Gaudreau: Needs more muscle or he's just fine the way he is?

[Fig]

He needs to be stronger and 5 - 10 lbs heavier. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.

He does, but there is the idea that you could get stronger and heavier and lose aspects of your game. Being stronger is beneficial. I don't contest that. But heavier and more muscle for the sake of doing so might actually hurt the game rather than help it. Though I am probably fighting a semantics battle, I do think it is an item that should be properly defined.

JG can use more strength and mass, but not to the detriment of his overall game. He can use more if it enhances his current game.

Gully hinted at it when talking of Tkachuk's training regimen.

 

[djpatm]

I'm really curious to know what you think he does? You think the Flames let him get away without working out at all?

"Adding 5-10 lbs of Muscle" might not be hard for some but for people like myself and Johnny (I'm quite a bit taller than him but still small frame and fast metabolism) it can be incredibly hard to see real gains in weight. You don't know how much his strength has gone up or how strong he is relative to his body weight. If he's benching +130% of his body weight and squatting +140% of his body weight, he's crushing it in the gym but he's a small guy who even with that performance would still have a hard time not being pushed around by guys that are over 200 lbs.

Obviously getting stronger would be beneficial, I just don't know how you expect him to achieve significant gains without a complete change in lifestyle. With the amount of cardio he does and the calories he expenses he would have to eat like the Rock to gain significant muscle mass. Eating that much does not have positive effects on other aspects of life and frankly, you're essentially force feeding yourself to the point of sickness.

Again, I'm small guy I've personally tried to double my caloric intake (gradually) and every day that I would hit my target would end in extreme stomach pain and a river of diarrhea flowing out of me.

People seem to think that eating more is as simple as not eating, just the opposite, but it's a lot harder to eat past being full when you start to physically feel unwell and the effects of that than it is to simply stop eating and being hungry.

[mod]

TL : DR I'm sure the Flames have a proper work out plan for Johnny.

 

[Tofveve]

To me the only thing holding Johnny back is the slashing. Not how weak he is. If they call slashing like they used to he will be a top 5 scorer.

Slashing is a big deal, I agree.

But why couldn't he use getting stronger? We all see clearly that his shot isn't the hardest. And he's tiny, doesn't seem to have a lot of muscle strength.

 

[Tofveve]

He does, but there is the idea that you could get stronger and heavier and lose aspects of your game. Being stronger is beneficial. I don't contest that. But heavier and more muscle for the sake of doing so might actually hurt the game rather than help it. Though I am probably fighting a semantics battle, I do think it is an item that should be properly defined.

JG can use more strength and mass, but not to the detriment of his overall game. He can use more if it enhances his current game.

Gully hinted at it when talking of Tkachuk's training regimen.

This all seems like redundant, circular conversation.

He looks and plays the same as he did when he came into the league.

I'm not suggesting he bulk up at the expense of his strengths which is agility and speed. If I were saying 20 lbs I could understand the confusion. But 5 to 10 lbs for strictly strength seems completely reasonable to me.

 

[Tofveve]

I'm really curious to know what you think he does? You think the Flames let him get away without working out at all?

"Adding 5-10 lbs of Muscle" might not be hard for some but for people like myself and Johnny (I'm quite a bit taller than him but still small frame and fast metabolism) it can be incredibly hard to see real gains in weight. You don't know how much his strength has gone up or how strong he is relative to his body weight. If he's benching +130% of his body weight and squatting +140% of his body weight, he's crushing it in the gym but he's a small guy who even with that performance would still have a hard time not being pushed around by guys that are over 200 lbs.

Obviously getting stronger would be beneficial, I just don't know how you expect him to achieve significant gains without a complete change in lifestyle. With the amount of cardio he does and the calories he expenses he would have to eat like the Rock to gain significant muscle mass. Eating that much does not have positive effects on other aspects of life and frankly, you're essentially force feeding yourself to the point of sickness.

Again, I'm small guy I've personally tried to double my caloric intake (gradually) and every day that I would hit my target would end in extreme stomach pain and a river of diarrhea flowing out of me.

People seem to think that eating more is as simple as not eating, just the opposite, but it's a lot harder to eat past being full when you start to physically feel unwell and the effects of that than it is to simply stop eating and being hungry.

Frankly, I'd have more concerns about the rumored off-ice indulgences and a growing attitude problem on the ice.

TL : DR I'm sure the Flames have a proper work out plan for Johnny.

How old are you? Because JG is what, 23 or 24 now? Any body can put on muscle with the right diet and workout regime at that age.

And I agree that the Flames likely have a workout plan for him.

But what's wrong with me saying that he needs to put on 5 - 10 lbs of muscle? If the Flames are putting in a plan for that, great!

 

[Fig]

This all seems like redundant, circular conversation.

He looks and plays the same as he did when he came into the league.

I'm not suggesting he bulk up at the expense of his strengths which is agility and speed. If I were saying 20 lbs I could understand the confusion. But 5 to 10 lbs for strictly strength seems completely reasonable to me.

No not really. Though I cannot find the references at this point, I do believe there have been players whose games were affected by the way they conditioned. For instance, Iggy slimmed down after the lockout IIRC to increase his speed in games.

Bennett came in a lot bulkier and IIRC seemed to stumble out of the gate. He was slower in general and not as tenacious as he was in the previous year. His timing seemed off due to the speed difference. He seemed to improve over the season when he probably got into being more comfortable with his weight and strength.

But I'm ok with agreeing to circular conversation if I'm the only one who has an opinion on the semantics.

 

[djpatm]

How old are you? Because JG is what, 23 or 24 now? Any body can put on muscle with the right diet and workout regime at that age.

And I agree that the Flames likely have a workout plan for him.

But what's wrong with me saying that he needs to put on 5 - 10 lbs of muscle? If the Flames are putting in a plan for that, great!

I'm 27 now but I worked out the hardest I ever did in my life when I was 23. I've since given up on trying to gain mass and now just do strength training and am waiting patiently for the natural weight gain from your metabolism slowing down that happens as you get older that everyone keeps telling me about (tick tock ).

When I was 23 I was single and really wanted to gain weight. I had a diet plan to maximize calories, I drank mass building shakes every day and went to the gym consistently with a proper well researched plan. After a bit longer than a year I only gained 5 pounds and it wasn't noticeable at all but I was a lot stronger. I'm assuming Johnny is going through something similar.

He most likely will never be a stocky guy, but he could be gaining a lot of strength without it really being visible to us.

Would be really curious to know what they have him doing in the gym. They used to have specials during the PPV intermissions where they would talk to the fitness trainers about what they have the players do. If anyone is reading this from the Flames, bring those back!

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

No one is saying Gaudreau getting stronger would be a bad thing. We are just saying there is a way for him
To do that. But to go out and start lifting weights just to bulk up is stupid.

Lifting weights is less than 20 percent of a hockey players workout regimen. It's not football.

 

[Rubi]

No one is saying Gaudreau getting stronger would be a bad thing. We are just saying there is a way for him
To do that. But to go out and start lifting weights just to bulk up is stupid.

Lifting weights is less than 20 percent of a hockey players workout regimen. It's not football.

Absolutely. And there are different weight lifting routine. ie 3 reps of 100 lbs ea or 10 reps of 50 lbs ea.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

No one is saying Gaudreau getting stronger would be a bad thing. We are just saying there is a way for him
To do that. But to go out and start lifting weights just to bulk up is stupid.

Lifting weights is less than 20 percent of a hockey players workout regimen. It's not football.

This is false. Once again, it depends on what you're doing as a weightlifting regimen. If anything it's 50% at least of training involves some sort of weightlifting. Crosby didn't get humongous legs just from jumping, running or skating. There's a reason the guy is a monster with the puck.

I think you underestimate how much time professional hockey players put into lifting weights.


There is a reason why many hockey players flock to Gary Robert's workout heaven during the summer.

Look at this:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/sp...26297428/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

Five mornings a week, McDavid arrived by 7:15 at the fitness centre in the Toronto suburbs that Roberts uses as his summer base.

After dining on oatmeal, eggs and bacon or salmon prepared by a chef, the sportâ€Â™s most anticipated newcomer headed for the weight room for as long as two hours.

When he finished there, he joined a handful of fellow players in a 90-minute on-ice training session every other day. First, they skated in reverse. Then, they drove the puck down the rink at blistering speed. They did it until they were fighting to catch their breath, bodies hunched over and hands on knees.

Most days it was 11:30 before McDavid left for home, legs heavy and muscles sore. He understands it is the work that must happen before the real work begins.

He was headed into Grade 10 when he met Roberts, a veteran of 21 NHL seasons with bulging muscles and a history of turning at least one talented young runt, Steven Stamkos, into a well-chiselled superstar.

â€ÂœI was 15 and so nervous about meeting him,â€Â McDavid said of Roberts.

â€ÂœI was scared of what he might think and how he would judge me. But I was young then, and this is a different time now. As I have gotten to know him, I have realized Gary is very open and understands people are different. You have to look at Gary and the track record he has. I am very lucky to be aroud a guy like that.â€ÂÂ

 

[MonyontheMoney]

No one is saying Gaudreau getting stronger would be a bad thing. We are just saying there is a way for him
To do that. But to go out and start lifting weights just to bulk up is stupid.

Lifting weights is less than 20 percent of a hockey players workout regimen. It's not football.

Wrong.

 

[Bounces R Way]

It never hurts to add a bit of weight, especially in the legs. With Johnny I would just accept he's always going to be lean, genetics can only get you so far. Get real if you think players with million dollar contracts aren't doing their squats.

I don't often see him tire out in a shift, but the NHL is a different kind of physical this day and age. It would be good to see both him and Bennett come in with a bit more mass.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Wrong.

Proof? There is a reason hockey players aren't huge. Biking/Runnibg constitute at least 50 % of most hockey players regimen. Then you consider all the push-ups, jumping, core excercisrs, planks. Then you consider how much time they spend on stretching, balance and flexibility. Then yeah. I'd day 20% of the time is more then generous.

But what do I know I only played midget AAA.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Proof? There is a reason hockey players aren't huge. Biking/Runnibg constitute at least 50 % of most hockey players regimen. Then you consider all the push-ups, jumping, core excercisrs, planks. Then you consider how much time they spend on stretching, balance and flexibility. Then yeah. I'd day 20% of the time is more then generous.

But what do I know I only played midget AAA.

The proof was right in Ferkland's post above mine. But where's you're proof? Biking and running together probably constitutes much less of a players training than 50%. These guys aren't doing long duration training. The vast majority they do is going to be HIIT type stuff, which isn't lasting long durations of time.

When you're comparing them to NFL players of course they aren't going to look big, but google image search anything about hockey players training, and I can guarantee that there's more weights involved than a measley 20%.

I love when you mention that that you played midget AAA. It at least tells me I was a more successful hockey player than at least one person on here. That backfired, hey?

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

So you think 'going to the weight room for two hours' means more then 20% of his regimen is weights? That's just a synonym for saying he was working out. But sure saying that he's going to the weight room for a few hours is proof that more then 20% of his workout regimen is weights Let's see a breakdown of what you guys think it is. I gave mine. And honestly 50% cardio is probably low. It's probably more like 60+.

I trained to play hockey with an ex-NHLer who was also the coach of the Kelowna Rockets and president of the Okanogan Hockey school I think he knew what he was doing...

So you played in the WHL/BCHL/or AJHL? Cause I tried out for those teams but never made one. Midget AAA is nothing to laugh at...

 

[MonyontheMoney]

So you think 'going to the weight room' for two hours means more then 20% of his regimen is weights?

So you're saying that he does 8 hours of cardio and other stuff to every 2 hours of weights?

It's probably more like 60+

No it's ****ing not my dude. You have no proof.

I trained to play hockey with an ex-NHLer who was also the coach of the Kelowna Rockets and president of the Okajagon Hovkey schoolZ I think he knew what he was doing...

I thought I made this clear, but none of your not-so-subtle brags are going to impress me. Everything you've done, I've been there.

Just YouTube any NHL player working out. I saw a Subban one a while back, and you don't get to pushing that weight by hardly touching a weight.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Cardio, stretching, balance excercises, ropes, calesthenics, yoga, Pilates, running, biking, parachutes, flexibility. Hockey players are like ninjas.

good job dodging what league you played in.

Look up Andrew Ference. He had a great feature a few years back on his workout regimen. Ran up mountains and stuff like that was the vast majority of his regimen. Said he didn't even really go into the gym.

Get too big too fast and you start to lose muscle memory. Any elite athlete knows that.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I love when you mention that that you played midget AAA. It at least tells me I was a more successful hockey player than at least one person on here. That backfired, hey?

Maybe you both failed to make the NHL because you were working out wrong.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Cardio, stretching, balance excercises, ropes, calesthenics, yoga, Pilates, running, biking, parachutes, flexibility. Hockey players are like ninjas.

Cardio = running, biking, parachutes.
Stretching = flexibility, yoga
Balance is often easily encorporated into a weight routine. Bosu ball squats, single leg squats, etc.
Calisthenics also builds muscle (which seems to be your enemy), so why would they touch that and not weights?

Long story short, you listed 11 things that can be either grouped into 2 categories, or can be integrated into a weight program, or have similar outcomes to a weight training program.

So you're saying that cardio and stretching makes up for 80% of a hockey players off ice training? **** you're of your rocker. Even more than usual.

good job dodging what league you played in.

You edited your post to ask that after I replied [mod].

And unlike you I'm not going to use that as my only argument as to why I'm right. Or slam it in people's faces.

Get too big too fast and you start to lose muscle memory. Any elite athlete knows that.

I believe you mean the ability to move quickly and explosively? In which case, we aren't talking about guys who are getting up to 250+ pounds.

Besides, heavy compound lifting has been proven to be a great way to increase type II muscle fibres anyways, so if my assumption is correct, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

You still haven't provided any proof of your original claim, so unless you can do that this conversation is over, because it's quite clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Anglesmith]

I feel like this is a pretty odd topic to get worked up over. Maybe someone should just do some research and find an actual source detailing what kind of workout regimen is normal for the average hockey player, if that's interesting to you guys. Otherwise, there's no point blowing steam out of your ears over whose speculation is more correct.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Calisthenics is not weight training IMO, but yes, it is the most common way for hockey players to add muscle.

And again, not saying that weight training isn't important. It is. I think you are just extremely nieve to how varied players workout regimen is these days. Working on a balance ball is not weight training. Push-ups are not weight training. Yoga is not weight training. Not saying that muscle isn't important. It is. But it's about one of 5 things hockey players try to add.

But there's a way hockey players add muscle and it's not by lifting weights for 3 hours a day as some of you suggest. Do you know how muscular guys would be if they were lifting weights that much? But no, they focus on other things like flexibility, agility, and balance.

Too much muscle is cumbersome though, yes. Hockey players are lean. Go into a modern hockey dressing room. These guys are thin.

Honestly you guys just don't understand how varied hockey players workouts are.

Also, the whole ressson for this argument. Johnny with ten pounds more is still useless at the things he's useless at. Johnny is his own player and trying to put ten pounds on one of the best players in the NHL is frankly stupid. He needs to keep with his own routine and try to improve on his own existing numbers. Not try to pass some artidiavclky imposed target that might not even be positive for his game....

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

So you think 'going to the weight room for two hours' means more then 20% of his regimen is weights? That's just a synonym for saying he was working out. But sure saying that he's going to the weight room for a few hours is proof that more then 20% of his workout regimen is weights Let's see a breakdown of what you guys think it is. I gave mine. And honestly 50% cardio is probably low. It's probably more like 60+.

I trained to play hockey with an ex-NHLer who was also the coach of the Kelowna Rockets and president of the Okanogan Hockey school I think he knew what he was doing...

So you played in the WHL/BCHL/or AJHL? Cause I tried out for those teams but never made one. Midget AAA is nothing to laugh at...

Once, again, It depends on what you're doing for weight training. 50% of training should involve some sort of weight training while whatever you mentioned goes in the other 50%. Albeit, if you're in the gym for 1 hour, 2 hours, or 3 hours.

Proof? There is a reason hockey players aren't huge. Biking/Runnibg constitute at least 50 % of most hockey players regimen. Then you consider all the push-ups, jumping, core excercisrs, planks. Then you consider how much time they spend on stretching, balance and flexibility. Then yeah. I'd day 20% of the time is more then generous.

But what do I know I only played midget AAA.

You don't weight lift to get "huge" for hockey. You do it to get explosive, faster, more strength and more powerful. Sure, you might get "bigger", but not big as a football lineman.

Cardio, stretching, balance excercises, ropes, calesthenics, yoga, Pilates, running, biking, parachutes, flexibility. Hockey players are like ninjas.

good job dodging what league you played in.

Get too big too fast and you start to lose muscle memory. Any elite athlete knows that.

I'm not sure you have the right term. Muscle Memory is when you let's say you lift for 1 year and then decide to take 6 months off and decide to lift again. You come back and notice you aren't strong and lost muscle. But after a month of training it starts to comeback quicker than someone who is just starting out for the first time. Essentially, it's when you don't use it for a long time and then use it again.

Look, I'm in school for this kind of stuff and I'm working on a NCCP weightlifting certification in April. My professor was former weightlifter and was on the Canadian weightlifting team back in the 70s. He has helped train former NHL players in weightlifting when they were Junior players.

For example, how weightlifting can be beneficial. Look at this video of Eichel doing Hang Power Cleans at 16. It's starts off with him doing 275x3 and 300x1. Hang Power Cleans work on Explosiveness, speed and power. Notice how much weight he's doing and isn't "huge? He is very quick. Like a ninja even.

 

[Fig]

DIFFERENT DIRECTION... but on topic...


Would additional upper body strength allow JG move from an intermediate stick to a senior stick without affecting his game? Is there any inherent benefit from using a senior level stick vs his current intermediate stick?

Keep also in mind how superstitious many players are about their equipment. Changing something that currently "works" might not work out.


If you're reading this thread though JG, this song is for you.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Calisthenics is not weight training IMO, but yes, it is the most common way for hockey players to add muscle.

And again, not saying that weight training isn't important. It is. I think you are just extremely nieve to how varied players workout regimen is these days. Working on a balance ball is not weight training. Push-ups are not weight training. Yoga is not weight training. Not saying that muscle isn't important. It is. But it's about one of 5 things hockey players try to add.

But there's a way hockey players add muscle and it's not by lifting weights for 3 hours a day as some of you suggest. Do you know how muscular guys would be if they were lifting weights that much? But no, they focus on other things like flexibility, agility, and balance.

Too much muscle is cumbersome though, yes. Hockey players are lean. Go into a modern hockey dressing room. These guys are thin.

Honestly you guys just don't understand how varied hockey players workouts are.

Also, the whole ressson for this argument. Johnny with ten pounds more is still useless at the things he's useless at. Johnny is his own player and trying to put ten pounds on one of the best players in the NHL is frankly stupid. He needs to keep with his own routine and try to improve on his own existing numbers. Not try to pass some artidiavclky imposed target that might not even be positive for his game....

Who said they should lift for 3 hours a day? At that point, it's body building training which is a no go for hockey players. They could be in the gym for 1.5-2 hours lifting, and do the other stuff like stretching, agility, and etc. Believe it or not, but some some lifting techniques help with balance and flexibility. They are thin and lean, sure, but they have a a lot of leg strength from lifting weights. They didn't get it from balancing on a balance board, jumping, or stretching and only doing that. Stretching helps your muscles grow bigger too, especially the legs. Hockey players are training 4-5 times a week at least in the gym in the summer, but not 3 hours of lifting. During the season they also lift weights, but not as intense and long. Because if they didn't they would tire out faster easier as the season progresses.

And as for Johnny, he did start weight training this summer fwiw. And 5-10lbs over a couple of years is not a terrible thing. You guys are thinking he put's on 10lbs of upperbody strength which won't happen. He's not going to become Cammy.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Who said they should lift for 3 hours a day? At that point, it's body building training which is a no go for hockey players. They could be in the gym for 1.5-2 hours lifting, and do the other stuff like stretching, agility, and etc. Believe it or not, but some some lifting techniques help with balance and flexibility. They are thin and lean, sure, but the have a a lot of leg strength from lifting weights. They didn't get it from balancing on a balance board, jumping, or stretching. Hockey players are training 4-5 times a week at least in the gym in the summer, but not 3 hours of lifting. During the season they also lift weights, but not as intense and long. Because if they didn't they would tire out faster easier as the season progresses.

And as for Johnny, he did start weight training this summer fwiw. And 5-10lbs over a couple of years is not a terrible thing. You guys are thinking he put's on 10lbs of upperbody strength which won't happen. He's not going to become Cammy.

I agree with pretty much all of this. That said, I still think you underestimate how much time they spend specifically on cardio and flexibility/stretching. Things like Yoga have become such a large part of the modern player.

And then you consider the time they spend in physiotherapy as well. I still don't see how 20% is that low.