course will not be followed either. Curse of freedom I guess. But if the leaders are doing the same thing, yeah, even the staunchest defenders of their actions are going to facepalm.

I should note this conversation in general is less about California and more about the Dakotas. Newsom is shooting himself in the dick with his actions, but those governors are in total 'f*** it' mode and have been. I guess they're not hypocritical, just ignorant, but I'm not sure what's better: "do as I say but not what I do," or "do whatever you want, you're all lethal killing machines, have fun, let's rack up the world high score per capita."

 

[KINGS17]

I definitely agree take it with a grain of salt. Some of them are BS or sensationalist at best and as you point out the media can't help itself. I'm just saying there are plenty of well vetted and public stories that can be corroborated with our own eyes and ears and supported with our own experiences.

I'm not pardoning Newsom here, this isn't a partisan thing. He's not practicing what he's preaching either, that's a huge failure of leadership by example. And I'm definitely not pardoning the WHO or even the CDC. I'm not being coy when I say it's a systematic failure of leadership, I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

No, I'm not expecting 100% compliance. Dude, you are looking really really hard for something to 'lol librul' me on here. It's not about compliance, if you at least believe that Covid is a thing and just don't like the regulations that's one thing. If you're actively denying that it's even dangerous and that you are offended because your treatment specialist is wearing PPE because you think it's not an issue, that's a problem. That's not a 'difference of opinion,' that's a difference of reality, and that's the real issue here, some people seem to think "freedom" is an uncheckable right to be irresponsible, which is fine if you live off in the woods but not when you're contagious with thousands of contacts.

Yes, I think we've learned a lot about this country and leadership (or lack thereof) throughout this whole affair. But it is truly a systematic breakdown. Leaders being hypocrites? Check. Constant reversals of course? Check. However, the people themselves unfortunately will not follow the simplest f***ing common sense guidelines, hence the orders and mandates, which of course will not be followed either. Curse of freedom I guess. But if the leaders are doing the same thing, yeah, even the staunchest defenders of their actions are going to facepalm.

I should note this conversation in general is less about California and more about the Dakotas. Newsom is shooting himself in the dick with his actions, but those governors are in total 'f*** it' mode and have been. I guess they're not hypocritical, just ignorant, but I'm not sure what's better: "do as I say but not what I do," or "do whatever you want, you're all lethal killing machines, have fun, let's rack up the world high score per capita."

This wasn't my intent, and I apologize if it seemed that way. My criticism was intended to be directed at the electronic media in this country, and the kind of "gotcha" BS that is reflected in the kind of results one gets when you do the kind of search you suggested.

Regarding your point about the PPE a health care provider was wearing and their moronic patient's desire to have them remove it, I hope the health care provider simply let the patient know if they were going to be treated by that health care provider he/she would be wearing the PPE. It's certainly the right of the moron to refuse treatment and leave.

I agree, much of this is common sense.

My general position on this type of situation is personal responsibility is the key. Not much logic in the link below, especially from the plastic surgeon / bar owner.

North Dakota governor changes tack and issues mask mandate

 

[Keith Sweaty]

It's posts like this that led me to stop bothering contributing to this thread. Can't even have a civil discussion anymore. Say something that's plainly just a factual FYI and the response is a personal insult.

So long.

What personal insult did you pick up from that post?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This wasn't my intent, and I apologize if it seemed that way. My criticism was intended to be directed at the electronic media in this country, and the kind of "gotcha" BS that is reflected in the kind of results one gets when you do the kind of search you suggested.

Regarding your point about the PPE a health care provider was wearing and their moronic patient's desire to have them remove it, I hope the health care provider simply let the patient know if they were going to be treated by that health care provider he/she would be wearing the PPE. It's certainly the right of the moron to refuse treatment and leave.

I agree, much of this is common sense.

My general position on this type of situation is personal responsibility is the key. Not much logic in the link below, especially from the plastic surgeon / bar owner.

North Dakota governor changes tack and issues mask mandate

My apologies if I read right past it!

Which is the missing link unfortunately. I'm a big 'controlled lockdown' guy from the beginning, but even after a few months you and I agreed on okay let's open up with responsibility. Unfortunately, we're in a spot where people aren't exercising that view--so what do we do next? I don't want even tighter lockdowns, and you don't want people full-on middle fingering the idea of opening with responsibility...it's the worst spot!

 

[KINGS17]

My apologies if I read right past it!

Which is the missing link unfortunately. I'm a big 'controlled lockdown' guy from the beginning, but even after a few months you and I agreed on okay let's open up with responsibility. Unfortunately, we're in a spot where people aren't exercising that view--so what do we do next? I don't want even tighter lockdowns, and you don't want people full-on middle fingering the idea of opening with responsibility...it's the worst spot!

At this point if you are concerned about your own health, you have to protect yourself. There will be a small gathering of people in my family for Thanksgiving. Everyone who is attending will be under 60 years of age and generally in good health. None of the 80-year old grandmothers and aunts will attend. Instead, when dinner is done there will be five individuals wearing masks who will deliver Thanksgiving dinner to those who will not be attending.

If there is a family who doesn't choose to do something along these lines and has a large gathering which includes at-risk individuals, who am I to say no? If they don't understand the situation at this point and want to exercise the freedoms granted to them by The Constitution so be it. There can be consequences for taking the risk.

There may be some older individuals out there who feel this may be their last holiday season with their family. Maybe they would rather have the mercy of human closeness and love over 100% safety. I know if I was in the position of having to make such a decision, I wouldn't want some government bureaucrat making it for me.

 

[Schmooley]

A friend brought up an idea that if you think corona is a hoax or decide to risk your health to attend a rally, protest, large gathering etc. then you should waive your right to get medical care.

 

[Token]

Nietzsche and Buddha walk into Darwin’s bar.

The proprietor says: “Gentlemen, this round is on the house”.

Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

At this point if you are concerned about your own health, you have to protect yourself. There will be a small gathering of people in my family for Thanksgiving. Everyone who is attending will be under 60 years of age and generally in good health. None of the 80-year old grandmothers and aunts will attend. Instead, when dinner is done there will be five individuals wearing masks who will deliver Thanksgiving dinner to those who will not be attending.

If there is a family who doesn't choose to do something along these lines and has a large gathering which includes at-risk individuals, who am I to say no? If they don't understand the situation at this point and want to exercise the freedoms granted to them by The Constitution so be it. There can be consequences for taking the risk.

There may be some older individuals out there who feel this may be their last holiday season with their family. Maybe they would rather have the mercy of human closeness and love over 100% safety. I know if I was in the position of having to make such a decision, I wouldn't want some government bureaucrat making it for me.

I'm not a fan of the Thanksgiving 'regulations,' FWIW. I feel what people do in their own house is their own business (short of literal crime obviously). My viewpoint is more for people in public and businesses.

Hell my own parents are very much in the 'f*** it' phase of their lives, if they say they want thanksgiving, they're getting thanksgiving, and I get to be glad I've done everything in my power to protect them. But of course they're not also harassing businessowners in their free time.

 

[Lt Dan]

 

[LAKings88]

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told it’s no worse than the common flu or it will end after the election.

Everything is a judgement decision from going to a park, getting your hair cut, or eating in a fn tent restaurant with mask off breathing in the food-chomped air of those packed in with you. There damn sure are a large group of people out there who don’t believe in the severity of the pandemic and think communism is right around the corner due to any precautions instituted by the government.

 

[crassbonanza]

What most of the so called deniers mean when they say it's a hoax is that it's not as bad as the media is making it out to be.
That the world isn't ending because of COVID.

I almost completely stopped commenting on here, but this is my opinion. The WHO recently published this: https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf. The unstratified IFR according to the WHO is estimated to be ~0.2, which is not that extreme, especially when we know this disease disproportionately affects those of extreme ages who have comorbidities. This is a real disease, but we for certain overestimated the danger and the policies put forth are scary and are killing people as well. Questioning the extreme policies does not make you a Covid denier.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It's posts like this that led me to stop bothering contributing to this thread. Can't even have a civil discussion anymore. Say something that's plainly just a factual FYI and the response is a personal insult.

So long.

How could you possibly take that post as personally insulting?

 

[LAKings88]

I almost completely stopped commenting on here, but this is my opinion. The WHO recently published this: https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf. The unstratified IFR according to the WHO is estimated to be ~0.2, which is not that extreme, especially when we know this disease disproportionately affects those of extreme ages who have comorbidities. This is a real disease, but we for certain overestimated the danger and the policies put forth are scary and are killing people as well. Questioning the extreme policies does not make you a Covid denier.

Scary and killing people? What policies? Wear a mask, social distance, don’t spend a lot of time with groups indoors?

This is a disease that still kills people of all ages, hits minorities hard, is deadly to older people(not ok joy just say they are old anyway), and can cause long lasting issues.

I’m grateful it hasn’t killed more but 250,000 is nothing to blow off. Especially to those who have lost loved ones to it.

 

[crassbonanza]

Scary and killing people? What policies? Wear a mask, social distance, don’t spend a lot of time with groups indoors?

It is well established that lockdown policies have killed people. SAGE has talked about it, but do you not think that stopping healthcare has affected people? Beyond the rise in suicides and mental health consequences, we have statistical evidence of people suffering from lockdown policies.

This is a disease that still kills people of all ages, hits minorities hard, is deadly to older people(not ok joy just say they are old anyway), and can cause long lasting issues.

It is a disease that has a 0.2 IFR. It affects people who are older and have serious issues. These are facts.

I’m grateful it hasn’t killed more but 250,000 is nothing to blow off. Especially to those who have lost loved ones to it.

Over 2 million people die every year in the USA, do you worry about those?

 

[LAKings88]

It is well established that lockdown policies have killed people. SAGE has talked about it, but do you not think that stopping healthcare has affected people? Beyond the rise in suicides and mental health consequences, we have statistical evidence of people suffering from lockdown policies.



It is a disease that has a 0.2 IFR. It affects people who are older and have serious issues. These are facts.



Over 2 million people die every year in the USA, do you worry about those?

No, Coronavirus Is Not ‘Just Killing Old People’

ICN confirms 1,500 nurses have died from COVID-19 in 44 countries and estimates that healthcare worker COVID-19 fatalities worldwide could be more than 20,000

More people have died from Covid-19 than in the past 5 flu seasons combined - CNN

 

[LAKings88]

To your first point. People’s fear may be keeping them from treatment or appointments by choice but I highly doubt that has caused mass death.

Secondly, it is deadlier to elders as much as anything is when you get older. Doesn’t stop younger people from dying or spreading it to their elderly loved ones. It’s not ok to just write the elderly off either. Also, this disease can give young healthy people long lasting life altering side effects.

Your third point is just stupid. This conversation is in context of a pandemic.