TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part IX -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[MadDevil]

Even a mastermind can have a weakness that eventually becomes their downfall. If Littlefinger knew everything he'd be as boring as Bran.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Rewatching series lately and I gotta say

Robb deserved his fate

Preaching honor and showing himself to be man of no honor countless times including his breaking of vow to Lord Frey and the double standard he applied to Karstark vs his mother (She was not punished for freeing Jamie Lannister ,, His honor should have compelled him to behead her)

 

[glovesave_35]

Rewatching series lately and I gotta say

Robb deserved his fate

Preaching honor and showing himself to be man of no honor countless times including his breaking of vow to Lord Frey and the double standard he applied to Karstark vs his mother (She was not punished for freeing Jamie Lannister ,, His honor should have compelled him to behead her)

Yeah he did. His going for love over duty was annoying. Especially knowing the lessons he was taught by his parents.

 

[Siamese Dream]

It wasn't just Littlefinger who was being dumb in that sub plot, the whole quarrel between Arya and Sansa was really really stupid as well.

 

[glovesave_35]

It wasn't just Littlefinger who was being dumb in that sub plot, the whole quarrel between Arya and Sansa was really really stupid as well.

I also didn't like that.

 

[darko]

I'll say this much...


Re-watching Season 1 right now, and watching how Littlefinger masterfully orchestrated essentially every major event to unfold exactly the way it did... It's simply not believable in the slightest for him to be outsmarted by a pair of teenager girls the way he supposedly was at the end of season 7. It's extremely lazy and unbelievable writing if that truly was the end of littlefinger.


The way he sets up the Starks and the Lannisters against each other and essentially starts a new war out of nothing is remarkable. Flat out he would have long foreseen the events that unfolded between him and the Stark sisters and found an escape route if the show still held true to the beginning.


We'll have to see what happens but to me it would be a disappointment(And sadly an expected one at this point) for his character to have been killed so seemingly easily. Hopefully these theories prove true.

Pair of teenage girls is a bit rough. One is a trained assassin and the other spent considerable time around Littlefinger potentially studying his every move.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

He would have succeeded if not for Bran.

Now that could be considered lazy writing.

 

[Blender]

It wasn't just Littlefinger who was being dumb in that sub plot, the whole quarrel between Arya and Sansa was really really stupid as well.

Not that it was a great plot or anything because it wasn't, but most of the quarrel wasn't real. Arya was playing the game of faces with Sansa to try and elicit real responses from her and see if she would believe the lies Arya was telling her, which she didn't.

Pair of teenage girls is a bit rough. One is a trained assassin and the other spent considerable time around Littlefinger potentially studying his every move.

Also Bran who can see everything from the past if he goes looking. Funny how that was left out of the critique.

 

[peate]

Baelish was done in by his lust for Sansa, and she knew she had him by the balls.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Also in King's Landing he had spies , influence , etc

In the North he is very out of his element as seen by his inability to understand the Northerners devotion to Jon in dinner hall when they bend knee to him and admit dishonor for not coming to his aid

He has spent life manipulating Southern houses , court , etc but doesn't have much influence/reach outside of Vale in North and only reason he has that reach in Vale was murdering Sansa's aunt

 

[HanSolo]

Rewatching series lately and I gotta say

Robb deserved his fate

Preaching honor and showing himself to be man of no honor countless times including his breaking of vow to Lord Frey and the double standard he applied to Karstark vs his mother (She was not punished for freeing Jamie Lannister ,, His honor should have compelled him to behead her)

That was the whole point. He tried to play himself off like Ned 2.0 and be mature beyond his years but he was still young and impulsive.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Not that it was a great plot or anything because it wasn't, but most of the quarrel wasn't real. Arya was playing the game of faces with Sansa to try and elicit real responses from her and see if she would believe the lies Arya was telling her, which she didn't.

But we know from the deleted scene with Bran that Sansa was genuinely actually considering going through with arresting Arya until Bran told her about Littlefinger.

 

[x Tame Impala]

The show’s Littlefinger treatment is making me a little uneasy about how the series will end. He was IMO the most interesting character and the guy who understood The Game and exerted the most control over everyone, second only to Tywin. He gets relegated to nothing by essentially two high schoolers and then cheat code Bran.

I’m wary that the last season is going to abruptly end all of the storylines that actually make the show interesting and instead emphasize a CGI zombie dragon battle. Which would be a real shame since there are still a lot of interesting things to be resolved

 

[McOilers97]

The show’s Littlefinger treatment is making me a little uneasy about how the series will end. He was IMO the most interesting character and the guy who understood The Game and exerted the most control over everyone, second only to Tywin. He gets relegated to nothing by essentially two high schoolers and then cheat code Bran.

I’m wary that the last season is going to abruptly end all of the storylines that actually make the show interesting and instead emphasize a CGI zombie dragon battle. Which would be a real shame since there are still a lot of interesting things to be resolved

It felt like S7 had a lot of non-organic story and/or plot manipulation in order to get rid of certain characters and set up the pieces in a certain way for S8.

I'm concerned about the ending too. I feel like the show moving towards a "CGI zombie dragon battle" as you put it (which I agree with) is kind of...beneath what this show should be aspiring for. The political maneuvering and character dynamics in the show were always far better to me than the action-heavy stuff. I like when there is action used sparingly when the more slow-burning aspects of the story come to a boil, but these whole-episode action sequences don't do much for me.

 

[Blender]

But we know from the deleted scene with Bran that Sansa was genuinely actually considering going through with arresting Arya until Bran told her about Littlefinger.

You know that Sansa and Arya were acting during this entire plot to try and judge loyalties and bait Littlefinger, right? Arya intentionally gets spotted snooping around, as does Sansa. Arya confronts Sansa very loudly with the door open for all to hear.

I don't think they communicated the plot very well, but it was hardly characters just acting dumb.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I like when there is action used sparingly when the more slow-burning aspects of the story come to a boil, but these whole-episode action sequences don't do much for me.

I love the action sequences, LOVE them. I'm looking forward to all of that stuff too as I know it'll be super cool. But the show deserves an ending that is more than just that. It's "beneath them" like you said.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

But we know from the deleted scene with Bran that Sansa was genuinely actually considering going through with arresting Arya until Bran told her about Littlefinger.

I think the problem some people have is that it is a form of deus ex machina.

The 500BC Greeks used to throw in a God when they were plot stuck and said God then handled everything in their all-knowingness. End of story.

Bran is like the all-knowing God thrown in to end the plot. It's not quite that way because it was LFs' not knowing about this new God that led to his downfall.

Still skirts the edges though.

 

[Blender]

I think the problem some people have is that it is a form of deus ex machina.

The 500BC Greeks used to throw in a God when they were plot stuck and said God then handled everything in their all-knowingness. End of story.

Bran is like the all-knowing God thrown in to end the plot. It's not quite that way because it was LFs' not knowing about this new God that led to his downfall.

Still skirts the edges though.

It isn't just "not quite" a deus ex machina, it's not even close to one. Bran has those powers already as established in the plot, him using them to look into Littlefinger's schemes isn't a new power introduced to solve that one plot.

I see deus ex machina get misused on this board a ton. It has a specific meaning and specific criteria.

 

[x Tame Impala]

see deus ex machina get misused on this board a ton. It has a specific meaning and specific criteria

Agreed

 

[Siamese Dream]

You know that Sansa and Arya were acting during this entire plot to try and judge loyalties and bait Littlefinger, right? Arya intentionally gets spotted snooping around, as does Sansa. Arya confronts Sansa very loudly with the door open for all to hear.

I don't think they communicated the plot very well, but it was hardly characters just acting dumb.

No they weren't lol

 

[ThePhoenixx]

It isn't just "not quite" a deus ex machina, it's not even close to one. Bran has those powers already as established in the plot, him using them to look into Littlefinger's schemes isn't a new power introduced to solve that one plot.

I see deus ex machina get misused on this board a ton. It has a specific meaning and specific criteria.

C'mon.

The all knowing one/god comes down from his heavenly/disinterested perch and causes a complete 180 in the plot because they wanted to wrap up it up and get to the big stuff?

It doesn't have to be a template you know. That's as close as it gets without playing the define me game.

Remember, I am arguing for the other side. I can't wait for Shaw to gouge me when I grab HBO. I think there are glaring similarities between the definition and this act though.

 

[Blender]

No they weren't lol

Yes they were. The entire thing was a scheme to get Littlefinger to over play his hand due to overconfidence, and of course he did because he thought he was in control. Sansa would have never sent Brienne away if she was afraid of Arya, but she wasn't afraid of her at all. Arya was repeatedly lying about both her own motivations and what she thought about Sansa, and Sansa of course caught onto the lies because they were obvious to anyone who knows Arya (but wouldn't be to anyone else). Sansa was also repeatedly lying to Littlefinger and leading him on. Bran provided some additional leverage to get rid of him beyond the Lysa and Jon Arryn scheme.

Sorry you didn't get this, but it is what happened. It was poorly done because the writers were going for a fake out, which I don't think worked that well.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Rewatching series lately and I gotta say

Robb deserved his fate

Preaching honor and showing himself to be man of no honor countless times including his breaking of vow to Lord Frey and the double standard he applied to Karstark vs his mother (She was not punished for freeing Jamie Lannister ,, His honor should have compelled him to behead her)

To be fair Cat didnt kill Jamie.

But yes i hated Cat for that lol

 

[RandV]

I'll say this much...


Re-watching Season 1 right now, and watching how Littlefinger masterfully orchestrated essentially every major event to unfold exactly the way it did... It's simply not believable in the slightest for him to be outsmarted by a pair of teenager girls the way he supposedly was at the end of season 7. It's extremely lazy and unbelievable writing if that truly was the end of littlefinger.


The way he sets up the Starks and the Lannisters against each other and essentially starts a new war out of nothing is remarkable. Flat out he would have long foreseen the events that unfolded between him and the Stark sisters and found an escape route if the show still held true to the beginning.


We'll have to see what happens but to me it would be a disappointment(And sadly an expected one at this point) for his character to have been killed so seemingly easily. Hopefully these theories prove true.

Yeah it's really unfortunate that the writers Dan & David aren't nearly as good at writing themselves as they are at adapting novels, but to be fair that is a pretty tall order to ask two ordinary Hollywood writers to keep up that kind of quality. I'd say it's still really good for 'TV', just not as groundbreaking anymore.

And yeah I always thought the whole setup in Winterfell was ridiculous. After all the shit the Stark kids had been through while thinking the rest of their entire family was probably dead only to finally be re-united with everyone but Robb and Rickon, why on earth would Littlefinger think it's a good idea to try and turn them against each other?

When the shows over if all the restrictions on the thread are lifted it would be an interesting topic to rehash. For now though it is what it is.

 

[RandV]

Yes they were. The entire thing was a scheme to get Littlefinger to over play his hand due to overconfidence, and of course he did because he thought he was in control. Sansa would have never sent Brienne away if she was afraid of Arya, but she wasn't afraid of her at all. Arya was repeatedly lying about both her own motivations and what she thought about Sansa, and Sansa of course caught onto the lies because they were obvious to anyone who knows Arya (but wouldn't be to anyone else). Sansa was also repeatedly lying to Littlefinger and leading him on. Bran provided some additional leverage to get rid of him beyond the Lysa and Jon Arryn scheme.

Sorry you didn't get this, but it is what happened. It was poorly done because the writers were going for a fake out, which I don't think worked that well.

I agree, they may not have worked out the exact details without Bran but Sansa and Arya were never going to turn on each other regardless.