TV: GDT. Game of thrones episode 2 discussion. Stay out of if you have not seen it!

[HanSolo]

Was that greyscale? I'd have to watch it again but I had thought it was more like a burn scar than greyscale...

It was definitely a burn scar. No way they give a commoner greyscale treatment when the Citadel was too scared to give it to Jorah.

 

[Tuggy]

 

[Carlzner]

Could they have made Grey Worm's upcoming death more obvious?

 

[chicagoskycam]

Bran is my favourite character right now and that's just recent for me, as he came back to Winterfell. Prior to that, I didn't like him as an actor or his storyline. He grew into the role nicely.

 

[max21]

Theirs a lot of speculation that the Night King won’t be in the battle for Winterfell but instead is on his way to Kings landing on the Ice dragon

 

[HanSolo]

I'm a bit torn to a degree about Dany. Like she has demonstrated kindness and done some tremendous deeds in her life. But at the same time the comparison to Viserys is apt. Probably not as f***ed up as to say she'd let a sibling get raped a hundred times if it got her a Throne, but in terms of entitlement. I really don't think she's demonstrated an ounce of humility once since getting Khal Drogo's trust. I'm starting to wonder if Dany didn't respect her brother and called him a fool because she felt he started making demands before he was in any kind of position of power to make such demands, like her.

I don't think the show runners want people to like Dany anymore. Also kind of get Tywin's words ringing eternal: "any man who must say he is the king, is no true king" works equally for women and she sure says it a lot.

 

[MAHJ71]

It was mentioned in this thread that Beric, Tywin, and Roose Bolton have the best speaking voices

I think Jorah might actually have the best one

I was just thinking last night Beric has the best voice on the show.

 

[Duke33]

Theirs a lot of speculation that the Night King won’t be in the battle for Winterfell but instead is on his way to Kings landing on the Ice dragon

I've heard that too, but, for what though? Burn KL to the ground? Turn it to ice? Kill everyone and reanimate them? The speculation that he'll somehow join with Cersei seems way too farfetched and honestly would be ridiculous if they went that direction. The Walkers and the NK have shown absolutely no compulsion to talk to anyone. They've just been wiping out everything they see/reanimating the dead. If they try to turn the NK into another political entity that would be hugely disappointing.

 

[Neutrinos]

I like the idea of the Night King hitting King's Landing while his army is attacking Winterfell, but it got me wondering how he can kill so many people in order to turn them into wights. If he just burns them with dragon fire, there won't be anything left to reanimate

So, here's a thought:

The Night King lands at the Red Keep. Is able to control The Mountain. And it's The Mountain that begins cutting through King's Landing

Maybe that's what The Hound meant when he said to him "You know who's coming for you. You've always known"

 

[HanSolo]

I was just thinking last night Beric has the best voice on the show.

I think ultimately Tywin was my favorite. Beric, Roose, and Jorah are close though. It's a strong asset to be able to command attention just with the sound of your voice. Helps to have other great acting qualities too.

 

[HanSolo]

I like the idea of the Night King hitting King's Landing while his army is attacking Winterfell, but it got me wondering how he can kill so many people in order to turn them into wights. If he just burns them with dragon fire, there won't be anything left to reanimate

So, here's a thought:

The Night King lands at the Red Keep. Is able to control The Mountain. And it's The Mountain that begins cutting through King's Landing

Maybe that's what The Hound meant when he said to him "You know who's coming for you. You've always known"

That was absolutely a reference to Cleganebowl. No way the Hound knew the Night King had plans for him.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I'm a bit torn to a degree about Dany. Like she has demonstrated kindness and done some tremendous deeds in her life. But at the same time the comparison to Viserys is apt. Probably not as ****ed up as to say she'd let a sibling get raped a hundred times if it got her a Throne, but in terms of entitlement. I really don't think she's demonstrated an ounce of humility once since getting Khal Drogo's trust.

I don't think the show runners want people to like Dany anymore. Also kind of get Tywin's words ringing eternal: "any man who must say he is the king, is no true king" works equally for women and she sure says it a lot.

Based on what though? I mean we had about 1 minute of screen time with her after the biggest bombshell ever was just dropped. Not long after Sansa told her the North wants to be free of her. I think she handled things pretty well-considering everything seems to be unravelling at once.

I don't buy into theories she is going to arrange for Jon's death. Also, where was the "I don't want the crown" from Jon in the last scene?

 

[Make]

I don't think the show runners want people to like Dany anymore. Also kind of get Tywin's words ringing eternal: "any man who must say he is the king, is no true king" works equally for women and she sure says it a lot.

Agreed. There haven't been many scenes where she has been likeable lately. Most of those scenes have been with Jon and are more about him than her. Even in this episode there was promise of a "softer" scene with Sansa but even that hit the rocks with the first disagreement. She's lost her ability to persuade people to join her cause. Of course, she can redeem herself with a selfless act in the battles to come. Right now it doesn't feel like she has anything special to offer as a ruler, whereas before you could imagine her growing into a good queen.

 

[Neutrinos]

That was absolutely a reference to Cleganebowl. No way the Hound knew the Night King had plans for him.

I didn't take it as a threat that The Hound was coming for him

It's obviously possible, but why wouldn't he say "You know I'm coming for you"?

 

[HanSolo]

Based on what though? I mean we had about 1 minute of screen time with her after the biggest bombshell ever was just dropped. Not long after Sansa told her the North wants to be free of her. I think she handled things pretty well-considering everything seems to be unravelling at once.

I don't buy into theories she is going to arrange for Jon's death. Also, where was the "I don't want the crown" from Jon in the last scene?

I don't buy that either. Dany may be entitled, ruthless, and ambitious to a fault but I don't think she's going to try to kill her last living kin who she actually likes a great deal.

All I'm saying is I think the show wants us to stop seeing Dany as the person who should be on the Throne and keep that attention on Jon who has essentially taken on the Aragorn role of reluctant ruler.

I don't think it's a failure in writing, I think it's done on purpose. And not just in this episode, mind you. I'm wondering if it's Dany's sort of reverse ramp up of good emotions that we had with many characters last night. Like we're all agitated with her and see her as this character unwilling to bend on her selfish ambition, and she dies in a heroic and selfless way. At this point I think that's the best thing for her character.

Agreed. There haven't been many scenes where she has been likeable lately. Most of those scenes have been with Jon and are more about him than her. Even in this episode there was promise of a "softer" scene with Sansa but even that hit the rocks with the first disagreement. She's lost her ability to persuade people to join her cause. Of course, she can redeem herself with a selfless act in the battles to come. Right now it doesn't feel like she has anything special to offer as a ruler, whereas before you could imagine her growing into a good queen.

Yes, see I wasn't somebody that disliked and constantly complained about Dany in the past. I was rooting for her because they gave us that side of her that indicated that she might be a good ruler. And she still probably could, but it's concerning that with death at their doorstep she can't stop being so focused on her ambition.

I didn't take it as a threat that The Hound was coming for him

It's obviously possible, but why wouldn't he say "You know I'm coming for you"?

I took it more as "you know who's coming for you, me. And you know what that means for you...what I'm going to do to you after I win"

Seems far more likely than "I had a prophetic vision about the Night King coming to turn you into a meat puppet and I know you had the same vision, and we both know it's true so. Suck it brother."

 

[Neutrinos]

At this point, I think Dany could go either way

Sure, she might end up being a villain that needs to be put down, but it's also possible the writers are taking a page out of the Sansa/Arya story line from Season 7, it's all just one big misdirect, and Dany will end up doing the right thing

 

[HanSolo]

At this point, I think Dany could go either way

Sure, she might end up being a villain that needs to be put down, but it's also possible the writers are taking a page out of the Sansa/Arya story line from Season 7, it's all just one big misdirect, and Dany will end up doing the right thing

They did talk about a bittersweet ending. If Dany has a key moment of heroism and gives her life in the process, that could hit the checklist.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I don't buy that either. Dany may be entitled, ruthless, and ambitious to a fault but I don't think she's going to try to kill her last living kin who she actually likes a great deal.

That's assuming she considers him kin in the first place.

 

[ecemleafs]

I've heard that too, but, for what though? Burn KL to the ground? Turn it to ice? Kill everyone and reanimate them? The speculation that he'll somehow join with Cersei seems way too farfetched and honestly would be ridiculous if they went that direction. The Walkers and the NK have shown absolutely no compulsion to talk to anyone. They've just been wiping out everything they see/reanimating the dead. If they try to turn the NK into another political entity that would be hugely disappointing.

I'd imagine the night king would be hesitant to take his weapon of mass destruction heads up into battle against 2 weapons of mass destruction. No one will be able to stop him in the south which has far more people and are totally unprepared for battle.

 

[Anthrax442]

 

[Saskatoon]

The ending of the show wont be very well received if it does happen. You dont slowly build a threat up right from the beginning of both the show and books, and then quickly extinguish it. It doesnt really seem like something Martin would write.

Good writing around military campaigns is something I think this show is somewhat lacking that is a bit more drawn out in the books. The Stark - Lannister war was more drawn out but after that its been mostly decisive one off battles. I would love a fighting retreat scorched earth war against the dead (scorched earth in this case would be burning all the dead so as to not give Night King new soldiers) but I don't think we are going to get that with only 4 episodes left. The war for the North (Boltons/Starks/Stannis) is quite different in the books so wouldn't be surprised if the show is different than the books in this regard if Martin ever finishes it.

maybe on the way south to kings landing, the crannogmen and the isle of faces come into play.

Could be but I don't think they are coming to Winterfell because Mereen left to be with her people. Reed's are bannermen to Stark so it is a bit odd they didn't march up to Winterfell but the show is taking this route for whatever reason. Reed's were absent from Battle of the Bastards as well.

I've heard that too, but, for what though? Burn KL to the ground? Turn it to ice? Kill everyone and reanimate them? The speculation that he'll somehow join with Cersei seems way too farfetched and honestly would be ridiculous if they went that direction. The Walkers and the NK have shown absolutely no compulsion to talk to anyone. They've just been wiping out everything they see/reanimating the dead. If they try to turn the NK into another political entity that would be hugely disappointing.

I agree the Night King has no desire to negotiate with the living. His sole goal is bring on the endless night and end all life. Bran even says as much.

 

[Jack Straw]

Theirs a lot of speculation that the Night King won’t be in the battle for Winterfell but instead is on his way to Kings landing on the Ice dragon

I don't see the point of that. He knows the biggest threats to him are in the North; Jon, Bran, and Dany and her dragons. KL at this point is nothing to him, if he gets past Winterfell he can take KL whenever he wants to. Also, if he were heading south I think Bran would know.

 

[HanSolo]

That's assuming she considers him kin in the first place.

She at least has a seedling of doubt to the truth of that. Still matters that she likes him and sees him for the man of honor and heroism that he is. I mean she said she loves him. Incestual connotations aside, that doesn't just melt away. Especially if she feels someone fooled Jon.

And beyond that she can only kill him by not helping him. If she's seen by anyone who survives this battle as having killed Jon Snow, she can kiss the North goodbye. I think every Northerner would rather be executed than bow to her after that.

 

[Duke33]

I'd imagine the night king would be hesitant to take his weapon of mass destruction heads up into battle against 2 weapons of mass destruction. No one will be able to stop him in the south which has far more people and are totally unprepared for battle.

Definitely a fair point and honestly this would be awesome to see if he did an end around like that. But do the WW know geography like that, with the cities, capitals, etc.?

I had said after the first episode I was surprised when Qyburn told Cersei about the Wall being breached and the WW coming through, there was no mention at all about Daenerys's third dragon being killed/turned. Even though Cersei made a point at the parley to wonder why only two were with Dany. You'd think if he knew or had heard about the Wall being breached he'd know how it happened and that the WW had a dragon now too.

It's fun to think about...but if he's obsessed about the 3-eyed raven he probably still makes some kind of strike at Bran directly....I dunno.

 

[HanSolo]

Definitely a fair point and honestly this would be awesome to see if he did an end around like that. But do the WW know geography like that, with the cities, capitals, etc.?

I had said after the first episode I was surprised when Qyburn told Cersei about the Wall being breached and the WW coming through, there was no mention at all about Daenerys's third dragon being killed/turned. Even though Cersei made a point at the parley to wonder why only two were with Dany. You'd think if he knew or had heard about the Wall being breached he'd know how it happened and that the WW had a dragon now too.

It's fun to think about...but if he's obsessed about the 3-eyed raven he probably still makes some kind of strike at Bran directly....I dunno.

Well...if the preview for next week is any sort of clue...the most important shot:

Spoiler

Jon unsheathing his sword with his biggest "oh f***" face yet in what looks like the Godswood. I think the Night King is there. Either that or it's a fake out and they send a huge mob of white walkers to bum rush Bran

Spoiler tag for those who didn't want to watch scenes from next week.