GDT: Europa League Final - Liverpool vs Sevilla - St Jakob-Park, Basel, Switzerland

les Habs

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
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So you are telling me this game wasn't rigged for the Spanish team? It certainly seemed like it was. If not, what a big coincidence that the Spanish team gets every single controversy to go their way! :shakehead

I don't know. I doubt it though. Either way, again, I wasn't commenting on just that. You also posted the following:

-Generalization on timewasting as regards Spanish teams.
-Generalization on timewasting as regards South American teams.
-A gross exaggeration on one incidence of timewasting in the match.
-That European competitions are rigged for Spanish teams.

There's probably more too.
 

Vasilevskiy

The cat will be back
Dec 30, 2008
17,820
4,608
Barcelona
Sevilla DESTROYED Liverpool in the 2nd half, it could have easily been much more than 1-3... Liverpool looked like a bunch of amateurs in that 2nd half... I guess that early goal made a big impact on their moral and the reverse effect on Sevilla players.
All these posts in this thread of wasting time are just sour grapes... Sevilla wasted no time, and even if the referee had added 15 minutes of extra time it always was much closer to the 1-4 than to the 2-3.

That being said... the ref was a disgrace.
There was at least one clear cut hand ball and there's not even discussion, that's a handball and a more than likely goal for liverpool and with the sturridge one that's 2-0.
I will not comment on the other two hand-balls which are much tougher decisions for the ref and could have been either way... in my opinion there was just that hand-ball but there's so much difference to be up by two than by one in a final that I think the ref had a direct impact on the final outcome of this game... I think Liverpool wins it if they're up 2-0 to start the second half to be honest.

Lastly... what a freaking beauty by sturridge.
 

Vasilevskiy

The cat will be back
Dec 30, 2008
17,820
4,608
Barcelona
https://streamable.com/d5h7

This was one of them. Can't find the other.

Well, this is also as clear is it gets... I missed it when I went to the bathroom I guess... as I said on the previous post, the ref had too much of an impact in the game... a very very bad performance.
I feel bad for you guys, still you were on the lead and the team that came up in the 2nd half was a completely different one, in a bad sense
 

c3z4r

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
6,224
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in the world
So you are telling me this game wasn't rigged for the Spanish team? It certainly seemed like it was. If not, what a big coincidence that the Spanish team gets every single controversy to go their way! :shakehead

Howard Webb said he wouldn't have called those penalties on the BT stream. Guess he's also been bought by the Spanish FA in this conspiracy of yours.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,012
15,084
Glad to see Moreno being exposed as the fraud he is. Hopefully a 15 million pound summer move for Andrew Robertson beckons.
 

Epictetus

YNWA
Jan 2, 2010
16,273
377
Ontario
How can you say Sevilla wasted no time when two of their players were booked for time wasting? One of them seriously outrageous in that the player had to have a stretcher come out, only for him to then suddenly get up and be able to limp off.

I agree that everyone in general reverts to time wasting tactics, or some kind of gamesmanship in that regard, and this is definitely not representative of only Spanish teams, but that doesn't make it any less wrong. The referee only adding 4 minutes was more than questionable as well, regardless of whether Liverpool would score or not.

(I'm not saying this is why Liverpool lost and blah blah, but it just adds to the overall incompetence from the Reffing in this match).

Also, congrats to Sevilla since I didn't directly say it before. If Liverpool weren't in the final, I'd prolly be cheering for them. What they've done in the tournament over the years is admirable.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Lol if Webb is claimjng he wouldn't have called those he's only adding to his incompetence as an official. I wouldn't take it as any kind of vindication of the non-call.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,030
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LA
I guess being a ManU fan makes him unable to give his opinion as a former professional ref, since the bias towards Liverpool is too high.

He had a history of making bad calls when those two teams played each other. Also ruined the 2010 WC Final by being a complete coward who was afraid to make any call that would impact the game. You could cite somebody else if looking for affirmation instead of somebody who has an insignificant amount of credibility.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,228
23,101
New York
There's a problem with your first paragraph, as I previously noted. If Liverpool had been granted one of those penalties, the rest of the match would have also played out differently, and there would have been no guarantee that Sevilla would have had another hand ball and given another penalty.

Why would UEFA conspire to let Sevilla win? They have less exposure and far fewer fans than Liverpool.

Well, when talking about "what ifs", its impossible to say how the game would've played out, a ton of variables, I'm simply putting forth the argument that something seemed seriously off with the officiating. The score is irrelevant towards the argument I am making, but if you are to ask me my opinion on the end of 90 scoreline, I don't believe it would've had Sevilla winning in 90.

To answer your question about the rigging, I honestly don't know. It makes no sense to me either. This is the best head match official in the world. How does he miss two stone wall penalties, and possibly a third? Even on the third one, you can tell that he simply missed the incident. If he had properly seen it, at worst for Liverpool thats a corner kick. There's no way that should've been a goal kick. Giving a goal kick just proves that was yet another call missed. Also, how does that 4th official miss every call that should've went Liverpool's way but he sees correctly the one call that should've went Sevilla's way?

If its not rigged, its a terrible coincidence how all of this unfolded.
 
Last edited:

hatterson

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
34,953
12,226
North Tonawanda, NY
Conspiracy is silly.

It was just a horrifically reffed game (mostly the first half) and Liverpool happened to get the worst of the calls. It's like the the Jon Moss Leicester game a few weeks ago. There's no conspiracy, there's just a ref having one of his worst days of his career out there.
 

Pouchkine

Registered User
May 20, 2015
2,731
294
Webb is a disgrace, obviously Liverpool should have had at least 1 penalty and probably 2 BUT that doesn't explain why the team didn't came out to play in the 2nd half. Klopp what happened? Sevilla completely destroyed them in that 2nd half it was all class on display. Two superb high quality team goals and their fans more than held their own.
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
1,713
La Plata, Maryland
At the end of the day like I said Moreno and Mignolet needed to have a good game for us to win.

Moreno was atrocious. That he continues to play I blame completely on Klopp. He's been atrocious since joining Liverpool and he is more at fault for Liverpool losing this final than any ref, even egregious handballs aside.

If he's not replaced I have no hope for next season.

It's not like they have any other option. Brad Smith is abysmal
 
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Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
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La Plata, Maryland
Anyone using Howard Webb as support when Liverpool is involved is badly misinformed.

Better team in the second half. Easily. The collapse was terrible, but it's hard to not feel like it wouldn't have mattered as much were Liverpool rightly up 2-0 or 3-0 with some bookings to Sevilla defenders for blatant handballs.
 

Moncherry

Registered User
Feb 5, 2010
5,845
1,055
I don't see the Firmino incident as a penalty because of the handball but because of the foul.

The rest are explainable because he could have viewed the handballs as being unintentional or the ball striking their hands, rather than playing the ball. Doesn't make them the right calls mind you.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,228
23,101
New York
I don't know. I doubt it though. Either way, again, I wasn't commenting on just that. You also posted the following:

-Generalization on timewasting as regards Spanish teams.
-Generalization on timewasting as regards South American teams.
-A gross exaggeration on one incidence of timewasting in the match.
-That European competitions are rigged for Spanish teams.

There's probably more too.

Okay, so lets go one by one.

Lets start with central american teams wasting time. I said central american teams, not south american teams, although frankly a lot of south american teams are offenders of this as well. I don't know how much football you watch, but Central American teams are notorious for this, and get this tag all the time. Its nothing out of the ordinary. If you follow that region, you should know that.

Secondly, yes, I did say compare Spanish teams to Central American teams in that aspect. From what I have found, La Liga has a lot more of those players who use gamesmanship to draw yellows, waste time, get calls, etc. Thats my opinion, I don't know how it could be proven, but just my opinion. I don't see as much of that in Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A, Ligue One, etc.

Also, I was not generalizing based on one incident. There were many incidents in this match, and this is far from the first time I've watched a Spanish team play. I just find it annoying as a neutral to watch a game where there's hardly any football the last 30 minutes because the team thats leading uses these types of tactics to kill any type of football. I can appreciate good defensive football, not the gamesmanship. Besides, I have found in all leagues that when a team does this, the referee doesn't award proper stoppage time. I think that this game was another case of that. It should've been about double what it was.

Lastly, as I said to DM, it just seems like all too much of a coincidence that the best referee in the world and his crew made so many bad decisions against Liverpool and the one they got right on the night was an incident on the other side of the pitch that favored Sevilla. If its all just a big coincidence, I guess I'm wrong, but it seems very fishy, and football matches have been fixed before. This wouldn't be the first time. Best case scenario, you can say that the referees had an awful night and that severely influenced the result.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,030
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LA
Lastly, as I said to DM, it just seems like all too much of a coincidence that the best referee in the world and his crew made so many bad decisions against Liverpool and the one they got right on the night was an incident on the other side of the pitch that favored Sevilla. If its all just a big coincidence, I guess I'm wrong, but it seems very fishy, and football matches have been fixed before. This wouldn't be the first time. Best case scenario, you can say that the referees had an awful night and that severely influenced the result.

Where were you when Benfica played Sevilla in this two years ago? Benfica got screwed a whole lot worse and dominated that whole game.

Bad officiating just happens. Sometimes they want to make themselves the star, sometimes they don't see anything, sometimes it's because the referee is scared to impact the game. It just happens. I think it's the latter in this case.

Anyway, it was a great run to this and not one I'm likely to forget anytime soon. It may take a few weeks but I'll move on. Klopp did hero's work with this lot.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,228
23,101
New York
Howard Webb said he wouldn't have called those penalties on the BT stream. Guess he's also been bought by the Spanish FA in this conspiracy of yours.

I watched on a channel that had another former referee or officiating person, and he said that there were two penalties not called.

:p:
 

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