Value of: Gardiner Should be shopped

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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I agree with this, provided you look at him correctly. Hes an offensive defenseman who has his defensive warts - as most O-Dmen do. There's nothing wrong with that.

His offensive game led him to be hyped as better than he is by Toronto fans, but most others on this board can't give him the credit hes due, either.

I'd say the opposite is true - the majority of Leaf fans don't understand how good Gardiner is. He had a horrible game 7 against Boston and for many people, he's not worth anything any more.
 

Starat327

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I'd say the opposite is true - the majority of Leaf fans don't understand how good Gardiner is. He had a horrible game 7 against Boston and for many people, he's not worth anything any more.

Im referring moreso to like 2 years ago when people were calling him a #1, or an elite #2. Maybe it was a little longer than that, i can't recall which season had people singing his praises I think since then, or at least from what i've seen on here, the perception has been knocked down to closer to reality.
 

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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Gardiner is likely to get between $6-7 million as a UFA this coming season. He most certainly has value.

My hopes, is that he is shopped in a deal that allows for the team to improve long-term. Even if it isn't a direct deal, where the assets obtained in a trade for him, are used to improve the Right Side, in an immediate and long-term manner.
 

YP44

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Toffoli + Muzzin for Kapanen + Gardiner + Conditional Pick (Sliding Scale based on how many rounds Toronto goes in the playoffs)
 

Gary Nylund

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Im referring moreso to like 2 years ago when people were calling him a #1, or an elite #2. Maybe it was a little longer than that, i can't recall which season had people singing his praises I think since then, or at least from what i've seen on here, the perception has been knocked down to closer to reality.

So you're talking about comments some people made years ago. Got it.
 
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Lupuls Grit

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Why trade him?! The Leafs should be trying to win a Cup this year - they are legit contenders. You lose him for nothing? Big deal, you've won a Cup and, if you don't, you can use the cap space or rely on upcoming prospects. To avoid calamity, you don't rely on him as a shut down defender in Game 7. You ADD to your defence rather than take away from it. Trade away a 1st or 2nd round pick and a prospect you w0n't need this year for a defence-first right handed shot (Tanev, etc) as has been discussed forever on these boards. The Leafs are done accumulating assets for the future. Time to cash them in over the next few years because prospect porn is fun but nothing beats a Stanley Cup parade! (Or so I've been told...)
 

Kupo

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I agree with this, provided you look at him correctly. Hes an offensive defenseman who has his defensive warts - as most O-Dmen do. There's nothing wrong with that.

His offensive game led him to be hyped as better than he is by Toronto fans, but most others on this board can't give him the credit hes due, either.

You're absolutely correct.

I also think a lot of the hate for him is because of the team he plays for.
 

Leon Lucius Black

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Nov 5, 2007
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You are getting close to the list man. All of your posts about the Leafs are of this nature, trying to bash the players and team.

Hainsey sucks, yes he does (although he has been good lately) and shouldn't be on the top pair. No one disagrees. Gardiner however doesn't fix that issue so it is unrelated. Zaitsev has been very good this year and was excellent as a rookie. I think you should be more informed about some of these things before you post them.

In the event Gardiner leaves it hurts for sure to lose a player like that but they will be fine, just like they are fine losing Bozak and JVR. Depth replaces him and Dermott looks like a very promising top 4 D long term. They have bottom pairing D in spades and their top end of the prospect pool is all D.

My point was Jake the Snake's defensive game gets overblown and if he had a more reliable defensive partner it wouldn't be a big deal, Toronto's right D is a mess and there isn't a reliable RHD on that roster that can be put with Gardiner to help mask his flaws and let him focus on offence.

They were fine losing Bozak/JVR because they got a proven player in Tavares, Dermott looks promising but he's not going to put up 50+ points a year.
 
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Kamiccolo

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My point was Jake the Snake's defensive game gets overblown and if he had a more reliable defensive partner it wouldn't be a big deal, Toronto's right D is a mess and there isn't a reliable RHD on that roster that can be put with Gardiner to help mask his flaws and let him focus on offence.

They were fine losing Bozak/JVR because they got a proven player in Tavares, Dermott looks promising but he's not going to put up 50+ points a year.

How many teams have multiple 50+ point D nevermind a single one? Also people said all offseason how Tavares wouldn't replace JVR and Bozak and Komarov and Martin etc. It was comical then just like now when people say this will sink the team.

You are correct, the right side is pretty bad. However Zaitsev has been good this year, and Dermott has been very strong and the bottom pair as a result has been good. Oz brings some grit that the team needs on the bottom RD.

I want to keep Gardiner and hope that we do keep him. However losing him is not the end of the world. It hurts to lose talent, but not the end of the world.

He also isn't such a defensive liability like you claim he is. He's a very good two way D. If he was a RD it would make the decision to sign him very easy, but it's only because of the massive amount of LD depth it is a debate.
 
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Ziggdiezan

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My point was Jake the Snake's defensive game gets overblown and if he had a more reliable defensive partner it wouldn't be a big deal, Toronto's right D is a mess and there isn't a reliable RHD on that roster that can be put with Gardiner to help mask his flaws and let him focus on offence.

They were fine losing Bozak/JVR because they got a proven player in Tavares, Dermott looks promising but he's not going to put up 50+ points a year.
If Zaitsev bounces back I think the leafs 2nd pairing will be one of the better 2nd pairings in the league. Top pairing RD on the other hand...
 
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ManofSteel55

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Aug 15, 2013
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hey guys I know someone wont like this idea but I think Dubas should be shopping gardiner or at least finding out what his value is, don't want to see him walk away for nothing just like JR or Bozak, that's not good business so I say move him for the best possible deal, wont be able to sign him anyways so it time, use the imagination mr. Dubas….
Teams who want to contend don't typically worry about losing guys like Gardiner as a free agent because they need players to help the team in the playoffs. If Dubas thinks Gardiner won't help in the playoffs, then he should absolutely be traded though.
 

Gary Nylund

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Well, seeing as i said 'led tohim being hyped' - that would imply past tense. Yes.

So that only leaves the question of why this is worth of discussion years after the fact. Every player gets hyped at some point, what's the big deal?
 

Starat327

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You're absolutely correct.

I also think a lot of the hate for him is because of the team he plays for.

100% agreed. Its unfortunate, because most people's teams on here could really benefit from a 40-50 point defenseman. They just wouldnt be able to get past the name, that's all.
 

GOilers88

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As much as it would make sense from an asset management point of view to shop him, you'd basically be giving the fanbase a huge slap in the face if you did. They're a cup contending team right now but already thin on D. Teams in that position don't trade away their 2nd best d-man coming off a 52 point season.

However, if they did, don't let the unjustified hate he gets on here fool you. Teams would line up for a guy like that at the deadline and he'd return a boatload just like Shattenkirk did.
A slap in the face of people who constantly say how much he sucks and can't play hockey? That's almost quite literally all you see about Gardiner on HF from leaf fans. I also think the Leafs need to win a single gle playoff round before you call them cup contenders.
 

jrgtml67

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Sep 12, 2011
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No way. We are weakest on D, you dont trade from area of weakness to make it worse.

At this point it'll be Nylander or Kadri and only Kadri if leafs use Nylander at center esp with Matthew's out.

I love Manson and Parakyo but I think we would need to add to a trade and add a dman because both teams need to replace them.

So say Kadri Jake for one of those 2 D and we get a pick or prospect. Problem is too Jake is UFA.

Or it'll be Nylander plus something.
 

Holymakinaw

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May 22, 2007
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There's 30 teams out there that would take him for a reasonable price.

Great. Lets make it happen.

He needs a new contract after this season, and I don't want the Leafs paying him 6+ million a year. Better to get an asset or two for him and bring up some of the good young D-Men the team has.

Or better yet......grab a strong stay-at-home guy in a trade AND bring up a good young D-man.
 
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Icebreakers

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Apr 29, 2011
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Gardiner is likely to get between $6-7 million as a UFA this coming season. He most certainly has value.

My hopes, is that he is shopped in a deal that allows for the team to improve long-term. Even if it isn't a direct deal, where the assets obtained in a trade for him, are used to improve the Right Side, in an immediate and long-term manner.

6-7 for Jake Gardiner on a long term deal is one of the biggest traps for this year's free agency. You just know that's not gonna turn out well.
 
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Tit

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Gardiner is a bit underrated. A lot of leaf fans think the grass is always greener on the other side. All D men make mistakes. I think Gardiner has gotten a lot better the last 2 seasons, despite a few glaring mistakes. He is what he is. A decent second pair LHD.

The issue is not what he's worth, or what team will sign him on July 1, the issue is our depth at LHD. And, for that matter, most teams depth at LHD.

Ideally I'd prefer to keep him, but it is inevitable that he is either traded, or he walks. Dermott is very good, and continues to get better. He may be scary good in a few years.

Personally I'd sell him before the deadline for a young forward, preferably a winger that can play in the bottom 6. Someone with upside, but a cheap contract, or on their ELC. We desperately need upgrades from Brown, Leivo, Johnsson, Linholm, Gauthier, etc. It's just an abyss of mediocrity down there.

I would love someone like Daniel Sprong from Pitt. Could be the perfect 3rd line Rw.
And he can easily move up and down the order. Could probably be the top line RW on some nights, and he's just getting better.

Because Gardiner is a rental, we'd have to add. But I think it's worth it.

Gardiner + for Sprong.
Not that Pittsburgh desperately needs another D man, but it's this type of deal I think would be ideal for the leafs.
You aren't getting an upgrade on D by trading Gardiner.
So I'd trade nylander for RHD, and Gardiner for his replacement essentially.
 

slimbob8

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Aug 11, 2016
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A slap in the face of people who constantly say how much he sucks and can't play hockey? That's almost quite literally all you see about Gardiner on HF from leaf fans. I also think the Leafs need to win a single gle playoff round before you call them cup contenders.

If you're selectively reading then yes that may be true. It's a large fanbase with a lot of differing opinions so you can find whatever you're looking for on these boards. But I'm quite confident in saying the large majority of leaf fans have the opinion that the positive aspects Gardiner brings to the game vastly outweigh the odd bonehead play. The guy is crazy underrated on here. How many 50+ point d-men are there? Even his defensive game is solid if you look at any metric other than the flawed eye test that solely focuses on the one glaring giveaway you remember from the night before.
 
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GOilers88

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Dec 24, 2016
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If you're selectively reading then yes that may be true. It's a large fanbase with a lot of differing opinions so you can find whatever you're looking for on these boards. But I'm quite confident in saying the large majority of leaf fans have the opinion that the positive aspects Gardiner brings to the game vastly outweigh the odd bonehead play. The guy is crazy underrated on here. How many 50+ point d-men are there? Even his defensive game is solid if you look at any metric other than the flawed eye test that solely focuses on the one glaring giveaway you remember from the night before.
I think he's fine as well. I see more nasty things about him than good here though, all I was getting at.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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6-7 for Jake Gardiner on a long term deal is one of the biggest traps for this year's free agency. You just know that's not gonna turn out well.

Disagree. I the Leafs announced that they signed Gardiner to a 6x6.5 deal I' be very happy. The guy's a very good player, the lack of respect he gets around here is baffling.
 

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