GDT: October 29 | Ak Bars Kazan - Vityaz Podolsk

[ult]

KHL 2013/2014 Regular Season

October 29 Game Day

Highlights:
KHL.RU; Youtube.com

*Time Converter

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Ak Bars Kazan vs Vityaz Podolsk

October 29, 2013
19:00 MSK | 17:00 CET

Tatneft Arena (8774), Kazan

Streams:
KHL.RU; OnHockey.TV; LiveTV.ru​

Click to read more...

 

[cska78]

wow, vit'ky

 

[ult]

And the difference between 4th and 12th in the West is just 3 points.

 

[cska78]

And the difference between 4th and 12th in the West is just 3 points.

once we get Jokerrit next year and mb a german team - the west will be insane.

 

[Faterson]

West and East need to be cancelled. We need divisions, not conferences. Like the NHL: finish in top 3 in your division, move on to play-offs. Wild card teams are debatable.

 

[obskyr]

West and East need to be cancelled. We need divisions, not conferences. Like the NHL: finish in top 3 in your division, move on to play-offs. Wild card teams are debatable.

Sounds boring. You'd end up with the same teams in the first round every year.
And in the KHL there are basically just six wildcards instead of two.

 

[Faterson]

You'd end up with the same teams in the first round every year.

Who said so? I really don't believe that. Take a division like:

Slovan
Lev
Riga
Donbass
MedveÅ¡čak
Minsk
whatever

Which are "the same 3 teams in the play-offs every year"? I can't see them. Slovan was a play-off team last season, and Minsk was on the brink of play-offs.

Divisions like these might foster good "regional" rivalries. I'd certainly appreciate if Slovan played more than just 2 games per season against Lev. Makes little sense that Slovan plays as many games against Lev as against Vladivostok this season.

 

[alce*]

Who said so? I really don't believe that. Take a division like:

Slovan
Lev
Riga
Donbass
Medveščak
Minsk
whatever

Which are "the same 3 teams in the play-offs every year"? I can't see them. Slovan was a play-off team last season, and Minsk was on the brink of play-offs.

Divisions like these might foster good "regional" rivalries. I'd certainly appreciate if Slovan played more than just 2 games per season against Lev. Makes little sense that Slovan plays as many games against Lev as against Vladivostok this season.

And you gonna give 3 assured places in play-off to this division?
I wouldn't give them even one such place. Yes, Riga is very good this year, but last year they were just pathetic and no one can guarantee that they can maintain their form next season. Other teams here are just mediocre now.

So Russian teams would compete for playoff with leaders like CKA, Dynamo, AK bars, Salavat, CSKA, Traktor, Magnitka and foreign teams would be competing with outsiders like themselves? Not seems neither fair nor interesting for me.

Current structure of KHL is much more balanced, so there is no point to change it. Unless, of course, someone wants to drag some teams in playoff, even if such teams don't deserve it.

 

[Atas2000]

Very typical for us this year. In a tough game we're doing good. Once we get ahead by 2 or 3 guys start to loosen the grip. No focus -> no D -> stupid mistakes -> loss. Makes me worry about the playoffs.

I expected Vityaz to be more intense though. They got crushed until the 3:0, then basically capitalized on the mistakes by our D.(How in the world Tokranov got the invite to the 2nd NT is beyond me.).

Yep, it's the KHL. Every team can score if you stop playing defence. AkBars needs to work on that focus thing before playoffs. Maybe ask Vityaz how you stay focused even being down by three.

 

[Faterson]

What are you talking about, alce? 4 (or 5!) of those teams are currently in play-off spots, and Slovan with Minsk were there or almost there last season, so your objection makes no sense.

Also, why are you mixing up current western and eastern teams... there would be at least 3 more divisions, that's 9 guaranteed play-off spots for Russian teams & Astana.

Plus, I would be for distributing the 4 remaining wild cards league-wide regardless of division, so there would be 4 more play-off spots available for Russian teams/Astana if they collected more points than teams from the western-most division.

 

[Atas2000]

once we get Jokerrit next year and mb a german team - the west will be insane.

Looking at how Slovan and Lev are "progressing", no, I don't think so. There is a long road ahead of the newcomers to build really strong teams. You can't build a winner in a day.

I have hopes for Jokerit because of the heritage. A german team will be a bottom feeder like Admiral and Amur for a couple of years at the very least.

And sorry to maybe touch a sore spot, what the hell is CSKA doing? I expected them to build a contender, not deal away core players to rivals(Ryasensky) and replace them with nothing.

 

[Faterson]

A german team will be a bottom feeder like Admiral and Amur

You mean, like MedveÅ¡čak which crushed CSKA 7-1? I wonder where you're getting these assumptions from. Surely no one expected Slovan to finish 6th in the West in their first season, but they did. The same can happen with MedveÅ¡čak and a German KHL team.

That is one more reason to give 3 guaranteed play-off spots to the Western-most division, to intensify the regional rivalries there. Because otherwise, you know, it can well happen that the only 2 Russian teams in the West advancing to the play-offs, will be SKA and Dynamo Moscow, and the remaining 6 play-off spots will all go to non-Russian teams!

 

[alce*]

What are you talking about, alce? 4 (or 5!) of those teams are currently in play-off spots, and Slovan with Minsk were there or almost there last season, so your objection makes no sense.

Also, why are you mixing up current western and eastern teams... there would be at least 3 more divisions, that's 9 guaranteed play-off spots for Russian teams & Astana.

Plus, I would be for distributing the 4 remaining wild cards league-wide regardless of division, so there would be 4 more play-off spots available for Russian teams/Astana if they collected more points than teams from the western-most division.

Current playoff spots means nothing. It's places after regular season that matter. And even if four teams makes playoff this season it's not meaning that they would be deserving it next season. Because they don't compete for first places in conference playoffs now, they compete for the last places, admit it. If KHL would give them separate division, level of competition in it would drop tremendously. It's not good for the league at all, so I hope it'll never happens.

 

[alce*]

Because otherwise, you know, it can well happen that the only 2 Russian teams in the West advancing to the play-offs, will be SKA and Dynamo Moscow, and the remaining 6 play-off spots will all go to non-Russian teams!

If it ever happens, why not? They would deserve it then, so I'll be completely OK with it. Not that I think that it's possible in foreseen future though.

 

[Faterson]

they compete for the last places, admit it.

You've got to be kidding. There are 2 teams ahead of all others, that's it. All the other teams are competing for play-off ranks 3-8, so that's not "last places", but top places, conference-wise.

level of competition in it would drop tremendously.

On the contrary -- regional rivalries intensify the competitiveness tremendously. Look at the current Pacific division in the NHL. There would be a similar, exciting battle for the 3 guaranteed play-off spots in the KHL's western-most division.

 

[alce*]

You've got to be kidding. There are 2 teams ahead of all others, that's it. All the other teams are competing for play-off ranks 3-8, so that's not "last places", but top places, conference-wise.

Yes, I mean this. They compete for the last places in playoff. And not that they already win that battle. Riga is exception, but we cant be sure that DR would be as good next season.

On the contrary -- regional rivalries intensify the competitiveness tremendously. Look at the current Pacific division in the NHL. There would be a similar, exciting battle for the 3 guaranteed play-off spots in the KHL's western-most division.

We can't gather low level teams in one place and talk about raising competition. Why don't exchange them all with some teams from Luxembourg or Albania then? All teams have to win their playoff places in battle with all kind of opponents - strong, good, weak, and not only with weak and maybe good.

 

[obskyr]

Who said so? I really don't believe that. Take a division like:

Slovan
Lev
Riga
Donbass
MedveÅ¡čak
Minsk
whatever

Which are "the same 3 teams in the play-offs every year"? I can't see them. Slovan was a play-off team last season, and Minsk was on the brink of play-offs.

Divisions like these might foster good "regional" rivalries. I'd certainly appreciate if Slovan played more than just 2 games per season against Lev. Makes little sense that Slovan plays as many games against Lev as against Vladivostok this season.

And the whatever one is SKA, lmao.

Slovan would have more games against Lev if there were more divisional games in the regular season, which is a no-brainer after the olympics. Playoff format wouldn't affect Slovan schedule much, let's be honest.

 

[Faterson]

Yes, I mean this. They compete for the last places in playoff.

ROFL at calling ranks 3-8 "last places".

I'm convinced the current artificial separation into "West" and "East" is untenable in the KHL, if the KHL is to expand to the west in upcoming seasons. Future will tell.

 

[Atas2000]

You mean, like Medveščak which crushed CSKA 7-1? I wonder where you're getting these assumptions from. Surely no one expected Slovan to finish 6th in the West in their first season, but they did. The same can happen with Medveščak and a German KHL team.

That is one more reason to give 3 guaranteed play-off spots to the Western-most division, to intensify the regional rivalries there. Because otherwise, you know, it can well happen that the only 2 Russian teams in the West advancing to the play-offs, will be SKA and Dynamo Moscow, and the remaining 6 play-off spots will all go to non-Russian teams!

I mean Medvescak which has a losing record(especially on the big ice where they can't use the advantage of other teams being unprepared for small ice game) and crushed the struggling CSKA in a season opener. We lost our season opener to Neftekhimik. So what? We lead the conference now. Well CSKA is not. So I don't see how a single win against them is an indication for anything. You have ridic assumtions. Why wouldn't Slovan finish 6th in a then weak western conference? The thing is Slovan seems like back to Earth this season instead of improving on the first year performance. That's not asurprise. As I wrote, it takes more than a year to build a contender.

Medvescak will only fare well on small ice for now. Until they get figured out there also it is. They are a middle of the pack team. Their roster is btw much better than a lot of ppl think. Wesce, Allison, Linglet are proven KHLers who carried Torpedo for quite a while. I don't see how with these guys on the team they are good for nothing or "a bunch of AHLers" like some ppl suggest. It's not enough to be a serious threat in the playoffs though.

As for the format. I'm all for more regional rivalries in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. Playoffs are for the best teams. What's the fun of a western playoffs with 6 non-russian teams which would be blown away by Dynamo and SKA? If they can compete I'm all for it. I don't care who challenges SKA and Dynamo, russian teams or non-russian teams, but I want them challenged not ecorted to the conference finals. Last year none of the western teams could do this, russian or non-russian. And that was a bit boring.

btw you should have noticed by now, every team that plays SKA in the playoffs gets a huge bandwaggon, regardless of the team.

 

[Faterson]

Just to clarify my earlier concept. As I see it, there are 4 "natural regions" in the KHL, roughly described as follows:

• non-Russian Europe (might include Helsinki or Sochi)
• Moscow region & St. Petersburg (might include Helsinki for a great rivalry with St. Petersburg)
• Ural, etc.
• Siberia, Astana and Far East

It might be a rational arrangement if each of these 4 regions were guaranteed to send 3 teams to the play-offs. The remaining 4 play-off spots could be wild cards league-wide based on points won, so that, for example, a strong Moscow/St. Petersburg division might send up to seven teams to the play-offs.

 

[Faterson]

PS: Teams within the same division would play each other 4 times per season. 2 times (as now) against all other KHL teams outside one's own division.

 

[alce*]

Just to clarify my earlier concept. As I see it, there are 4 "natural regions" in the KHL, roughly described as follows:

• non-Russian Europe (might include Helsinki or Sochi)
• Moscow region & St. Petersburg (might include Helsinki for a great rivalry with St. Petersburg)
• Ural, etc.
• Siberia, Astana and Far East

It might be a rational arrangement if each of these 4 regions were guaranteed to send 3 teams to the play-offs. The remaining 4 play-off spots could be wild cards league-wide based on points won, so that, for example, a strong Moscow/St. Petersburg division might send up to seven teams to the play-offs.

Non Russian teams could as well leave KHL altogether, because in that case teams in Moskow/Piter region that don't make playoff would be stronger that team from non-Russian division that makes playoff. Sorry, but what's point in that? KHL extension are supposed for making the league stronger, and not for watering playoff down.

 

[Atas2000]

Just to clarify my earlier concept. As I see it, there are 4 "natural regions" in the KHL, roughly described as follows:

• non-Russian Europe (might include Helsinki or Sochi)
• Moscow region & St. Petersburg (might include Helsinki for a great rivalry with St. Petersburg)
• Ural, etc.
• Siberia, Astana and Far East

It might be a rational arrangement if each of these 4 regions were guaranteed to send 3 teams to the play-offs. The remaining 4 play-off spots could be wild cards league-wide based on points won, so that, for example, a strong Moscow/St. Petersburg division might send up to seven teams to the play-offs.

The "strong" Moscow/St.Petersburg division? What the 7 teams would be?

What you call the "Ural etc." would easily send 7 teams there in your formula instead.

It's not really well weighed. You can't go by geography alone.

The system is pretty good as it is now.

 

[Faterson]

The "strong" Moscow/St.Petersburg division? What the 7 teams would be?

I didn't say "the" strong, but "a" strong, meaning it was just an example. Any strong division could send up to 7 teams to the play-offs. But to take your example:

SKA
Dynamo Moscow
Jokerit
Loko
CSKA
Atlant
Severstal

That's pretty realistic, isn't it?

What you call the "Ural etc." would easily send 7 teams there in your formula instead.

"Easily 7"? I don't think so. I see Ak Bars, Salavat Yulayev and Magnitka. Torpedo was struggling last year, and Traktor is struggling this year -- they are by no means a cinch over teams like CSKA or Loko from the other division. Finally, Neftekhimik and Avtomobilist might continue to struggle. Overall, a balanced division, I'd say.

The system is pretty good as it is now.

For this season, I agree. But Helsinki are joining next season, which simply isn't fair to the current Western Conference play-off contenders. The competition will instantly get a lot fiercer compared to the Eastern Conference. And, the KHL intends to keep expanding westwards in upcoming years. You just can't keep on increasing the competition in the West only, without doing the same for the East. And it can't be done proportionately, if your primary goal is to expand westwards. That's why I believe it might be useful to cancel the conferences in the KHL, and establish 4 (later perhaps even 5) geographically based divisions instead, with 3 (later perhaps only 2) guaranteed play-off spots in every division. (The remaining wild card/s would be league-wide.)