TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part X -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[RandV]

Tywin's war council at the end of season 1 is suggesting they approach Robb and cut a deal since they are surrounded by enemies and need to save their army to hold onto what they have, and Tyrion correctly points out that Robb won't come to the table because he's winning and he's angry about Ned being executed. The possibility was definitely there to go try and cut a deal prior to the Tyrells joining with the Lannisters. Being named, and accepting, King in the North really limited Robb's options for alliances with the Baratheons as well.

Ah right that's what you were talking about. Although at that point the conflict was a spat between the Lannister's/Tully's/Stark's, while everyone in the South was distracted with the death of King Robert leaving several contenders vying for the throne down south.

What I was more getting at is that once his bannermen declared him "King in the North" (can he even back down after they do that?) that changed everything. Trying to rule Westeros from the Iron Throne without the Targaryan's dynasty is a very precarious position, because you have a continent that used to be divided into separate Kingdoms being ruled by 8 great families and now 1 of these 8 has to hold the other 7 underneath them. This was something Robert said in season 1, 'there are 7 kingdoms to rule*, 1 king'.

The way to accomplish this is by having a centralized alliance that will step up and smack down with force anyone who tries to break away, like the Greyjoys did. If you have 2-3 houses united behind the throne then you can keep the rest of the houses in check because they are naturally divided. But the key to this is you can't just let one house break away or you risk a snowball effect.

*Riverlands/Tully's are one of the 8 great house but don't get counted in the kingdom count because they had been conquered by the Iron Islands when the Targaryan's invaded.

 

[RandV]

Yes, but add in the Starks and if Stannis could have kept the Tyrells around and it would have been a ridiculous force. Also, Renly was married to Marge at that point, not sure if the Tyrells would have ben able to join the Lannisters if not for Renly's assassination. Would have been pretty pointless too if that strong of a power was coming at KL to overthrow Joffrey.

Stannis lost the Tyrell's when he assassinated Renly. Even if they couldn't pin it on Stannis directly, it was way to convenient and coincidental that once Renly died they were gone. This was a marriage alliance, and Stannis already had a wife.

Before he was assassinated though Renly didn't need Robb. He had enough of a force to steam roll over Kings Landing and mop up whatever was left of Tywin's army. And if Robb refused to bend the knee Renly would have kept marching north.
I think Robb said something to the like that the North couldn't survive without allies, so it was still worth a shot trying to treat with Renly. But while Stannis could have used the Stark alliance that Renly didn't need, he was a hard ass for the rules and there was no negotiating with him.

 

[izzy]

blah danys story gets worse and worse

why did none of the khals step up and just snap danys head off when she starts knocking the fire over?

how did that first spread so insanely fast through there?

why did that make the dothraki so devoted to her?

i just dont understand. her plot armor and crap like that is just so out of control.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

blah danys story gets worse and worse

why did none of the khals step up and just snap danys head off when she starts knocking the fire over?

how did that first spread so insanely fast through there?

why did that make the dothraki so devoted to her?

i just dont understand. her plot armor and crap like that is just so out of control.

Since the fire is spreading over stone, we are probably supposed to believe that something flammable was put on it

Dothraki follow power above all else, her killing the Khals and surviving herself shows her power

Asking why the Khals didnt get up to kill her while their hut was burning down is dumb and quite obvious

 

[izzy]

Since the fire is spreading over stone, we are probably supposed to believe that something flammable was put on it

Dothraki follow power above all else, her killing the Khals and surviving herself shows her power

Asking why the Khals didnt get up to kill her while their hut was burning down is dumb and quite obvious

shes knocked one over, get up and kill her and she doesnt knock the rest over?

we are supposed to assume that they somehow got something flammable on that floor in advance without anyone knowing?

the dothraki have lived a certain way forever, they all of a sudden are going to completely change their ways because a random girl walked out of a burning building

its ridiculous

 

[RandV]

shes knocked one over, get up and kill her and she doesnt knock the rest over?

we are supposed to assume that they somehow got something flammable on that floor in advance without anyone knowing?

the dothraki have lived a certain way forever, they all of a sudden are going to completely change their ways because a random girl walked out of a burning building

its ridiculous

I only watched the latter seasons once but isn't that exactly what happened? My memory recollection says whether it was on screen or just implied she had some of her henchmen sneak in there ahead of time to set up oil to burn.

 

[glovesave_35]

It’s amazing how different season 1 is just by the nature of being focused on characters that don’t survive the season.

Watching in hindsight it’s almost cringe worthy watching Ned make mistake after mistake over the course of the season once you learn how the rules of the game actually work.

Even if he just told Robert the truth about his kids before he finally died it could have saved his life.

Some of those moves looked awful in the first watch. I remember losing my shit when he told Cersei everything he knows in the garden.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I only watched the latter seasons once but isn't that exactly what happened? My memory recollection says whether it was on screen or just implied she had some of her henchmen sneak in there ahead of time to set up oil to burn.

Didn't Jorah and Daario sneak in there before the Khal meeting? Might be wrong though, it's been a long time.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ned’s death isn’t just a powerful moment for the show. It’s a seminal moment in TV history.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Ned’s death isn’t just a powerful moment for the show. It’s a seminal moment in TV history.

Hm I think main characters have been killed early or mid-way thru a movie or series before. It's always a powerful mechanic. Off the top of my hat I have at least three other examples in movies...

Spoiler

Josh Brolin in No Country For Old Men
Bryan Cranston in Godzilla (2014)
Ryan Gosling in The Place Beyond The Pines

In Ned's case it's done so perfectly though. Because until the very last second you expect him to get saved somehow - like always. That they actually killed him was just unthinkable, especially since he was arguably the best known actor on the entire show (LOTR fame) and with his face all over their promo material and trailers.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Hm I think main characters have been killed early or mid-way thru a movie or series before. It's always a powerful mechanic. Off the top of my hat I have at least three other examples in movies...

Spoiler

Josh Brolin in No Country For Old Men
Bryan Cranston in Godzilla (2014)
Ryan Gosling in The Place Beyond The Pines

Listed movies not TV shows, and this was something much different.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Listed movies not TV shows, and this was something much different.

Killing of main characters has been done in TV shows before too, it just wasn't as powerful or surprising as in GoT (see my points above why that is but mainly because Ned was the main guy in GoT and not just one of more mains).

Spoiler

Jack Bauer's wife in 24
Dexter's girlfriend Rita in Dexter

 

[Neutrinos]

Big Puss gettin' whacked in The Sopranos was kind of a big deal

 

[Blender]

I only watched the latter seasons once but isn't that exactly what happened? My memory recollection says whether it was on screen or just implied she had some of her henchmen sneak in there ahead of time to set up oil to burn.

They did, and they also barred the door from the outside after she went in.

They were in Vaes Dothrak and she was being considered for the Dosh Khaleen, running over and killing her would have been an unforgivable offense against their gods. Besides that, once the fire started she could avoid them by standing behind or in the fire, which is exactly what happened.

As you pointed out, the Dothraki follow strength and she just killed every Khal. Following that she appeared before them with her massive dragon Drogon.

 

[glovesave_35]

The thing about Ned's death that was so powerful for me was that from the beginning he seemed like the main character. And yeah, you totally expect him to not get killed up there.

 

[Saskatoon]

I thought the actor playing Ramsay was too over-the-top at times

I much preferred the actor playing Joffrey

I thought the actor did a good job with what he was given in Ramsay. I didn't love Ramsay's season 6 plot. It wasn't awful but didn't feel quite right. You knew Starks would get Winterfell back for show to progress so maybe it was just the obvious conclusion to that sub plot that made it feel off to me.

He screwed up in handling Jaime (the entire negotiation, letting his mother off the hook & then killing Karstark), marrying Talisa, also sending Theon to the Iron Islands. He could have even been smart enough to make an alliance with Stannis after Renly died and make an even stronger attack on KL or at least made it more difficult for Tywin to reinforce it. Anyway, Robb's downfall doesn't really do a lot to change the course of most of the characters in the story like others.... actually I guess the main thing that comes out of it is Bolton power in the north, which eventually gets overthrown anyway which leads to Sansa being in charge of Winterfell rather than Robb I guess.

Some of the characters also exist to help with some of the themes of the show in my opinion. I think the show does some things better than the book (especially when you have to adapt to TV) but why Robb married a different women I think makes way more sense in the book. I am not sure if we are allowed to talk about it so I won't get into too much detail.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

shes knocked one over, get up and kill her and she doesnt knock the rest over?

we are supposed to assume that they somehow got something flammable on that floor in advance without anyone knowing?

the dothraki have lived a certain way forever, they all of a sudden are going to completely change their ways because a random girl walked out of a burning building

its ridiculous

The building they are in is burning to the ground and you think that they should try and kill someone who is burning with them rather than escape? I mean...what?

She clearly hatched a plan with Jorah and Daario, and mentioned, and seen, the door is barred shut and the flame is passing on stone so the logical conclusion is that there is a flammable substance on it

 

[izzy]

The building they are in is burning to the ground and you think that they should try and kill someone who is burning with them rather than escape? I mean...what?

She clearly hatched a plan with Jorah and Daario, and mentioned, and seen, the door is barred shut and the flame is passing on stone so the logical conclusion is that there is a flammable substance on it

the fire spreads towards them in the direction she knocks it over. im sure at least one of them would think to kill her before she knocks the others over or kill her because shes attacking them since that is what their entire life is about.

they fight nonstop, they dont fear death the same way most people do or they wouldnt be running around killing each other so id assume at least one of them would get up and destroy her since it would only take 1 second.

its just danys character sucks. i get other characters have plot armor but the way they always put her in danger and as soon as shes about to be killed a dragon (who nobody had seen or heard beforehand????) comes out of nowhere to kill people or pick her up. also noteworthy at one point, drogon only listens to her when its convenient to the plot. and she always jumps on and rides away from danger but leaves her closest allies standing still in danger. idk, her character just seems to be the weakest point of the entire show.

 

[Jack Straw]

Killing of main characters has been done in TV shows before too, it just wasn't as powerful or surprising as in GoT (see my points above why that is but mainly because Ned was the main guy in GoT and not just one of more mains).

Spoiler

Jack Bauer's wife in 24
Dexter's girlfriend Rita in Dexter

... almost everybody in LOST

 

[chokei]

Today on the GoT facebook page:

"6 Thrones
6 locations" ...

Right now it's only a game to hype up the final season... but could it also be a spoiler on how the show will end?

I've read summaries about Tyrion's view on how the "new world" should be organized; a more decentralized structure with more power for the people and not just the iron throne. Will there be "6 thrones in 6 locations" after it is all said and done?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I forgot how asinine the entire Dorne plotline was.

My boy Hotah got done dirty.

 

[Hivemind]

Before he was assassinated though Renly didn't need Robb. He had enough of a force to steam roll over Kings Landing and mop up whatever was left of Tywin's army. And if Robb refused to bend the knee Renly would have kept marching north.
I think Robb said something to the like that the North couldn't survive without allies, so it was still worth a shot trying to treat with Renly. But while Stannis could have used the Stark alliance that Renly didn't need, he was a hard ass for the rules and there was no negotiating with him.

Pretty sure it was the opposite. Catelyn rode to Renlys camp to negotiate an alliance. While she also tried (and failed) to make the two brothers join together, she negotiated a deal with Renly to support his claim for the throne if he allowed Rob to keep his “King in the North” title. During that discussion is when Renly gets murdered by Stannis’ shadow.

 

[Blender]

I forgot how asinine the entire Dorne plotline was.

My boy Hotah got done dirty.

They were pretty much stuck with a plot line that was never going to contribute heavily to the end game, but felt they had to include it because the books deal with Dorne. It was terrible and could have been handled much better, but I don't think it was ever going to feel satisfying and be any more than a side plot.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

They were pretty much stuck with a plot line that was never going to contribute heavily to the end game, but felt they had to include it because the books deal with Dorne. It was terrible and could have been handled much better, but I don't think it was ever going to feel satisfying and be any more than a side plot.

If they made it just so-so it probably would just be one of those plotlines people simply forget about, but they really just fumbled every aspect of it.

Also I must admit Olly comes across as a much better character watching it through again. He made the wrong choice to help conspire to kill Jon, but it made complete sense for his character.

 

[TheAngryHank]

The building they are in is burning to the ground and you think that they should try and kill someone who is burning with them rather than escape? I mean...what?

She clearly hatched a plan with Jorah and Daario, and mentioned, and seen, the door is barred shut and the flame is passing on stone so the logical conclusion is that there is a flammable substance on it

Or those are some sort of oil lamp with fluid inside.