TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part IX -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

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TheAngryHank

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That simply isn't true unless you think the Dorthraki are riding much faster horses

And why would any Dorthraki leave the field of battle to chase down a lone rider on horseback that has a 2 minute head start?

Bronn even tells Jaime to get back to King's Landing, so he obviously thought there was enough time to escape (3:48)


Enough time to "try" to escape. You think armies let people run off freely ? No chance, they could give info about numbers weapons. Its peoples jobs to run scouts down.
 

Neutrinos

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Enough time to "try" to escape. You think armies let people run off freely ? No chance, they could give info about numbers weapons. Its peoples jobs to run scouts down.

Bronn doesn't say "try to get to King's Landing". He says "get to King's Landing" which I take as Jaime could make it to King's Landing if he fled

And again, you assume the Dothraki have faster horses. What evidence is there to support that?
 

Blender

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Running is what steppe armies want and the worst possible thing an army can do against them. Bronn cuts and runs and the Lannister forces probably panic and rout as well.
 

TheAngryHank

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Bronn doesn't say "try to get to King's Landing". He says "get to King's Landing" which I take as Jaime could make it to King's Landing if he fled

And again, you assume the Dothraki have faster horses. What evidence is there to support that?
They are horsemen , probably riding Arabians ,that can run for days. They are horsemen ,thats what they do,thats what their horses do. You honestly believe a gang of horsemen couldn't run down Jamie Lanister? The Dothracki horses don't have to be faster ,they only need to run longer. It's also a few days ride to the Red Keep. If the Dothraki have been horsemen for 1000 years they probably breed good horses. Those people were born in a saddle , could log more seat time than an average person without getting tired or sore ,the horse is their life and could track one with ease.
 

Neutrinos

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They are horsemen , probably riding Arabians ,that can run for days. They are horsemen ,thats what they do,thats what their horses do. You honestly believe a gang of horsemen couldn't run down Jamie Lanister? The Dothracki horses don't have to be faster ,they only need to run longer. It's also a few days ride to the Red Keep. If the Dothraki have been horsemen for 1000 years they probably breed good horses. Those people were born in a saddle , could log more seat time than an average person without getting tired or sore ,the horse is their life and could track one with ease.

We'll have to agree to disagree

I think it's silly to believe that the Dorthraki would even be able to spot a lone rider fleeing behind the blockade, let alone be determined enough to chase them down for what might be hours

And while I acknowledge your point that the Dothraki would be excellent riders on worthy horses, I think it's fair to assume that Jaime's horse - along with the one he provided for Bronn - would've come from strong bloodlines as well
 

Neutrinos

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Running is what steppe armies want and the worst possible thing an army can do against them. Bronn cuts and runs and the Lannister forces probably panic and rout as well.

Bronn has no rank within the army. No soldier is going to "cut and run" because he fled the battle

And the whole reason why Bronn and Jaime would flee is because they know they're about to get "swamped", so why would they care if some of the soldiers also flee for their lives? They know the battle is lost anyway
 

Blender

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Bronn has no rank within the army. No soldier is going to "cut and run" because he fled the battle

And the whole reason why Bronn and Jaime would flee is because they know they're about to get "swamped", so why would they care if some of the soldiers also flee for their lives? They know the battle is lost anyway
Bronn is a commander for Jaime. If Jaime and/or Bronn flee the field, everyone will hear that they cut and run on their army and no one will stand and fight for them again.
 

Neutrinos

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Bronn is a commander for Jaime. If Jaime and/or Bronn flee the field, everyone will hear that they cut and run on their army and no one will stand and fight for them again.

What evidence is there to support any of that?

As far as I know, Bronn is just a sellsword. That's why Jaime gave him a bag of gold, and why later Bronn said "dragons are where our partnership ends"

If Bronn were under Jaime's rank he wouldn't be able to refuse an order, otherwise he'd be executed for treason - as would any other soldier who refused to "stand and fight for them again"
 
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Blender

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What evidence is there to support any of that?
Bronn reorganizes and commands the siege of Riverrun for Jaime in season 6. He helps rally the troops at the loot train battle. He's in a command position on the battlements when Dany shows up outside King's Landing.

For the second part, the commander fleeing a battle isn't going to inspire any confidence in other troops that you are willing to stand and fight with them.
 

Neutrinos

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Bronn reorganizes and commands the siege of Riverrun for Jaime in season 6. He helps rally the troops at the loot train battle. He's in a command position on the battlements when Dany shows up outside King's Landing.

For the second part, the commander fleeing a battle isn't going to inspire any confidence in other troops that you are willing to stand and fight with them.

Okay, fair enough. But I think it's likely known among the soldiers that he is, in fact, just a sellsword. He hasn't sworn any kind of oath to fight for the Lannisters, so I think this may be a case where we're both right

But as I said earlier, if Bronn and Jaime are fleeing a fight which they can't win, do they even want their troops to remain behind and die in battle? It would make more sense for them to retreat anyway and live to fight another day

Even with that said, I think when you have a dragon and a Dothraki army bearing down on you, you're probably not focused on anything other than the dragon and Dothraki army bearing down on you. So I don't think many of the soldiers would even notice Bronn was leaving
 
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ArGarBarGar

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Honestly I don't see how the entire Lannister army doesn't retreat immediately after seeing a dragon decimate an entire section of the forward line.

Season 7 was a very messy season when it came to trying to fit all the right pieces together and provide great moments. Even that battle (which seems to be the favorite of everyone) was flawed and had major issues getting to that point in the first place.
 

Blender

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Honestly I don't see how the entire Lannister army doesn't retreat immediately after seeing a dragon decimate an entire section of the forward line.

Season 7 was a very messy season when it came to trying to fit all the right pieces together and provide great moments. Even that battle (which seems to be the favorite of everyone) was flawed and had major issues getting to that point in the first place.
They did break and try and run after the initial charge, but they were trapped by the fire, river, and the Dothraki enveloping the other flanks.
 

ArGarBarGar

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They did break and try and run after the initial charge, but they were trapped by the fire, river, and the Dothraki enveloping the other flanks.
That isn't really demonstrated. The chaos doesn't ensue until after the Dothraki break the line.
 
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Deen

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Game of Thrones is basically just Troy drawn out. I love Troy and GOW. The entire GOW could probably be done in 3 hours though (aware of the movie nerds put together.).
 

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The last two pages of this thread are giving me a good idea for a show.

Interview ex/retired Generals and higher ranked Armed Forces from various countries and ask them how they would've handled various TV and movie battles. Ask them from both sides. Could be cool to see their actual expertise be used to go further in depth with our favorite pop culture battle scenes
 

TheAngryHank

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The last two pages of this thread are giving me a good idea for a show.

Interview ex/retired Generals and higher ranked Armed Forces from various countries and ask them how they would've handled various TV and movie battles. Ask them from both sides. Could be cool to see their actual expertise be used to go further in depth with our favorite pop culture battle scenes
Instead of us knuckleheads :laugh:
 

RandV

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The last two pages of this thread are giving me a good idea for a show.

Interview ex/retired Generals and higher ranked Armed Forces from various countries and ask them how they would've handled various TV and movie battles. Ask them from both sides. Could be cool to see their actual expertise be used to go further in depth with our favorite pop culture battle scenes

So basically have them play Kriegspiel (1800's Prussian military officers were the first 'gamers') set with fictional battles from pop culture. Would be a cool idea but the problem of securing intellectual property rights could sink it.
 

JJ68

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And Olly. Because **** Olly.


Thats whats great about the show though. Olly had every reason to be angry at anyone harboring wildlings. Hell I wouldnt have hung the kid. He watched his family get butchered.
 

JJ68

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Well let me be the one to say it, on HBO's Game of Thrones Bronn in some aspects just became a bad character that they started using for convenience. I mean he's an incredibly fun character and Jerome Flynn does an amazing job playing him, but the writers took that popularity and overplayed their hand turning him into some sort of invincible badass which really doesn't fit with the initial show premise of being grounded in reality.

His primary introduction was when he championed Tyrion at the Vale , an experienced mercenary who took a chance on a golden opportunity and defeated a knight in a 1 on 1 duel. But that was done more through craftiness than an overwhelming martial prowess, he just evaded his opponent who was wearing full plate mail until he got tired. Then at some point the show writers took the popularity of the character and ran away with it, to the point that Tyrion could use him to intimidate two (was it two?) members of the Kingsguard at the same time 'Bronn if he speaks again kill him', and they shut right up. When Jamie needs to infiltrate Dorne to rescue Myrcella, Bronn alone is the only guy he needs and it's worth promising him a castle to secure his services.

Bronn's actual accomplishments don't put him anywhere near that stratosphere. He'd probably have about as much success against The Mountain as Han Solo would against Darth Vader. He worked great with Tyrion early on in the series, but they started stretching him later on into that and really went over the top when Jamie began to rely on him.


Book Bronn is just a competent fighter nothing more. A prime Jaime for example with two hands destroys him in a sword battle within a matter of seconds. The show made him camp....he played off Tyrion really well.
 

Blender

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That isn't really demonstrated. The chaos doesn't ensue until after the Dothraki break the line.
The line was broken on the initial charge though. Drogon burns a hole in it and the Dothraki charge through it (and into the rest of the line) and sweep around and flank the Lannisters.
 
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And again, you assume the Dothraki have faster horses. What evidence is there to support that?

I think it's fair to assume that a people who live on horseback and have for generations upon generations have faster horses and know how to use them better. Put a Mongol on horseback up against a medieval European knight and I'm betting on the Mongol every time. That's without even mentioning the difference in weight carried, which is significant.
 

Neutrinos

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If Bronn fled immediately, I stand by my assertion that he wouldn't be caught by a Dothraki rider, and here's why:

Firstly, Bronn would have a 2 - 3 minute head start

Secondly, the Dothraki would have to spot the lone rider fleeing at the back of the field and want to give chase

Thirdly, the Dothraki rider would have to get through the Lannister soldiers before it ever became a horse race
 

Blender

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I think it's fair to assume that a people who live on horseback and have for generations upon generations have faster horses and know how to use them better. Put a Mongol on horseback up against a medieval European knight and I'm betting on the Mongol every time. That's without even mentioning the difference in weight carried, which is significant.
While I agree with you about the horses, I don't think the Dothraki are a realistic steppe army in any other way.
 
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