TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part IX -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

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Mr Fahrenheit

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Oct 9, 2009
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Just finished rewatching season 7. The ending still bothers me. What was the point of the night's watch if the wall would have never come down without a dragon? I also can't stand that without Jon making a big deal about everything the army of the dead would just seemed to have wandered the areas north of the wall forever since no dragon would have ever come.

Maybe it'll be explained better in the last season, but it would have made so much more sense if the night king had some sort of power to knock down the wall on his own and was just amassing an army big enough to do it.

Guess season 7 is the only season you've seen
 

Whiplash27

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Guess season 7 is the only season you've seen
I've been watching the show since the beginning of season 2. What's your point? The Night's watch ended up being useless except to fight the wildlings. Their original purpose was to keep the white walkers away, but apparently without a dragon they could never get past the wall anyway. The show just continually showed them showing up and amassing a large army with no intent to finally breach the wall until the dragon conveniently showed up and gave them a way. All this shows is that without Jon making a big stink and Dany coming to save the day, the WW never breach the wall. The show should have made the NK breach the wall with his own power rather than using a conveniently placed dragon.
 

Siamese Dream

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Feb 5, 2011
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I've been watching the show since the beginning of season 2. What's your point? The Night's watch ended up being useless except to fight the wildlings. Their original purpose was to keep the white walkers away, but apparently without a dragon they could never get past the wall anyway. The show just continually showed them showing up and amassing a large army with no intent to finally breach the wall until the dragon conveniently showed up and gave them a way. All this shows is that without Jon making a big stink and Dany coming to save the day, the WW never breach the wall. The show should have made the NK breach the wall with his own power rather than using a conveniently placed dragon.

Yeah but an ice dragon is more cool and badass or something :rolleyes:

That whole plotline absolutely reeked of they wanted to get the NK an ice dragon because it would be cool, and just came up with a ridiculous nonsensical way of making it happen with their "go north of the wall and capture a zombie" plan which in itself was a ridiculous idea by the characters, and it only actually worked by complete convenience/coincidence, and what was even more dumb was that characters who should know better like Tyrion thought it would actually work to convince Cersei to join them. This made the whole dragonpit scene pointless as well, again they just wanted a cool scene to get all these characters together but it ended up being completely inconsequential because Cersei double-crossed them anyway to the shock of absolutely no-one.

To be fair though I think it's completely plausible they could have attacked the wall without the dragon, they could just send the wights to climb it or something, and the Night's Watch is so decimated they could probably have overwhelmed the defenses
 
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Mr Fahrenheit

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Oct 9, 2009
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I've been watching the show since the beginning of season 2. What's your point? The Night's watch ended up being useless except to fight the wildlings. Their original purpose was to keep the white walkers away, but apparently without a dragon they could never get past the wall anyway. The show just continually showed them showing up and amassing a large army with no intent to finally breach the wall until the dragon conveniently showed up and gave them a way. All this shows is that without Jon making a big stink and Dany coming to save the day, the WW never breach the wall. The show should have made the NK breach the wall with his own power rather than using a conveniently placed dragon.

The Nights Watch is needed to protect the North from Wildlings as evidenced by...the show. Wildlings can climb the wall, open the gates or sail around if there is no one to protect the wall. They arent there for the White Walkers as no one believes they ever existed

So basically your original comment was just plain dumb. I also think its kind of silly to slam Jon for not knowing the Night King could only take down the wall with a dragon, if thats even true, which we have no proof that it is
 
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darko

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Feb 16, 2009
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For most of the series, Cersei really shouldn't be considered "evil"

Unlikable? Sure

But most of what she's done could be considered justified on some level

She's a mass murderer.

Earlier in the series she plotted to kill her brother.
 

Emperoreddy

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Apr 13, 2010
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Yeah but an ice dragon is more cool and badass or something :rolleyes:

That whole plotline absolutely reeked of they wanted to get the NK an ice dragon because it would be cool, and just came up with a ridiculous nonsensical way of making it happen with their "go north of the wall and capture a zombie" plan which in itself was a ridiculous idea by the characters, and it only actually worked by complete convenience/coincidence, and what was even more dumb was that characters who should know better like Tyrion thought it would actually work to convince Cersei to join them. This made the whole dragonpit scene pointless as well, again they just wanted a cool scene to get all these characters together but it ended up being completely inconsequential because Cersei double-crossed them anyway to the shock of absolutely no-one.

To be fair though I think it's completely plausible they could have attacked the wall without the dragon, they could just send the wights to climb it or something, and the Night's Watch is so decimated they could probably have overwhelmed the defenses

No they can’t. The magic in the wall prevented the dead from crossing it. It is why they needed to destroy it.
 

Siamese Dream

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Feb 5, 2011
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No they can’t. The magic in the wall prevented the dead from crossing it. It is why they needed to destroy it.

Wasn't the theory that after Bran had been marked by the Night King the magic would no longer work against them, like it stopped working in the Three Eyed Crow's tree? (Oh look! Another plot point for which absolutely nothing came of it and was just forgotten about)
 

Throw More Waffles

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The Nights Watch is needed to protect the North from Wildlings as evidenced by...the show. Wildlings can climb the wall, open the gates or sail around if there is no one to protect the wall. They arent there for the White Walkers as no one believes they ever existed

is
You’re wrong.

The night watch is ancient and began to protect civilization from the white walkers. They started after the wall was made (which was most certainly not made to just protect from wildlings).

As time passed, the white walkers turned to myth and the focus became the wildlings.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

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Oct 9, 2009
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You’re wrong.

The night watch is ancient and began to protect civilization from the white walkers. They started after the wall was made (which was most certainly not made to just protect from wildlings).

As time passed, the white walkers turned to myth and the focus became the wildlings.

Me: The Nights Watch is needed to protect from wildlings

You: You're wrong they focus on protecting from wildlings

You sir, are god damn brilliant
 
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Throw More Waffles

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When you said they “aren’t there for the white walkers” I thought you were saying they never were.

My bad I suppose.
 

peate

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Season 4, episode 8, another classic one. Sansa's transformation, the great dialogue between Jaime and Tyrion and of course Oberyn's "crushing" defeat.
 

Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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Wasn't the theory that after Bran had been marked by the Night King the magic would no longer work against them, like it stopped working in the Three Eyed Crow's tree? (Oh look! Another plot point for which absolutely nothing came of it and was just forgotten about)
What plot point? The magic of the tree was disrupted, but nowhere in the plot did it say it would do anything to the wall. That was pure fan speculation. Claiming that a fan theory being incorrect is a plot point which nothing came out of is absurd.
 
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Whiplash27

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Wasn't the theory that after Bran had been marked by the Night King the magic would no longer work against them, like it stopped working in the Three Eyed Crow's tree? (Oh look! Another plot point for which absolutely nothing came of it and was just forgotten about)
What plot point? The magic of the tree was disrupted, but nowhere in the plot did it say it would do anything to the wall. That was pure fan speculation. Claiming that a fan theory being incorrect is a plot point which nothing came out of is absurd.

Even using the Bran mark theory would have been a convenient plot point. My overall problem is that there's nothing that was ever revealed in the story to say that the Army of the Dead would have ever crossed the wall without the actions of Jon (or Bran using the theory). The Night's Watch could have just ignored them while laughing from the top of the wall and they would have never been able to do anything.

It would have made more sense at least if the magic of the wall was maintained by having a Night's Watch presence at the wall. That the wall prevented them from going past. Unbeknownst to them, their initiation right gives them a sort of aura/consecration (if you will) that keeps the magic on the wall active. If the NW is defeated, then the magic would be removed. A massive Army of the Dead could have easily overrun the wall and the feeble army that defended it. It would have been the perfect complement to the fact that the Night's Watch was always asking for help from the southern rulers and received barely any. It would have also helped explain why the NK waited so long to finally come south (army building) instead of it seeming like he was just waiting for his dragon. In the last episode you could have had a battle at the wall where all of the NW that were remaining there were slaughtered (or fled), removing the magic. After that point, the dragon could have destroyed the wall for the rest of the army to pass through.
 
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