GDT: Game #9 | Detroit Red Wings @ Phoenix Coyotes | 9:00 PM EST | FS-D

[Frk It]

If Sammy goes in for Tootoo it must mean Babs really doesn't like Tatar

He's played in 1 game out of 8 so far this year... Are you just realizing that now???

 

[The Zermanator]

I'm as frustrated as anyone else here about the fact that Tatar and Nyquist aren't in the NHL and/or playing but at this point I'm starting to really believe there must be something going on behind the scenes with Tatar. Maybe he's an attitude case or he doesn't work hard enough in practice, I don't know.

We're almost ten games into the season and he's only played one game? Beyond the top 3 forwards (13, 40 and 11), we have almost no scoring. After Franzen, we don't really even have one forward scoring at more than a 0.25 ppg pace. So why isn't a scorer like Tatar in the lineup?

Before anyone jumps in with the Babcock is a DERP comments, Babcock's not an idiot. I get frustrated with his lineup decisions and line combos like the rest of us but he's still got a keen hockey mind. I have a hard time believing he'd sit a scorer for no reason when the team totally lacks secondary scoring so there must be something going on. Thoughts?


And GWG!

 

[Frk It]

I'm as frustrated as anyone else here about the fact that Tatar and Nyquist aren't in the NHL and/or playing but at this point I'm starting to really believe there must be something going on behind the scenes with Tatar. Maybe he's an attitude case or he doesn't work hard enough in practice, I don't know.

We're almost ten games into the season and he's only played one game? Beyond the top 3 forwards (13, 40 and 11), we have almost no scoring. After Franzen, we don't really even have one forward scoring at more than a 0.25 ppg pace. So why isn't a scorer like Tatar in the lineup?

Before anyone jumps in with the Babcock is a DERP comments, Babcock's not an idiot. I get frustrated with his lineup decisions and line combos like the rest of us but he's still got a keen hockey mind. I have a hard time believing he'd sit a scorer for no reason when the team totally lacks secondary scoring so there must be something going on. Thoughts?


And GWG!

It's simple. If you have natural ability, and the game comes easy to you because you actually have talent, Babcock hates you. Seems like resentment almost.

If you are a boring, vanilla hockey player without any talent, but you work hard, Babcock won't take you off the ice.

Players that were already regulars when Babs got here are exempt. Prospects that are coming up since have all had to deal with this BS

 

[Flowah]

I'm as frustrated as anyone else here about the fact that Tatar and Nyquist aren't in the NHL and/or playing but at this point I'm starting to really believe there must be something going on behind the scenes with Tatar. Maybe he's an attitude case or he doesn't work hard enough in practice, I don't know.

We're almost ten games into the season and he's only played one game? Beyond the top 3 forwards (13, 40 and 11), we have almost no scoring. After Franzen, we don't really even have one forward scoring at more than a 0.25 ppg pace. So why isn't a scorer like Tatar in the lineup?

Before anyone jumps in with the Babcock is a DERP comments, Babcock's not an idiot. I get frustrated with his lineup decisions and line combos like the rest of us but he's still got a keen hockey mind. I have a hard time believing he'd sit a scorer for no reason when the team totally lacks secondary scoring so there must be something going on. Thoughts?


And GWG!

I don't make assumptions about bad character when there's 0 evidence for it.

 

[Mount Royal]

My Score app updated - Howie to start!

 

[LeafOfBread]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 21s
Howard off the ice first, so he is starting, as expected.

Awesome, needed to know for fantasy

 

[Brandel*]

I don't make assumptions about bad character when there's 0 evidence for it.

Lol... half the posts in this entire site are based off assumptions and i see no reason a discussion can't start started/based off of an assumption and also, he did provide decent reasoning behind it, so...

 

[BF3]

This Tatar attitude ******** is getting old. He wants to play so he has an attitude problem? Better that he's seething in the pressbox then content with sitting for the likes of Sammy, Bert and Cleary. Not saying that he is, but I don't get why people are trying to figure out what's wrong with Tatar when maybe "what's wrong with Babcock and Holland" is the better question.

You can't say you love our prospects and refuse to play them at the same time, but that's the message we receive from management on a regular basis by their words and actions.

 

[Brandel*]

This Tatar attitude ******** is getting old. He wants to play so he has an attitude problem? Better that he's seething in the pressbox then content with sitting for the likes of Sammy, Bert and Cleary. Not saying that he is, but I don't get why people are trying to figure out what's wrong with Tatar when it maybe what's wrong with Babcock and Holland is the better question.

You can't say you love our prospects and refuse to play them at the same time.

not sure what you're getting at because people have been question them 100x more than tatar...

 

[Chance on Chance]

Likely because he wants someone to play the point on the 2nd PP if Kronner is out and Kindl being used on the top unit.

If Sammy was actually good at playing the point it would be one thing. We have Smith in tonight and he would take over PP duties

 

[Chance on Chance]

He's played in 1 game out of 8 so far this year... Are you just realizing that now???

I already know that but now he's taking it to the next level

 

[Flowah]

Lol... half the posts in this entire site are based off assumptions and i see no reason a discussion can't start started/based off of an assumption and also, he did provide decent reasoning behind it, so...

Really?

Can I get some examples?

He didn't provide decent reasoning at all. We're talking about a coach who overplays big grinder types like Abby and Cleary. But we automatically assume that the reason Tatar's not getting played is because of an attitude problem? What reason do we have at all to think that? Because he spent 4 years in the AHL doing everything asked of him without complaints? Because he doesn't lash out about management and coaching to the media?

It's like having a sexist boss and assuming the reason the female employee doesn't get promoted is because she has an attitude problem. Not because the boss is sexist. What sense does that make?

 

[Brandel*]

Really?

Can I get some examples?

He didn't provide decent reasoning at all. We're talking about a coach who overplays big grinder types like Abby and Cleary. But we automatically assume that the reason Tatar's not getting played is because of an attitude problem? What reason do we have at all to think that? Because he spent 4 years in the AHL doing everything asked of him without complaints? Because he doesn't lash out about management and coaching to the media?

It's like having a sexist boss and assuming the reason the female employee doesn't get promoted is because she has an attitude problem. Not because the boss is sexist. What sense does that make?

Are you asking for examples of assumptions used on this website? lol

Anyway, your post provides a perfect example of hypocrisy

We're just bringing up all of the possible reasons to why Tatar is sitting out. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes but you're assuming the reason Tatar is in the box is because of Babcock. You're the one automatically assuming it's Babcock when in reality you have very little idea. I don't see people assuming it's Tatar's attitude, rather bringing it into question as it is possible that it could be.

Also, your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[Brandel*]

Also, I'm just going to say, I highly doubt Tatar has an off ice problem at all, but I'm just defending the guy because there shouldn't be an issue with questioning the idea

 

[Frk It]

Tatar has an attitude problem? Or..... the red wings continually taken a sh** on him, and he's frustrated he was drafted by a team that's not concerned with either player development or fairness?

Expecting Tatar not to be mad, is like expecting someone who was just punched in the face to smile and say "may I have another, please?"

 

[BF3]

not sure what you're getting at because people have been question them 100x more than tatar...

I also said:

You can't say you love our prospects and refuse to play them at the same time, but that's the message we receive from management on a regular basis by their words and actions.

We have a lot of documented proof of Holland/Babcock saying they love our prospects (Smith, Nyquist, Tatar), and 3 seasons of them not playing said prospects unless they absolutely have to.

For Tatar, we have quotes translated into English and blogging body language "experts". Copy and paste for Nyquist.

Both of them made the most of their time playing the 3rd line last year during the season and the playoffs, and were a key reason why we pushed Chicago to 7 in the 2nd round as a #7 seed.

There seems to be more to complain about as it relates to the former rather than the latter.

 

[Brandel*]

Tatar has an attitude problem? Or the red wings continually taken a sh** on him, and he's frustrated he was drafted by a team that's not concerned with either player development or fairness?

Expecting Tatar not to be mad, is like expecting someone who was just punched in the face to smile and say "may I have another, please?"

I'm not sure why everyone thinks being mad is synonymous with an attitude problem. Just because he's justifiably upset doesn't mean he cannot have a problem with his attitude as well. Just saying that because his anger is justified, doesn't rule every other potential off-ice issue out.

 

[The Zermanator]

I want to chime in again. I'm not accusing Tatar of having a bad attitude per se. I'm just saying that "Babcock is an idiot" is not a good enough explanation for me and I think there must be something going on.

 

[Frk It]

I want to chime in again. I'm not accusing Tatar of having a bad attitude per se. I'm just saying that "Babcock is an idiot" is not a good enough explanation for me and I think there must be something going on.

See the post I quoted you on for an explanation why.

 

[Flowah]

Are you asking for examples of assumptions used on this website? lol

Anyway, your post provides a perfect example of hypocrisy

We're just bringing up all of the possible reasons to why Tatar is sitting out. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes but you're assuming the reason Tatar is in the box is because of Babcock. You're the one automatically assuming it's Babcock when in reality you have very little idea. I don't see people assuming it's Tatar's attitude, rather bringing it into question as it is possible that it could be.

Also, your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.

Yes. Since there are so many assumption based discussions, shouldn't be hard for you to identify a couple.

Also, you calling it an assumption that the coach of a hockey team would be in charge of deciding which hockey players are playing is hilaaaaaarious.

My analogy is spot on.

I'm just saying that "Babcock is an idiot" is not a good enough explanation for me and I think there must be something going on.

How about, Babcock is an idiot who has an obsession with size and since Tatar is small, this means he has to work 2x as hard to get half as much. It's a pretty consistent pattern with Babcock. Just look at the players he favors and the playstyle he keeps harping on. "Heavy heavy heavy." His mancrush on Abby and Cleary. This is not us pulling stuff out of thin air. This is us looking at who plays and what Babcock says.

As opposed to people speculating that there's an attitude problem with Tatar. Their "evidence" seems to be "Well Babcock isn't an idiot, so that MUST be the reason!" Also interpreted as "Babcock doesn't make mistakes. Tatar deserves to be benched."

 

[The Zermanator]

You guys are saying that Babcock doesn't give new players a chance and has an obsession with size. Doesn't explain DeKeyser (skinny) and Brunner (small) who were both rookies when playing for Babcock. Also Babcock loves Helm, who isn't big at all.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I hope Samuelsson coughs up a puck at the blueline that results in a shorthanded goal against and the 4th line gets scored on just to rub it in Babcock's face.

Samuelsson is no saving grace on the PP. So you don't improve there and instead you lose the identity and energy you had in your 4th line, and pretty much the only physical play you had in the lineup. Well done coach.

 

[Xvash2]

You guys are saying that Babcock doesn't give new players a chance and has an obsession with size. Doesn't explain DeKeyser (skinny) and Brunner (small) who were both rookies when playing for Babcock. Also Babcock loves Helm, who isn't big at all.

Exactly. You can't explain it because it makes no sense as to why Tatar and Goose aren't in the lineup.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I am, however, pleased that he's keeping Alfie with 13 and 40 to start the game. I honestly didn't think he'd do it.

 

[The Zermanator]

Yeah, just to be clear. I think both of them should be in the lineup and getting some top 6 and PP time. I just don't think Babcock and Holland deserve all the scorn they get around here. I think they've done a good job guiding this team through a transition. We haven't had to endure what Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, Toronto, etc. fans have had to endure over the years. I think the future is bright in Detroit.