Garth Snow: Top 15 (16) or bottom 15 (16) GM in the NHL?

[joemon999]

He's been GM of the Islanders for a while now. In his tenure, he has had some highway robbery trades, some bad trades, some homerun draft picks, some terrible draft picks, some amazing contracts, some bad contracts..

In your opinion, is Garth Snow a better than average GM? Or is he a worse than average GM? Explain why.

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[Philadelphia Ducks]

worse, team has accomplished nothing since he's been there. He's made the playoffs 4 times and missed is 7, and in those 4 times they've won a series once. If a GM gets his team to win one playoff series in 10 seasons, that's not good. I think he's been lucky having the owners he's had, not many would have kept him around this long.

edit: a lot will also depend on how the Tavares situation plays out imo.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Without Chiarelli, probably bottom 5.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It's a results oriented business. He's been pretty mediocre. Not the worst GM but bottom half.

 

[Dale Best Goalie]

Ehh the Isles haven't done much in his tenure but that isn't entirely up to him... I think he's had some great moves and some moves that weren't as good, but I think in general he's made more good choices than bad. Different story if he f***s up the Tavares situation, though.

 

[Baxterman]

Bottom 5 in my view.

Since he took over in 2006 the Islanders have missed the play-offs 7 time, made them 4 times. They have never made it to the Conference Finals and weren't really competitive the two times they made it to the 2nd round.

He, like many mediocre GMs, has had some hits and misses in the draft. I am not sure if it is a good thing or bad thing that misses seem to come from the high picks (reinhart, mdc, strome, Bailey) while he has had some good success with later picks (Hamonic, Nelson).

I can't remember all his trades (outside of the great Oilers rip-off) but I don't remember a ton of great ones and he really seems to have struggled surrounding a great talent like Tavares with even a competent team around him.

His head coaching hires seem to have been awful- Nolan, Capuano, Gordon and Weight- yuck. And free agents signings pretty underwhelming as well.

I imagine some Islanders fan will point out to a lot of individual deals or signings that worked out to make an argument for him as a good GM but I think if you look at him having 10+ years as a GM with Tavares there for ~9 of those years that is more than enough time to put your stamp on the team and during that time they have never once been close to a contender. I think they best they have finished is 3rd in their division with 1 season of 100 points. As mentioned 2 trips to the 2nd round, no CF, no SCF.

To me that just isn't close to good enough.

 

[Freudian]

He does seem to win his fair share of trades but that might be because he only trades when he think he wins. That might not necessarily be the trades his team needs.

The drafting has been spotty. If he didn't manage to turn a bad pick on Reinhart into a good trade, it would look even worse.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Trading with the Oilers: Best in the league. Everything else? Bottom 5, possibly bottom 3.

 

[ijuka]

He's good at fleecing Chiarelli but apart from that, I don't think very highly of him. Easily bottom 15 overall.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Bottom 5 in my view.

Since he took over in 2006 the Islanders have missed the play-offs 7 time, made them 4 times. They have never made it to the Conference Finals and weren't really competitive the two times they made it to the 2nd round.

He, like many mediocre GMs, has had some hits and misses in the draft. I am not sure if it is a good thing or bad thing that misses seem to come from the high picks (reinhart, mdc, strome, Bailey) while he has had some good success with later picks (Hamonic, Nelson).

I can't remember all his trades (outside of the great Oilers rip-off) but I don't remember a ton of great ones and he really seems to have struggled surrounding a great talent like Tavares with even a competent team around him.

His head coaching hires seem to have been awful- Nolan, Capuano, Gordon and Weight- yuck. And free agents signings pretty underwhelming as well.

I imagine some Islanders fan will point out to a lot of individual deals or signings that worked out to make an argument for him as a good GM but I think if you look at him having 10+ years as a GM with Tavares there for ~9 of those years that is more than enough time to put your stamp on the team and during that time they have never once been close to a contender. I think they best they have finished is 3rd in their division with 1 season of 100 points. As mentioned 2 trips to the 2nd round, no CF, no SCF.

To me that just isn't close to good enough.

Only one quibble.
Bailey was a great pick considering the other guys like Hodgson taken around him. And he's tearing it up this year too. A very impressive player.

 

[Baxterman]

Only one quibble.
Bailey was a great pick considering the other guys like Hodgson taken around him. And he's tearing it up this year too. A very impressive player.

I am not a fan of the "guys taken around him" argument but you are right he has turned it on the last two years. I was going off his performance prior to that and did sell him short.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Before this becomes a thing in this thread, HE DID NOT SIGN DP. CHARLES WANG DID. Okay, thank you.

He's an interesting GM. The moves he makes are usually very good. Leddy/Boychuk trades, the 2009 draft (Tavares, deHaan, Cizikas, Lee), the Reinhart trade and the picks (Barzal/Beauvillier). the Hamonic contract and trade, plus others. I actually really liked the Vanek trade and still would make that trade from a value perspective today. I think he should have traded for a goalie instead, but the value given up for Vanek wasn't much.

It's his non-moves that always pissed me off. Never traded for a 2nd line center. Took FOREVER to trade for a top-4 defenseman. Could have signed a couple of free agents who signed cheap with other teams. He also flopped on three top-5 picks. Nino, Reinhart, and Strome. You can't do that. Dal Colle may end up joining that group, although I think he'll be an NHLer at some point down the road.

The worst non-move he made was not firing Capuano after 2012 and 2014. Especially 2014, which was when a bunch of great coaches were in the market.

I think he's run his course on the Islanders, but the Reinhart trade may very well have saved his job considering how good Barzal has been this year.

EDIT: Another thought. One non-move that will always bother me, and I will never forgive Snow for, was not trading for Brandon Saad in 2015. I know that the Blackhawks really wanted Artem Anisimov, but the Islanders could have easily beaten that package. Frans Nielsen (who he should have traded numerous times), Dal Colle (1 year after he was drafted), a 2016 1st round pick, maybe another prospect. I think he should have gotten a lot more aggressive in getting Saad, especially since I think he would have been amazing with Tavares.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

I've been forced to defend him numerous times in the past.

Considering how much of a circus NYI can be, especially whne he first showed up, I think he's done alright. Certainly better than some of his peers. He's actually pretty good at trading but his draft record is hit-and-miss. He actually seems to do better when he doesn't have the top picks.

 

[joemon999]

I've personally always defended Garth because I love the identity of the team he built. But the others have a point. We havent really won much under him. But I honestly believe he's been so patient building this team right and I feel like its starting to pay off. If this team goes far this year, this isn't going to be a one hit wonder team. This is a team thats going to continously compete for the next decade with the youth they have (and assuming Tavares stays).

 

[LordNeverLose]

Bottom 5 in my view.

Since he took over in 2006 the Islanders have missed the play-offs 7 time, made them 4 times. They have never made it to the Conference Finals and weren't really competitive the two times they made it to the 2nd round.

He, like many mediocre GMs, has had some hits and misses in the draft. I am not sure if it is a good thing or bad thing that misses seem to come from the high picks (reinhart, mdc, strome, Bailey) while he has had some good success with later picks (Hamonic, Nelson).

I can't remember all his trades (outside of the great Oilers rip-off) but I don't remember a ton of great ones and he really seems to have struggled surrounding a great talent like Tavares with even a competent team around him.

His head coaching hires seem to have been awful- Nolan, Capuano, Gordon and Weight- yuck. And free agents signings pretty underwhelming as well.

I imagine some Islanders fan will point out to a lot of individual deals or signings that worked out to make an argument for him as a good GM but I think if you look at him having 10+ years as a GM with Tavares there for ~9 of those years that is more than enough time to put your stamp on the team and during that time they have never once been close to a contender. I think they best they have finished is 3rd in their division with 1 season of 100 points. As mentioned 2 trips to the 2nd round, no CF, no SCF.
To me that just isn't close to good enough.

How was Bailey a bad pick? He traded down twice (from 5 -> 7 -> 9) and ended up getting Bailey (who's over PPG this season after having 56 last) instead of L. Schenn, Filatov, Colin Wilson, or Boedker. So he traded down 4 spots and still got the better player Also for reference, in addition to those 4 picked before Bailey, the only guys taken in the next 10 picks still in the NHL were Myers, Karlsson, Gardiner, and Sbisa. This was not a good draft to be picking in the 5-20 range unless you were Ottawa.

And the fact that they've never finished above 3rd in the division is connected to being in the same division as Crosby/Malkin and OV/Backstrom

 

[Baxterman]

How was Bailey a bad pick? He traded down twice (from 5 -> 7 -> 9) and ended up getting Bailey (who's over PPG this season after having 56 last) instead of L. Schenn, Filatov, Colin Wilson, or Boedker. So he traded down 4 spots and still got the better player Also for reference, in addition to those 4 picked before Bailey, the only guys taken in the next 10 picks still in the NHL were Myers, Karlsson, Gardiner, and Sbisa. This was not a good draft to be picking in the 5-20 range unless you were Ottawa.

And the fact that they've never finished above 3rd in the division is connected to being in the same division as Crosby/Malkin and OV/Backstrom

I already stated that I was wrong about Bailey earlier in the thread.

And the Penguins/Capitals excuse is pretty weak as it just shows the teams aren't ever good enough to contend.

 

[Brian McDavid]

His trades with Chia alone put him in the top half.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Blows goats mediocre

 

[LeafFever]

He's bad, Just not nearly enough success.

 

[Devils090]

Once Tavares leaves he'll be canned, or should be anyway

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

Peter Chiarelli has honestly saved his career.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

He does seem to win his fair share of trades but that might be because he only trades when he think he wins. That might not necessarily be the trades his team needs.

The drafting has been spotty. If he didn't manage to turn a bad pick on Reinhart into a good trade, it would look even worse.

Agree with this. I would say bottom third among GM's based on struggles of early picks. (Strome, Reinhart,MDZ). Chia bailing him out on GR sure helps. Add in both JT, CDH and pretty sure Bailey are UFA's and I want to see what he is able to do to stabilize for the future.

I will say he has had a challenging situation starting with Wang and then having to deal with the stadium situation.

 

[King'sPawn]

He's definitely at that point where he should be evaluated based on results. I'd put him in the bottom half. Very mediocre at best.

 

[MR4]

He's 16th. In a 31 team league, that makes him both bottom 16 and top 16.

But really, I'd agree with bottom 3rd.

 

[nystromshairstylist]

No one can botch 3 out of 4 top five picks and still be considered a decent GM. I don't expect every pick to work out, but top five picks are usually fairly safe bets, at least to get a decent player and none of the 3 are even still with the team. What's utterly excruciating is seeing the picks he could have made instead...