TV: GDT. Game of thrones episode 2 discussion. Stay out of if you have not seen it!

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The Hound

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I really hope HBO didn’t literally trash House Reed and the Crannogmen, I was hoping we’d finally see the mystery that is Howland Reed. It doesn’t look like it now, in the show anyway.
 

CupofOil

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Gwendoline Christie really nailed the Knighting scene. She really showed the apprehension at first that everyone was just playing a joke on Brienne like so many other people have during her life, followed by how appreciative and proud she was that Jaime was sincere and that everyone in that room respects her for who she is, something that she hasn't had much of in her life.

Honestly, that was one of the best scenes of the entire series for me. Both actors portrayed the emotions perfectly (she finally smiled) and it struck all the right chords with the timing, the music and the ovation the rest of the group gave after. Just fantastic all around and the perfect ying to the humor yang from that group.
 
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JetsWillFly4Ever

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So let me get this straight, people are outraged over Arya having a sex scene with fairly tasteful nudity (you don't really see anything) because they have watched her grow up from a small child, but I don't see people being outraged over her being a mass murderer and assassin. She first killed someone at 11 or 12 and has since killed dozens more people, some in brutal and twisted ways like cutting up 2 sons and feeding them to their father. If you are disturbed, outraged, upset, etc. by Arya as an adult having consensual sex with someone she has been in love with for years, but are in no way disturbed by the sadistic violence she has displayed, you need some serious reflection on your morals.


This is a black and white fallacy and a strawman, since no one has in any way argued for or displayed the reaction in your first sentence. Someone having the reaction in your first sentence is as misguided as the reaction in your second sentence. Like I said above, are you uncomfortable watching someone who is like a sister/daughter to you murder people and feed them to their relatives? Sex is a natural part of life and a normal and expected development for a character who is now an adult. As far as first sex scenes go, Arya has had one of the most tasteful and healthy sex scenes ever on the show.


Margaery and Tommen was supposed to be creepy when she went into his chamber when he was like 14 to start seducing him. I don't remember people still saying it was creepy a season later when he was ****ing her though, despite still being much younger than Arya is now.
I actually don't really agree with this.

This show isn't based in reality, nobody would actually be okay with someone murdering all kinds of people, but nobody expects normal morals in that regard because this show is all about murdering and death. I found the Arya seen awkward because she does still seem like a young girl who you have watched since she was 12. I have no problem with her having sex, I would have just cut away from the scene a bit earlier, but honestly not a big deal.

I have no issue with people finding that scene awkward, it was awkward, being outraged is over the top though.

Anyways. Great episode, the Brienne scene was amazing and the dialogue was much better than last week. Can't wait for the Battle of Winterfell.
 
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mjlee

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If Dany stopped thinking as a conqueror and started to think as the queen she claims she is, she'd see Jon as the answer to her prayers. To some extent the wheel has already been broken (I am only talking abut the show here obviously) but the Tyrells are gone, so are the Tullys (or did someone survive?) The Knights of the Vale are at Winterfell and the only Arryn left is a sickly feebleminded kid who knows if he's capable of siring heirs. Apart from Euron the only heir of the Greyjoys capable of siring an heir is Yara. Ditto with the Starks, given that Jon is a Targ. There are no male legitimate Martells left, Elia and her oldest daughter are prisoners of Cersei so the only 'Martells' are Oberons illegitimate daughters. The only Baratheon left is a bastard, Gendry.


From a dynastic POV (which is what began the Great Game), Dany's one great weakness has always been that she's barren. Up until Jon her oldest blood heir/relative was Gendry, since Robert ruled as a cadet branch, now gone, of the Targaryens. What she should do, if she's smart and with no messy emotions involved is marry off Sansa to Jon with greater autonomy for the North in return and their firstborn as her heir. Jon agrees to take the Stark name (which is really all he wants in any case) and abdicate his claim in favour of his oldest son. That way there will still be a Stark at Winterfell, Sansa can do the actual ruling while Jon does his honourable thing and rebuilds the Wall. Sansas children will be the undisputable heirs of Winterfell and the North as the children of the oldest female Stark, given everyone knows that Bran is not capable of siring heirs.

It's all about dynasty building people. For that you need fertile people of the right bloodlines. This generation whoever survives there will be quite a few men ruling jure uxoris. The Lannisters are in the best situation in that even if Cersei is deposed her child is the heir to Lannister as the child of the oldest Lannister son, Jamie.
 

Duke33

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My thoughts:

Part of me loved the episode. I really enjoy seeing all the characters from different plot lines, story arcs, geographies, etc. all be centered in one place and interacting. A lot of this episode had a nice, warm feeling to it which despite the slowness, I thought was really nice.

Of course part of me is still nitpicky. A lot of this still seems too rushed. I was hoping Jamie either during his trial or separately afterward, would have explained to Daenerys why he killed her father. Maybe he was saving that as his last bullet or something.

Also again maybe it's the military historian in me but their defense plans seem a little weak. You talk about Bran being the indispensable guy and you're going to protect him with Theon and his handful? Not Arya or The Hound or some of the really top of the line fighters? But I don't know, Bran seemed to be ok with it but maybe he figures the NK will get through them to him pretty quick and that's what he wants, the 1 on 1 confrontation?

Also, the dragons. They said something like the dragons will help control things in the field but how...are they planning on them making a few passes over the NK's army before they get mingled? No concerns over the NK or any of the other WW unloading more ice spears which took out Viserion? And no discussion of the NK's own dragon, which could be used to either fight/take out Dany's dragons, against the good guys infantry, or take the NK directly to Bran in minutes? Just seemed odd they didn't mention it.

Glad Ghost finally showed up lol.

Oh and I don't get the angst over Arya getting some. She's an adult now right? Good for her lol. She's been slaughtering people for years anyway, I'd say her maturity is well past child level at this point. I know she was a child when the show started but I guess I'm not emotionally invested that way like she's "mine".
 

Blender

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I actually don't really agree with this.

This show isn't based in reality, nobody would actually be okay with someone murdering all kinds of people, but nobody expects normal morals in that regard because this show is all about murdering and death. I found the Arya seen awkward because she does still seem like a young girl who you have watched since she was 12. I have no problem with her having sex, I would have just cut away from the scene a bit earlier, but honestly not a big deal.

I have no issue with people finding that scene awkward, it was awkward, being outraged is over the top though.

Anyways. Great episode, the Brienne scene was amazing and the dialogue was much better than last week. Can't wait for the Battle of Winterfell.
All the murdering she has done still isn't moral even in the Game of Thrones universe. Based on who she is, the fact that she had sex for the first time as an adult with someone she chose and liked is a rare exception, her more likely outcome as a child would have been to be married off to some other noble person in a political arrangement when she was 14 or 15.
 

Transplanted Caper

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On another note, they're not doing Theon/Sansa. That was just another reunion scene between people who have been through the wringer, together (although Theon did initiate a lot of the wringing early on, but never mind). Although this show has shocked before, Theon dying in service to the Starks is arguably the most obvious upcoming event in an otherwise murky idea of the various possible outcomes.
 
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Rabid Ranger

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On another note, they're not doing Theon/Sansa. That was just another reunion scene between people who have been through the wringer, together (although Theon did initiate a lot of the wringing early on, but never mind). Although this show has shocked before, Theon dying in service to the Starks is arguably the most obvious upcoming event in an otherwise murky idea of the various possible outcomes.

I agree. He'll die a hero in service to the Starks which is about as a good of a redemption as he can expect.
 
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Make

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I was hoping Jamie either during his trial or separately afterward, would have explained to Daenerys why he killed her father. Maybe he was saving that as his last bullet or something.

Now that you mentioned it, that's actually a pretty big missed opportunity for a great scene. I would have liked to see Jaime re-live those moments in the throne room and serve Dany some facts about her father. She could use some humble pie considering she's so obsessed with the Iron Throne. Her father didn't really do a great job about it towards the end.

The trial felt a little flat overall.
 
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Neutrinos

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It was mentioned in this thread that Beric, Tywin, and Roose Bolton have the best speaking voices

I think Jorah might actually have the best one
 

ecemleafs

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I really hope HBO didn’t literally trash House Reed and the Crannogmen, I was hoping we’d finally see the mystery that is Howland Reed. It doesn’t look like it now, in the show anyway.
maybe on the way south to kings landing, the crannogmen and the isle of faces come into play.
 

Rabid Ranger

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Now that you mentioned it, that's actually a pretty big missed opportunity for a great scene. I would have liked to see Jaime re-live those moments in the throne room and serve Dany some facts about her father. She could use some humble pie considering she's so obsessed with the Iron Throne. Her father didn't really do a great job about it towards the end.

The trial felt a little flat overall.

I agree. These are the types of areas where Dany is falling short. She keeps talking about a new future but keeps living in the past. Narrow-minded in a lot of ways. Actually reminding me more and more of her idiot brother. Demanding rather than inspiring/persuasive.
 

JetsWillFly4Ever

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All the murdering she has done still isn't moral even in the Game of Thrones universe. Based on who she is, the fact that she had sex for the first time as an adult with someone she chose and liked is a rare exception, her more likely outcome as a child would have been to be married off to some other noble person in a political arrangement when she was 14 or 15.
Yeah, that's a good point.

I don't think her murdering was too immoral, it was more vigilante justice gone a littttttle overboard lol.

Anyway, I just don't think there's anything wrong with people being awkward with watching that scene. Outraged? Yea that's way overboard. Awkward? That makes sense and as long as people can accept that it was awkward but can look at the circumstances and realize that, hey, all things considered that's pretty normal and get past their awkwardness there is nothing really wrong with that.
 

Duke33

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Now that you mentioned it, that's actually a pretty big missed opportunity for a great scene. I would have liked to see Jaime re-live those moments in the throne room and serve Dany some facts about her father. She could use some humble pie considering she's so obsessed with the Iron Throne. Her father didn't really do a great job about it towards the end.

The trial felt a little flat overall.

Exactly. I know Brienne could have mentioned it too but maybe felt it wasn't her place to say anything. It did seem flat and rushed, but some good points were raised in his favor. And of course Bran could have thrown him under the bus if he wanted to but didn't.
 

Mr Misunderstood

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Bran from left field shouting "The things we do for love." and Jaime's reaction made me laugh out loud.

Underneath the cool, "no one" exterior, Arya is still a human with human tendencies- wanting to be close with another, feeling attraction and pleasure. The scene was used to show that she is not a killing machine, very different that the WW and the army of the dead.

Lastly, if that little girl with the grayscale on her face talking to Davos does not kill a wight/WW or something like that in the crypts in an effort to save others, then it was too much of the "girls/women can do anything" narrative. We already have so many strong female characters that are pivotal to the story that we did not need another forced reminder.
 

JetsWillFly4Ever

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Bran from left field shouting "The things we do for love." and Jaime's reaction made me laugh out loud.

Underneath the cool, "no one" exterior, Arya is still a human with human tendencies- wanting to be close with another, feeling attraction and pleasure. The scene was used to show that she is not a killing machine, very different that the WW and the army of the dead.

Lastly, if that little girl with the grayscale on her face talking to Davos does not kill a wight/WW or something like that in the crypts in an effort to save others, then it was too much of the "girls/women can do anything" narrative. We already have so many strong female characters that are pivotal to the story that we did not need another forced reminder.
That scene was more about Shireen dude.
 
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HanSolo

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"The Lord of Light's going to wonder why he brought you back 19 times just to watch you die when I chuck you over this ****ing wall." :laugh:
That's probably his four best line behind

"you gonna die over some chickens" "someone is"
"f*** the king"
"many people name their swords" "bunch of :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:"
 
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Mr Misunderstood

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That scene was more about Shireen dude.

Just about Davos remembering and being protective over his "child" right? I understood that. But coming right on the heels of the three guys who were older and claimed "I've never been a soldier" acting scared of battle and having a small child wanting to serve made it seem a bit different.

I just want to see her again. I thought it was a good scene if she makes a valiant reappearance.
 

JetsWillFly4Ever

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Just about Davos remembering and being protective over his "child" right? I understood that. But coming right on the heels of the three guys who were older and claimed "I've never been a soldier" acting scared of battle and having a small child wanting to serve made it seem a bit different.

I just want to see her again. I thought it was a good scene if she makes a valiant reappearance.
Shireen also taught Gilly how to read so I believe the girl was mostly there to remind Gilly and Davos and the viewers of Shireen.

I didn't get any female empowerment feelings from that scene tbh.
 

Duke33

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Just about Davos remembering and being protective over his "child" right? I understood that. But coming right on the heels of the three guys who were older and claimed "I've never been a soldier" acting scared of battle and having a small child wanting to serve made it seem a bit different.

I just want to see her again. I thought it was a good scene if she makes a valiant reappearance.

Was that greyscale? I'd have to watch it again but I had thought it was more like a burn scar than greyscale...
 
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