GDT: GOT Episode 3 The Battle of Winterfell

[HanSolo]

Pretty vital, wouldn’t you say? Without it I’m not sure where we’d be at

I mean...yeah?

That would make more sense, but man, what a colossal failure of execution on their part, if that were the case. Your entire plan hinges on Jon (and I guess Dany as well?) staying back, you knew the Wights going up against your army was going to be rough, but that alone enough of a reason to pull you away from your one job that the entire plan rests on?

It's also kind of strange for the plan to revolve around the two dragons being the ones responsible for stopping the Night King, considering that they know that fire doesn't work on them (but is the most effective against the wights), that Dragon Glass/Valerian steel instantly works on them, and that the Night King was the only one who was a threat to the dragons. You would think that they at least should have had an understanding that the two dragons would split duties.

I think that's what Jon's attempted march to the godswood was going for. I don't think Jon believed that the Night King would raise the dead midbattle and Viserion would cut him off. As to Jon joining Dany, I think he was trying to protect her.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Considering how many people died in the battle, it is incredible that so many of the main characters survived.

I did overall enjoy the episode, but as others have mentioned, this show was best for the first three seasons. The further it has strayed from the books, the worse it has become.

I loved this show when it was so unpredictable. I've found the last couple of seasons incredibly predictable. Maybe I've just read too many theories over the years.

Part of this is that Martin used the first couple books/seasons to obscure what the show was really about and who the main characters really were.

The other part is that the showrunners do a poor job developing the plot on their own so the events in the show have become increasingly predictable.

 

[syz]

considering that they know that fire doesn't work on them

Do they? I can't remember. They know fire works on wights, I dunno if they established any precedent on Walkers.

At any rate, like I've said: according to the writers Dany and Jon being out riding dragons in the field was never part of the plan, but Dany got antsy and Jon went after her because... reasons. Then they got lost in the storm.

 

[Vex]

I was not a fan of the writing. The Dothraki charge was strategically dumb. Edd dying because he was distracted by helping a needy Sam was way too familiar from so many other shows and movies. Dragons are never used to incinerate the enemy until the battle has already started and the good guys are in a pickle. The Hound losing hope and needing to see a little girl fighting was a bit eye rolling. Some of the characters (especially Jaime, Brienne and Tormund) just fought all episode and were given hardly any moments for characterization. Theon's death would've had more purpose if he'd died at Bran's side, protecting him. Arya killing the Night King out of nowhere was silly and anticlimactic. In fact, the "plan" to make Bran bait to lure the Night King wasn't actually for the main characters, who all seemed to forget about it once the battle started, but simply for the writers to justify Arya knowing where to find him.

I'm surprised you folks haven't brought up the television device where a character asks a question to another character, but then it cuts to a different scene.

That's what the nitpicking of tropes has come to, in my mind, complaining that the television show is doing television things.

 

[Shareefruck]

I think that's what Jon's attempted march to the godswood was going for. I don't think Jon believed that the Night King would raise the dead midbattle and Viserion would cut him off. As to Jon joining Dany, I think he was trying to protect her.

So basically another Jon rides into save Rickon situation, huh?

What happened to the other dragon anyways? Seemed like its presence would have instantly resolved a number of the pivotal plot points (either saving Dany or distracting Viseron).

 

[SettlementRichie10]

And tropes are used to this day because they work.

And A Song of Ice and Fire originally became famous within the fantasy fiction community because it SUBVERTED those celebrated Tolkienian tropes. It was different. It was interesting and fresh. It didn’t have Generic Dark Lords and Human Maguffins and Cut the Head Off the Snake Plans.

Surely you can understand why a series famous for subverting fantasy tropes is now being criticized for falling back on said fantasy tropes, no?

 

[TJ21]

I just want to say, because I'll hold off on a full opinion until a second watch. While the first half of the battle was for the most part, filmed well, I legitimately was taken out of the immersion by not being able to see shit. That really, really f***ing annoyed me. I enjoyed the episode, I really did like it quite a bit, but when the snow storm came in and that entire 20 to 30 minute span where they're fighting in darkness and blizzard, I couldnt see a thing and it really, really pissed me off. If you're going to film a fight in the blizzard and darkness, why go with fast cuts for literally everything. It was infuriating, and it may seem nit picky but in a episode of this magnitude, I found it distracting to the point where I had to keep rewinding to see if I missed something.

 

[Vex]

And A Song of Ice and Fire originally became famous within the fantasy fiction community because it SUBVERTED those celebrated Tolkienian tropes. It was different. It was interesting and fresh. It didn’t have Generic Dark Lords and Human Maguffins and Cut the Head Off the Snake Plans.

Surely you can understand why a series famous for subverting fantasy tropes is now being criticized for falling back on said fantasy tropes, no?

No, I don't understand why folks are complaining that Jon, the Protagonist, didn't slay the Big Bad Evil Guy. Welcome to the conversation we had like two hours ago now about the series and its subversion of tropes.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I am actually pretty sure Jon not getting the kill is a subversion.

 

[Vex]

I am actually pretty sure Jon not getting the kill is a subversion.

That was my point.

Callback to my post from hours ago, it feels like.

Jon was the most pivotal character. None of this happens without him. Just because he didn't deliver the killing blow, it doesn't make his contributions worthless, and it doesn't negate his deeds. They won because of him.

And I thought Jon killing the Night King was "too obvious." Most of you folks complaining have brought up that Game of Thrones was all about subversion of tropes. That's the biggest one of all.

 

[Shareefruck]

Do they? I can't remember. They know fire works on wights, I dunno if they established any precedent on Walkers.

At any rate, like I've said: according to the writers Dany and Jon being out riding dragons in the field was never part of the plan, but Dany got antsy and Jon went after her because... reasons. Then they got lost in the storm.

Hmmm... Well, it was revealed in the Three-Eyed-Raven attack episode, their defense was a circle of fire, which they got through, and Bran can see everything everywhere throughout history, so I'd be surprised if he didn't know/inform everyone of something like that.

 

[HanSolo]

So basically another Jon rides into save Rickon situation, huh?

What happened to the other dragon anyways? Seemed like its presence would have instantly resolved a number of the pivotal plot points (either saving Dany or distracting Viseron).

So it could be a little hard to make out which dragon was which but basically Jon's Dragon plus Zombie dragon came in and were clawing at each other. Then Dany's dragon came in and started clawing at zombie dragon's back allowing Jon's dragon to bite half of the zombie dragon's face. But I think the wound's Jon's dragon took to the chest was too much pain to handle because he flew down and crashed to the earth. I'm sure by episode 4 when we see him flying again, he'll have recovered from those injuries. But basically what was left was zombie dragon wildly breathing it's blue fire (I liked the way this was animated because they made the dragon look crazed with pain), and Dany's dragon which got overtaken by a horde of wights, he flew off to shake them off then I'm not sure where he went while Jorah and Dany were fighting wights off.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

No, I don't understand why folks are complaining that Jon, the Protagonist, didn't slay the Big Bad Evil Guy. Welcome to the conversation we had like two hours ago now about the series and its subversion of tropes.

I’ve never once complained about Jon not slaying the Night King?

I’m complaining about the NK turning out to be just a Generic Dark Lord replete with poor and/or vague motivations and a predictable hubris related downfall.

I’m also complaining that the show blew its true emotional and narrative climax in Episode Three, and clearly is not in touch with its own internal stakes.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I just want to say, because I'll hold off on a full opinion until a second watch. While the first half of the battle was for the most part, filmed well, I legitimately was taken out of the immersion by not being able to see ****. That really, really ****ing annoyed me. I enjoyed the episode, I really did like it quite a bit, but when the snow storm came in and that entire 20 to 30 minute span where they're fighting in darkness and blizzard, I couldnt see a thing and it really, really pissed me off. If you're going to film a fight in the blizzard and darkness, why go with fast cuts for literally everything. It was infuriating, and it may seem nit picky but in a episode of this magnitude, I found it distracting to the point where I had to keep rewinding to see if I missed something.

That got on my nerves too. Although, I suspect a lot of it had to do with budget. A TV show just doesn't have the money to produce huge set pieces and massive battles. The blizzard and dark shots like they hide a ton of things. Granted, I think they went a bit overboard with it, and would have preferred a scaling down of the battle for better visuals. But hey, if they ever remake GoT as a film. Maybe we'll get to see all this done better.

 

[syz]

Hmmm... Well, it was revealed in the Three-Eyed-Raven attack episode, their defense was a circle of fire, which they got through, and Bran can see everything everywhere throughout history, so I'd be surprised if he didn't know/inform everyone of something like that.

Unfortunately Bran has only been informing people of things thus far when it serves the plot for him to do so. I mean Dany sat there looking awfully proud of herself for a while after setting the NK on fire and I was 99% sure that a spear was going to come flying out of it at some point... though plot armor kicked in and the spear missed this time.

 

[HanSolo]

FWIW, Sapochnik is also directing episode 5 which is likely the final battle. Also likely to be unencumbered by a heavy fog of war.

 

[The Hound]

I mean...yeah?


I think that's what Jon's attempted march to the godswood was going for. I don't think Jon believed that the Night King would raise the dead midbattle and Viserion would cut him off. As to Jon joining Dany, I think he was trying to protect her.

Night King Beyond-the-Wall and his WW’s were played up to be the boogeymen that end all, ultimately they ended up not really doing much of anything in terms of leaving an impact on some viewers, especially the NK himself, seeming more like filler was my point. Oh, Viserion and the wall, silly me.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The Night King is the GoT equivalent of the 2018-19 Tampa Bay Lightning

 

[Vex]

Night King Beyond-the-Wall and his WW’s were played up to be the boogeymen that end all, ultimately they ended up not really doing much of anything in terms of leaving an impact on some viewers, especially the NK himself, seeming more like filler was my point. Oh, Viserion and the wall, silly me.

This is the kind of complaint I just don't get at all. How... just how?

 

[Emperoreddy]

This is the kind of complaint I just don't get at all. How... just how?

Because they lost in episode 3 instead of 6.

 

[syz]

I’ve never once complained about Jon not slaying the Night King?

I’m complaining about the NK turning out to be just a Generic Dark Lord replete with poor and/or vague motivations and a predictable hubris related downfall.

I’m also complaining that the show blew its true emotional and narrative climax in Episode Three, and clearly is not in touch with its own internal stakes.

Thisssssss. f***. How are you going to spend this many years building up your cataclysmic enemy only to choose not to do anything re: motivations or characterization. I think this is where a lot of people are disappointed. There has been a lot of discussion almost since this series started wrt, like "what's the deal with the NK?" which developed into "what's the deal with the NK and Bran?" Lots of people were probably sitting through this episode repeating "what's the twist?" to themselves.

Turns out the deal is nothing and that there is no twist; he's just an angry ice zombie with a minor revenge backstory who wants to kill everybody but oops he got stabbed.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The only real issue I have with this episode is that, once again, D&D did not have the balls to unexpectedly kill off a major character. Jorah was a big character, but his death should not come as a surprise. Same goes for Theon. They played it safe.

Jon, Sansa, Daenerys, Tyrion, Jaime, Arya (The Original Six, basically) miraculously survived a battle where probably half of the forces perished.

 

[The Hound]

This is the kind of complaint I just don't get at all. How... just how?

Whoa. It’s more of an opinion, you know? I’m not taking the episode that serious, I’m just discussing it among people that seem offended by people’s opinions.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The only real issue I have with this episode is that, once again, D&D did not have the balls to unexpectedly kill off a major character. Jorah was a big character, but his death should not come as a surprise. Same goes for Theon. They played it safe.

Jon, Sansa, Daenerys, Tyrion, Jaime, Arya (The Original Six, basically) miraculously survived a battle where probably half of the forces perished.

Blame George for that one. The original 6 have always been safe until the very end.

 

[Shareefruck]

So it could be a little hard to make out which dragon was which but basically Jon's Dragon plus Zombie dragon came in and were clawing at each other. Then Dany's dragon came in and started clawing at zombie dragon's back allowing Jon's dragon to bite half of the zombie dragon's face. But I think the wound's Jon's dragon took to the chest was too much pain to handle because he flew down and crashed to the earth. I'm sure by episode 4 when we see him flying again, he'll have recovered from those injuries. But basically what was left was zombie dragon wildly breathing it's blue fire (I liked the way this was animated because they made the dragon look crazed with pain), and Dany's dragon which got overtaken by a horde of wights, he flew off to shake them off then I'm not sure where he went while Jorah and Dany were fighting wights off.

Ahh right, that's what that was. I saw one of them skidding down, but it wasn't obvious to me that it was because it was too hurt to fight. Seemed like it was just bracing itself from the collision or something.