Garth Snow: Top 15 (16) or bottom 15 (16) GM in the NHL?

[MessierII]

One playoff round win in 10 years is all you need to know.

 

[Bronson]

Yeah check the team he inherited and the cheapskate who owned it.

 

[Its a Trap]

Yeah check the team he inherited and the cheapskate who owned it.

It’s been 10 years. That excuse ran out 5 years ago. You know, when they made the playoffs?

 

[Bronson]

Wang sold the majority of his shares four years ago.

 

[Its a Trap]

So what?

 

[boredmale]

It always makes me laugh looking at the last CBA that they made a few rules basically to stop "tricks" Snow used to get under the cap without actually paying people(basically he used bonuses that players would not reach to get over the cap floor). I mean that says something about a person when you have the league/NHLPA go after something you did to prevent it from happening in the future

 

[13th Floor]

It’s been 10 years. That excuse ran out 5 years ago. You know, when they made the playoffs?

Isn't it a little of Column A and a little of Column B? The roster and prospect pool that Snow got when he started was complete garbage. He then had to stay close to the salary floor and somehow attract players while also dealing with a relocation (which is actually still a major issue for him). Remember when the Isles signed Tim Thomas who couldn't play just so they could circumvent the floor?

So he built through the draft and that takes some time. So, fine -- throw out the first 5 years like you said. And look at the last 5:

2012-13: Playoffs. Lost to Pittsburgh in 6.
2013-14: Terrible year. And Tavares got hurt in the Olympics
2014-15: Playoffs. Over 100 points. Lost to Washington in 7.
2015-16: Playoffs. Over 100 points. Beat Florida in 6. Lost to Tampa in 5.
2016-17. Miss playoffs by 1 point in a tough division. Same number of points as the SC runner up.
2017-18: On pace for over 100 points again.

So on pace to average over 100 points in the last 4 seasons in the toughest division. Took him 5 years to get the shackles off once the team was sold to new ownership and build up the prospect pool,

He's had some wins and definitely has some misses.

Seems pretty middle of the pack for me when you look at the context surrounding the beginning of his tenure. Of course we want more than just 1 playoff win, but coming out of the first round of the Metro hasn't exactly been easy.

 

[boredmale]

2014-15: Playoffs. Over 100 points. Lost to Washington in 7.
2015-16: Playoffs. Over 100 points. Beat Florida in 6. Lost to Tampa in 5.
2016-17. Miss playoffs by 1 point in a tough division. Same number of points as the SC runner up.
2017-18: On pace for over 100 points again.

Should be noted these are the only years he actually had a competitive salary, the first year they made the playoffs and the year after they tanked it(Vanek Trade year) they still were in Cap Saving Wanger mode. I know he got some flack for signing Kulemin and Grabovski but it's much easier playing with those guys on your third line then a couple of scrubs at 1M each

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Barzal looks like he can be their 1B star, which Tavares has never really had, and Snow has always done a good job with low-round picks and depth guys.

That Nino-Strome-Reinhardt-Dal Colle combo of very high picks is a nightmare, especially considering what they got for Nino, but they should still be set up okay. From a platform of John Tavares, cap space, tanking, high picks and aptitude at picking up depth players they really could have been a monster.

 

[MatthewBarnabysTears]

Barzal looks like he can be their 1B star, which Tavares has never really had, and Snow has always done a good job with low-round picks and depth guys.

That Nino-Strome-Reinhardt-Dal Colle combo of very high picks is a nightmare, especially considering what they got for Nino, but they should still be set up okay. From a platform of John Tavares, cap space, tanking, high picks and aptitude at picking up depth players they really could have been a monster.

Except for the Tavares draft though, the Isles problem is also that they didn't really tank—Tavares aside, they drafted around 5th all those years they were bad. Yeah that should have been enough to draft more quality NHLers than they did, but it's not like they had a ton of top 3 blue chip picks.

 

[pucky]

He’s pretty ****ty. 1 playoff series win his entire tenure, more seasons out of the playoffs then in. I really don’t understand how anyone can claim the guy is a good GM. He should have been fired years ago. But I guess that’s a perk of being buddy buddy with the owner?

He made some good trades and picked a couple (?) of good players but he's had lots of time to improve the team and get them to the next level and they haven't.

 

[Coffey]

If Chiarelli doesn't exist, neither does Snow's job.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Top 1000 GM in US sports history.

 

[Bronson]

Fact: David Poile's Nashville Predators won their first playoff series in their 11th season as a team. By whatever weird metric you're using he should rank as the worst GM in the NHL.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Fact: David Poile's Nashville Predators won their first playoff series in their 11th season as a team. By whatever weird metric you're using he should rank as the worst GM in the NHL.

Have you seen our record this year? Garth Snow is unable to assemble a winning team, because he thinks defensemen and goalies are unnecessary.

 

[justafan22]

A perfectly average gm

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Garth Snow knows nothing.

 

[Critical13]

Before this becomes a thing in this thread, HE DID NOT SIGN DP. CHARLES WANG DID. Okay, thank you.

He's an interesting GM. The moves he makes are usually very good. Leddy/Boychuk trades, the 2009 draft (Tavares, deHaan, Cizikas, Lee), the Reinhart trade and the picks (Barzal/Beauvillier). the Hamonic contract and trade, plus others. I actually really liked the Vanek trade and still would make that trade from a value perspective today. I think he should have traded for a goalie instead, but the value given up for Vanek wasn't much.

It's his non-moves that always pissed me off. Never traded for a 2nd line center. Took FOREVER to trade for a top-4 defenseman. Could have signed a couple of free agents who signed cheap with other teams. He also flopped on three top-5 picks. Nino, Reinhart, and Strome. You can't do that. Dal Colle may end up joining that group, although I think he'll be an NHLer at some point down the road.

The worst non-move he made was not firing Capuano after 2012 and 2014. Especially 2014, which was when a bunch of great coaches were in the market.

I think he's run his course on the Islanders, but the Reinhart trade may very well have saved his job considering how good Barzal has been this year.

EDIT: Another thought. One non-move that will always bother me, and I will never forgive Snow for, was not trading for Brandon Saad in 2015. I know that the Blackhawks really wanted Artem Anisimov, but the Islanders could have easily beaten that package. Frans Nielsen (who he should have traded numerous times), Dal Colle (1 year after he was drafted), a 2016 1st round pick, maybe another prospect. I think he should have gotten a lot more aggressive in getting Saad, especially since I think he would have been amazing with Tavares.

That is some crystal clear hindsight right there.

I don't think I can put him top 15...some of his draft picks have been disastrous. I always don't think he's ever really tried to fix the goaltending. I am a little concerned that many Islanders players are overachieving this year and that could lead to more bad decisions.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is there still any defense for Snow as anything other than rating somewhere between average to "meh" as a GM?

At some point, the excuse about him having to operate under a budget for his first handful of seasons expires. He hasn't had budgetary constraints for awhile now, yet the team is no closer to a Cup contender as it was half a dozen years ago.

 

[And You Feel Shame]

That is some crystal clear hindsight right there.

I don't think I can put him top 15...some of his draft picks have been disastrous. I always don't think he's ever really tried to fix the goaltending. I am a little concerned that many Islanders players are overachieving this year and that could lead to more bad decisions.

Some of everyone's draft picks have been disastrous.

Garth's main flaw is that he never seems to have a backup plan. He was right not to bend on including Barzal for Duchene before the season, but he didn't have a fall-back for a 2nd line center. He had a succession plan at GT after Greiss played so well in the playoffs a couple of seasons back - Greiss plays out a year or two after Halak's contract expires and gives time for Soderstrom/Sorokin to mature and win the job - but then Greiss plays awful sine spring of last season and Halak not much better, and Soderstrom gets hurt... so there's a void in the plan with no Plan B. It's this way every time: Vanek, Tavares resigning, expecting Frans to resign, Hamonic - there's a never a plan for when something goes away from the expected path.

He drafts fine, he's made good moves and bad moves, taken on their own merit, but there is always that atmosphere of the team needing to play its best or they just won't win. By the ultimate measure - playoff success - he's been sub-par at best.

 

[And You Feel Shame]

Is there still any defense for Snow as anything other than rating somewhere between average to "meh" as a GM?

At some point, the excuse about him having to operate under a budget for his first handful of seasons expires. He hasn't had budgetary constraints for awhile now, yet the team is no closer to a Cup contender as it was half a dozen years ago.

This is pretty much on point, though I think they are *slightly* better off than they were then just based on the strength and depth of the prospects.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Seriously? He's awful and I can't imagine too many people putting him in the top 15 (I didn't read all 4 pages). If there are, of say they are few and far between.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s #15.5

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

He’s #15.5

You mean 31.5.
Zero ability to build a winner.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I would not want him back if I was a Isles fan. May be their biggest problem over the years.