GB: World U18

Siamese Dream

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Jordan Cownie (8GP 4G 11A 15PTS) is now 4 points shy of tying Ben Davies (10GP 7G 12A 19PTS) for all-time point lead with GB U18. He's also just 1 assist shy of tying Ben Davies for all-time assists lead with GB U18.

What makes it even more impressive is that he's done that under the new format, while Ben Davies and co. played against hockey giants such as China and Serbia :laugh:
 

3 Minute Minor

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What makes it even more impressive is that he's done that under the new format, while Ben Davies and co. played against hockey giants such as China and Serbia :laugh:

Ye the point total record is going to be tough but still very much in reach. Should be interesting to watch.



I keep forgetting to set my alarm for the game tomorrow lol gotta get on that right now
 

3 Minute Minor

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HA! I woke up in time ;)

I love how now there's a clock on their stream. It was real annoying the first couple games without one
 

3 Minute Minor

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That was a pretty nice goal by the Romanian. GB top line keeps cycling real well but they aren't creating many scoring chances. Or Maybe they are and I'm just missing it because of the constant freezing of the stream ;)
 

3 Minute Minor

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These referees give me a headache. "Slashing" when a goalie covers it and you stand in front of him with your stick on the ice and a defender pushes your body into the goalie. "Tripping" when a player tries to jump around you and falls down like he got shot in the back. So silly
 

3 Minute Minor

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Shootout win.

No Cownie or Hook in the shootout seemed odd since it went 5 rounds. Goss didn't let in any shootout shots. Captain Floyd Taylor scored the only shootout goal
 

3 Minute Minor

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So now we need Hungary to lose both of their remaining games in order to get promoted as well as win our last game

ye they fixed this tournament by making it more competitive but the tournament is still broken. It's all but decided by day 2 who's getting promoted...

Odds of Hungary losing to Estonia? :laugh: you could bet a dollar and win a million if Estonia pulled off the upset
 

3 Minute Minor

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btw Lithuanian kid who chucked his stick at the official after the loss to GB, played today and got 6 minutes of penalties... I'm shocked he wasn't banned for life seeing as this is international hockey after all lol
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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ye they fixed this tournament by making it more competitive but the tournament is still broken. It's all but decided by day 2 who's getting promoted...

Odds of Hungary losing to Estonia? :laugh: you could bet a dollar and win a million if Estonia pulled off the upset

How is it broken? Outside of the fact it isn't decided by day 2 since all the games aren't played by that date, there will always be a couple of teams at these levels clearly higher than the rest.

No suprise to see Hungary dominate this event. Comfortably the best nation from top to bottom at international events.
 

3 Minute Minor

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How is it broken? Outside of the fact it isn't decided by day 2 since all the games aren't played by that date, there will always be a couple of teams at these levels clearly higher than the rest.

No suprise to see Hungary dominate this event. Comfortably the best nation from top to bottom at international events.

What's the point of a round robin if there's nothing afterwards? If you lose 1 game in the round robin you're done.
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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What's the point of a round robin if there's nothing afterwards? If you lose 1 game in the round robin you're done.

There are 6 teams in a division. All these teams play each other. I cannot think how this isn't fair. Infact, it derides in theoretically the fairest possible outcome.

There are a variety of obvious reasons why the top division has a knock-out phase. Since all teams cannot meet in a single league format because of the division size, it is not fair to conclude a winner from the format employed at lower levels, since not all teams actually meet. Hence, a knock-out procedure following the league format is a neccessity.

It is infeasible to make the top division a a league format only due to the amount of teams and scheduling issues. The players participating are also presumably important players in leagues and clubs with important political clout in the international political world of hockey. The top division is also a media spectacle, since the nations competing are presumably nations with greater hockey interest than in the tiers below.

Presumably, you're comments derive from the angle that Britain lost a game early on. All teams in this format have a balanced and equal opportunity of progressing/regressing. If you wish to say luck can shape results since the margins are small (because the best teams, usually somewhat clear of the bottom teams, only meet once) that can be countered by saying luck and random chance can also influence the result if extra games against one another are played. Who is to say that result is also "fair"? I dare say this wouldn't be a discussion if results had gone a certain way.

The only legitimate angle of complaint you could concieve here is that the tournament may be less exciting since it isn't always dictated by a final winner takes all game (Unless two undefeated teams meet at the end). From a consumption point, i understand this (though consumption isn't really all that important here given how low the division is and it's obscurity). It is however, unequivocally fair, and not broken.
 

Siamese Dream

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One of those rare occasions where I actually agree with J17 vs proclamation

If Hungary win all 5 of their games, they deserve to go up, I don't see how that isn't fair

And regarding the excitement point, the IIHF do actually try to schedule it so the top 2 seeds meet each other on the final day. GB finished 4th last year so are not one of the top 2 seeds.
 

3 Minute Minor

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Not gunna lie, I'm not sitting here and reading that entire post by J17. I can assume based off previous posts that it could have been summed up in 2 sentences but he feels the need to go on and on all the time lol

It's not much of a tournament, U18 or U20, if the tournament winning game could potentially be a 4-0 team vs. a 0-4 team. I would have rathered if Div 1 & Div 2 did the same as the top division, actually have a gold & bronze medal game & a relegation playoff.

You can say "well this isn't the top division and the quality of the teams differs greatly" but it's no different in the top division. An example would be the U20 top division this year. Germany & Latvia were destroyed and there's usually 2-3 teams completely out of contention going into the tournament. Latvia - 6GF 21GA & Germany - 4GF 26GA. They got the **** kicked out of them in the round robin but went to the relegation round with Slovakia/Finland and Latvia ended up the only team to get relegated. Canada went 4-0 in the round robin and ended up finishing 4th, they sure as hell didn't deserve a gold medal for their round robin play only. USA won the gold medal with a round robin record of 2-2. You find the best teams when they win when they're in do-or-die elimination games.
 

Siamese Dream

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If you're gonna ignore what I said I will say it again. These tournaments are all funded by the IIHF, they pay the arenas for the ice time and all that stuff. Why would they want to waste money on the lower division who nobody really cares about?

It isn't broken, much more often than not the best team does get promoted. Hungary are a better team than us this year, they deserve to go up. The IIHF always schedules the #1 seed to play the #2 seed on the final day to add the excitement, so usually the only way it is decided early is if one of them is upset by another country in an earlier game. GB were weaker last year so it is unfortunate we did not get to play Hungary on the final day, but that is our fault for not being better last year.

One could also argue that because of this system every game is do or die just like the playoffs in the top division? Every game matters, one slip up and that's it. I would much rather have a system where every game means something.
 

3 Minute Minor

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If you're gonna ignore what I said I will say it again. These tournaments are all funded by the IIHF, they pay the arenas for the ice time and all that stuff. Why would they want to waste money on the lower division who nobody really cares about?

It isn't broken, much more often than not the best team does get promoted. Hungary are a better team than us this year, they deserve to go up. The IIHF always schedules the #1 seed to play the #2 seed on the final day to add the excitement, so usually the only way it is decided early is if one of them is upset by another country in an earlier game. GB were weaker last year so it is unfortunate we did not get to play Hungary on the final day, but that is our fault for not being better last year.

One could also argue that because of this system every game is do or die just like the playoffs in the top division? Every game matters, one slip up and that's it. I would much rather have a system where every game means something.

But that's the thing, not every game means something. Hungary beat Estonia 9-3 meaning they've already won the tournament. That's 3 game tomorrow with 0 meaning lol Croatia vs Lithuania meant nothing today as well.

The money part is meh to me. They (IIHF) make amazing amounts of money, they can afford to get all the division 2 teams in 1 location (they usually do 2 locations) and add on 10 more MEANINGFUL games, it's not that many, that's 5 extra games for each group in Division 1 & 2. Their funds aren't that tight when they sell 20K tickets for 1 U20 game in Canada lol
 

Siamese Dream

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But that's the thing, not every game means something. Hungary beat Estonia 9-3 meaning they've already won the tournament. That's 3 game tomorrow with 0 meaning lol Croatia vs Lithuania meant nothing today as well.

The money part is meh to me. They (IIHF) make amazing amounts of money, they can afford to get all the division 2 teams in 1 location (they usually do 2 locations) and add on 10 more MEANINGFUL games, it's not that many, that's 5 extra games for each group in Division 1 & 2. Their funds aren't that tight when they sell 20K tickets for 1 U20 game in Canada lol

But that is our fault, if we were better last year we would be playing them Saturday. We messed up the seeding by being bad last year. Not every game in the top pool means something either. The Lithuania v Estonia game tomorrow means something, leaving 2 games out of the entire tournament that don't mean anything, big woop.

Maybe the IIHF think your argument for more games is "meh" and the cost wouldn't justify the benefit.

Yeah you're pissed GB didn't win the group, but get it over it, nobody else is complaining. I accept we weren't the best team, I'm not going to scrape the barrel to find excuses and nitpick the system
 
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3 Minute Minor

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But that is our fault, if we were better last year we would be playing them Saturday. We messed up the seeding by being bad last year.

Maybe the IIHF think your argument for more games is "meh" and the cost wouldn't justify the benefit.

Yeah you're pissed GB didn't win the group, but get it over it, nobody else is complaining. I accept we weren't the best team, I'm not going to scrape the barrel to find excuses and nitpick the system

It's not your fault, you didn't play ;) Same can be said about most of the players on GB actually

The IIHF says & does a lot of stupid things as well, you can't deny that :laugh:

And no, I'm actually not pissed GB didn't win the group. I'm just glad I was able to GB games for once. All I said was that it's nice that the groups are now more competitive but the setup is still broken. I never liked the fact that the lower divisions don't have medal games. Doesn't matter if it's Division 1 Group A, Division 9 Group Z, I don't like that system. It's not much of a tournament if it's just a round robin. There isn't those meaningful games at the end that people would like to see.
 

Siamese Dream

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It's not your fault, you didn't play ;) Same can be said about most of the players on GB actually

The IIHF says & does a lot of stupid things as well, you can't deny that :laugh:

And no, I'm actually not pissed GB didn't win the group. I'm just glad I was able to GB games for once. All I said was that it's nice that the groups are now more competitive but the setup is still broken. I never liked the fact that the lower divisions don't have medal games. Doesn't matter if it's Division 1 Group A, Division 9 Group Z, I don't like that system. It's not much of a tournament if it's just a round robin. There isn't those meaningful games at the end that people would like to see.

Don't know what that's supposed to mean, looking at the faceoff stats all 4 lines were played.

Well you're alone there, barely any people from top tier nations actually care about or follow the lower tier tournaments. The people from lower tier countries are just perfectly happy to support our nation and cheer the lads on as a lot of us have close strong connections with the players. Obviously it is less exciting for you as an outside observer. As I said, the IIHF aren't going to care enough about what could make lower tier tournaments more exciting for the very tiny amount of outside viewers to justify spending more money on them. And they are right.
 
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