Value of: Gardiner Should be shopped
- Thread starter patriotfan
- Start date
He is the Leafs #2
So you are saying the Leafs won’t win anything this year or until they get another Dman better than Gardiner? I’m guessing you believe the Leafs need to trade one of their top forwards for a Dman then?
If the Leafs trade Gardiner for a 1st round pick and use that pick on a Dman, maybe in 5 years that player is a top 4 guy. There is no reason for the Leafs to trade Gardiner
Holymakinaw
Registered User
LOL. Uh, no. He's terrible defensively.
Someone out there might want him for his offence.......they're welcome to him, IMO. But I won't miss his constant brain cramps. The guy is 28 years old, and is making the same mistakes he made as a 20 year old. He'll never "get it".
We'd do well to add veteran defensive guy, in lieu of him. Or two.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
There's LOTS of reasons for them to trade him. Like, trying to win something, for example.
They have assets they can move, to improve on Gardiner. They could trade Kadri. They could trade picks. They could trade Gardiner and a prospect.
The guy is TERRIBLE defensively. Time to move on.
Dr Quincy
Registered User
- Jun 19, 2005
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To answer these 2 questions:
1) I don't know if he's saying that, but I definitely think that's the case.
2) Need? Maybe, maybe not. But most likely, yeah they do.
Okay, I get you. He's a #2 on the Leafs by necessity. He isn't a #2 by skill and wouldn't carry the same value as a real #2 quality defenseman.
Flyerfan52
Registered User
For want of better Gardiner is a top 4D in Toronto. Unless the Leafs can swing a trade of 1 of Kadri, Marner, Kapanen or Nylander for better he'll remain that.
Any UFA better that hits the market will probably start @ $6 million while Gardiner will be 2nd tier so probably closer to $5 million. If TML offer around $4.5 during the season it makes it look like he's a priority so probably turns the trick while leaving $s for the true priorities @ forward.
It looks like the Leafs have decided to live or die by offense while using a make do defense anyway & re-signing Gardiner @ least means not down grading. He is 1 of those cases where he really is worth more to his current team than to others. If traded now consider what even a rental replacement would cost in assets near the trade deadline.
There are defense prospects in the pipeline but only the very best D are ready early. If they were they'd be on the Leafs rather than Marlies. The 1s with the most upside just started their ELCs so patience is best.
Any UFA better that hits the market will probably start @ $6 million while Gardiner will be 2nd tier so probably closer to $5 million. If TML offer around $4.5 during the season it makes it look like he's a priority so probably turns the trick while leaving $s for the true priorities @ forward.
It looks like the Leafs have decided to live or die by offense while using a make do defense anyway & re-signing Gardiner @ least means not down grading. He is 1 of those cases where he really is worth more to his current team than to others. If traded now consider what even a rental replacement would cost in assets near the trade deadline.
There are defense prospects in the pipeline but only the very best D are ready early. If they were they'd be on the Leafs rather than Marlies. The 1s with the most upside just started their ELCs so patience is best.
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
A 3/4 at best? Theres probably a handful of teams in the league where he isn't a #3. So yeah, I'm calling BS on your post. And I'm not even a huge fan of Gardiner.
Right, we agree. Gardiner is a second pairing defenseman in quality, not top pairing as in the post I was replying to.
Shootertooter
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- Feb 20, 2016
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Man Bear Pig
Registered User
Well yes. With his defensive "abilities" the less you can play him the better. So, if you can give him bottom pair minutes, you're far better off. Definitely not more than 3/4 minutes. Defensively, he simply isn't good enough for more responsibility than that. Therefore, 3/4 at best.
FlyingLeafus
But what about the playoffs?
True, good to be specific as he is one of the few players that was here for both. He's not a terrible defenseman, but both he and the Leafs will be better off when they part ways.
Cotton
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- May 13, 2013
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The fact he has a cult like following of amateur analytics hobbiests who defend him at all times kinda refutes your "every single Leafs fan" notion. And it was a hell of a lot more than Leafs fans trashing his performance, from fans of any team who watched to analyst like Bob Mackenzie, to Gardiner himself. But even more than that game 7 his penchant for costly brainfarts goes back years, and have been frustrating fans for years, it's just that in previous playoff appearances he actually upped his game significantly. "Playoffs Jake" was a Leafs fan thing that for people like me was the only silver lining to him playing in Toronto.
Any player better defensively is an improvement; 2017 Ron Hainsey > Jake Gardiner. I hope he is traded and the kind of player it would take to improve our D can be found or signed or traded for rather easily, for example Ian Cole is an upgrade, Adam McQuaid is an upgrade, often injured Zach Bogosian is an upgrade (while injured), Jake can out-skate, out-pass and out-score a bunch of D, but he cant defend in his own zone.
He's a Tyson Berrie, Kevin Shattenkirk, Shayne Goesti..Ghost-Bear type player, we need a Manson, Tanev, Pesce type to improve our D, even poor-man versions will help.
Canada4Gold
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2010
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The post you quoted said "he is still the #2 Dman on a team competing for the cup." So which is it, he he not the Leafs 2nd best defenceman, or do you think the Leafs aren't good enough to compete for the cup? You misread the post. He didn't say he was a protoypical #2 or anything. Just he's the 2nd best defenceman on a top 5-8 ish team in the league. That's not wrong.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
why don't the leafs just resign him? Leaf fans have made it clear they will have no trouble keeping all their key players
Doesn't matter if you do or don't when you don't have someone to replace him. You can mistrust him all you want... but when you have no real options behind him (and Dermott isn't that guy yet - if ever), you either need to find said guy, or just suck it up and hope for the best.
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
- Jun 3, 2011
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You don't have to like it... but he's still Toronto's 2/3D. He's probably best suited as a 3/4D... but Toronto's D isn't deep enough for that yet.
Agreed. That is fine. He is a 2/3 defenseman on Toronto. I'm just saying you can't value him as an actual 2/3 defenseman as quality wise, he is a 3/4.
He scored 50 points last season, less than 20 D men did that last season. he could probably get close to 7.
In today's game Gardiner is the type of guy you want, fast, creates offense and when he makes mistakes or someone else makes them hes a guy who can recover. Brings a net positive to the team.
Also he just buried a GTG while I was typing this so all the haters can eat shit JAKE GARDINER ELITE NHL D MAN.
In today's game Gardiner is the type of guy you want, fast, creates offense and when he makes mistakes or someone else makes them hes a guy who can recover. Brings a net positive to the team.
Also he just buried a GTG while I was typing this so all the haters can eat shit JAKE GARDINER ELITE NHL D MAN.
