GDT: GAME #8: Oilers 2 @ Canucks 0

[orcatown]

Regardless, it's undeniable that where their intentions and actions fall on that "win now" ---> "rebuild now" spectrum is completely divorced from the realities of this team. They were one of the worst teams in the league last year and are almost universally predicted to be one of the worst this year, yet they're making moves like they're still a decent bet for the playoffs and just need to tinker with a few spots on the roster and supplement with a few veterans. They're getting all the losing and misery of a tank team without the benefit of stockpiling assets for the future.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter what the plan is because they're doing a poor job realizing it no matter what. They need to draft a new core yet they go into each draft with a deficit of picks and end up trading other prospects for players that can help immediately. They're a team that is absolutely the bottom of the barrel in offense over the last 3 seasons yet their big trade acquisitions have been a 30 point 3rd line C and a 10 point #4/5 defenseman. They're an asset poor team that needs anything it can get, yet they can't get a single piece in return for their players at the deadline.

Yes and well stated. Would give the team a few more games to confirm that they are not close to contending but if this becomes evident then you must think rebuild.

Benning has apparently stated that the fans could not accept a rebuild. But this suggests that there is an alternative. Like somehow it is more acceptable that the team plod along as a bottom feeder constantly trying to patch together a team that no one could see as a contender. Does he think the fans will accept that?

I believe the fans would be much more accepting of a team that is obviously trying to rebuild than one that tries to get by using aging players and by plugging holes with PTOs. Watching a team build can be exciting and at least gives the fans some hope.

The question really seems to be. Do we want a bad team that is thinks only of winning now or do we want a bad team that is taking steps to get better?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

The amount of people in this thread who seem to legitimately want the Canucks to look like the Oilers of the past decade is absolutely sickening to me.

"Who cares about defence, giving an honest effort, or playing responsible hockey, let's just watch them **** around and try to score goals with no repercussions!"

I don't want to see them look like the Oilers. The problem is that they do look like the Oilers.

 

[Bleach Clean]

There you go oversimplifying again. So you want to sift every single building process in the entire NHL into 3 neat and tidy bins. "Rebuild", "Re-Tool", "Contending".

It really is that simple. That Lindenning's "plan" does not align with any known major concept used in hockey history is why people cannot identify with it. That's the frustration of fans here. And in turn, your frustration with the majority of them... Only, they're the ones relying on reference points and not blind faith.

Edit: Just read opendoor's post, couldn't have put it better.

 

[Nick Lang]

Great thoughts and well said, but I was speaking towards putting the Twins on different lines.

Crazy, I know. But since they are virtually the same player now, it might balance out our top 6.

I still love the Twins though! Just thinking what's best for the team.

Thoughts?

If our ability to score is this dry I say it's a great idea, and one that needed to done long ago to diversify their salaries over two lines. It's always been a problem in my mind.

 

[Ozone]

If our ability to score is this dry I say it's a great idea, and one that needed to done long ago to diversify their salaries over two lines. It's always been a problem in my mind.

There are some that forget how good these two can be on there own, when pushed..

Too complacent, too comfortable, insert your own words, might be a few ways to explain their lack of.. everything so far.

IMO, time to shake things up.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Great thoughts and well said, but I was speaking towards putting the Twins on different lines.

Crazy, I know. But since they are virtually the same player now, it might balance out our top 6.

I still love the Twins though! Just thinking what's best for the team.

Thoughts?

Oh, sorry about that. Obviously lost the thread there.

On splitting the Sedins, I don't think it's a good idea. If they've lost another step and the hands are starting to go, the last thing I think the team should do is take away their one prime remaining asset: their preternatural ESP. Honestly, it isn't like they're playing terribly either, just not up to their usual standards. I just think they need a smart, hard player with speed on their line to get the most of them at this point. Eriksson's first few steps seem quite poor and he isn't winning those board battles to get them the puck, from what I see. He too probably needs some faster players on his line to be all that he can be. Every member of that line just gets to the puck a little late.

 

[ginner classic]

No.

That we should abandon the idea of having a team that plays responsible 2-way hockey, gives a good effort, tries to win close games by sticking to their structure. That we should play "run 'n gun hockey" and lose with lots of goal-scoring and entertainment instead.

I haven't the faintest idea what makes that appealing after watching the Oilers do just that for the past decade. Nor how that would be even remotely feasible at this point in the rebuild.

It's like some people are upset that the Canucks are trying to make the most of their current situation by playing hard, and putting together a structured defensive game.

Pick an era that this team feels like from our past. Not a direct player to player comparison...but what timeframe does this team give you moments of deja vu from. Think about it....then look at the teams around us.

Do we have our next franchise defining player drafted? How about the gamebreaker? How many teams are there on the rise that do have that? Buffalo...Toronto...Edmonton...Winnipeg....Calgary....Florida...

It's a lot more 1986-1987 than it is 1997. In either case....expect a good 7+ years before a cup run....maybe much, much longer. But now it's not 21 teams....it's 31.

 

[Pip]

It's definitely still very early but Eriksson looks nothing like a 30 goal scorer out there.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

It's definitely still very early but Eriksson looks nothing like a 30 goal scorer out there.

Good news is that he's only signed till 2023

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Pick an era that this team feels like from our past. Not a direct player to player comparison...but what timeframe does this team give you moments of deja vu from. Think about it....then look at the teams around us.

Do we have our next franchise defining player drafted? How about the gamebreaker? How many teams are there on the rise that do have that? Buffalo...Toronto...Edmonton...Winnipeg....Calgary....Florida...

It's a lot more 1986-1987 than it is 1997. In either case....expect a good 7+ years before a cup run....maybe much, much longer. But now it's not 21 teams....it's 31.

This is pretty bang on. The problem is, 90% of people on here ONLY follow the Canucks. They see Horvat and think we are the only team that has a young budding star. Every team has their Horvat. Every team has a Virtanen type of player etc. We aren't really ahead of the curve. Demko and Boeser will help but neither are generational. Maybe 5-8 years till playoffs .....as for cup runs ....seems they come around ever 20 years so maybe another 15 years or so which means only Hutton / Virtanen / Horvat / Boeser / Demko will still be playing and maybe not even. Tanev is already 27, etc.

 

[Ozone]

Oh, sorry about that. Obviously lost the thread there.

On splitting the Sedins, I don't think it's a good idea. If they've lost another step and the hands are starting to go, the last thing I think the team should do is take away their one prime remaining asset: their preternatural ESP. Honestly, it isn't like they're playing terribly either, just not up to their usual standards. I just think they need a smart, hard player with speed on their line to get the most of them at this point. Eriksson's first few steps seem quite poor and he isn't winning those board battles to get them the puck, from what I see. He too probably needs some faster players on his line to be all that he can be. Every member of that line just gets to the puck a little late.

No problem!

Yet, to me, 'taking away their one prime remaining asset' is the biggest problem now.
Unless on the PP, they are not assets together right now - and that mindset is the biggest problem for our top six. People forget how good they can be on their own.

Maybe not for long, but they need a shake up.

They are not just special, because they play together.. we have seen different.

 

[mathonwy]

 

[Zombotron]

Doing the Stecher iso video now

 

[The Drop]

Solid fight between RealGud and Kass.

I'd give the W to RealGud.

Baertschi's miss... wow.

top line didnt look good. I think it's hansen time.

Benning's acquisitions of non skill players or players who havent lived up to their potential is showing on the scoreboard.

Sutter - 3rd line C pigeon holed into a top 6 role.

Granlund - fringe NHLer/Reg AHLer put into significant minutes in the NHL.

Baerstchi - You guys know my feelings

Sbisa - LOL

Biega - would clear waivers

Larsen - Not a NHLer on a good team

Derek Dorsett - Trash can with skates

Majority of these guys play significant minutes and it's no wonder they can't score.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

It's definitely still very early but Eriksson looks nothing like a 30 goal scorer out there.

It is very early but it wasn't hard to see the Eriksson deal would be a disaster he was good last year but the previous 2 years in Boston he was quite mediocre along with his final year in Dallas.

 

[MS]

After all the hype about a 4 game winning streak, it's immediately followed up with a 4 game losing streak. This is possibly the most boring, unentertaining NHL team ever assembled and might struggle to score 150 goals this year.

Positives:

- everyone tried real hard

Negatives:

- everyone sucks

Really negatives:

- once everyone who is trying real hard realizes they suck, they're going to lose their edge and this team will plummet to the bottom of the league

Not much else to add. Baertschi looked better. Sedins old. Eriksson the Ghost of Awful Future. Gudbranson good and a moral victory. Hutton less good. Virtanen still should be in AHL. More depth forwards hurt. Yay.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't necessarily agree with you, but I hear what you're saying. The question I think we're coming to is (and it's still too early to say for sure), is the Sedins-as-first-liners thing finally over? And if it is, is there anyone else on the team at present who could perform better than them offensively if given the opportunities they regularly enjoy (top PP time, etc.)?

Put another way, if Hansen is something of a line-fixer, your best line-boosting player, is it worth using him to boost the Sedins, or is it better to use him to boost another line and just stop prioritizing the Sedins, even from a win-now perspective? Is this still their team?

I personally think that, despite the bad start, the Sedins are still the team's best offensive forwards. I also think that's really sad.

Should be a fun year!

It's not necessarily a zero sum game though, if you're talking about moving Hansen onto the Sedin line...as it also means moving Eriksson away from them.

In theory at least, Eriksson if he can get going here, should be able to help another line as well. Be that Horvat's unit in place of Virtanen...or maybe even Sutter's line.

So in that sense, the swap could actually "boost" two lines.


Really puts to the test the hype we were sold on Eriksson being a guy with versatility who can help other lines, not just ride shotgun with the Sedins. And at $6M, he really better be able to help another line. It's not really helping the Sedin line right now.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Just watched the replay of Kassian Vs. Gudbranson. Pretty awesome. Gudbranson is definitely growing on me. Also nice to see Kassian carving out a nice role for himself in Edmonton.

Imagine the stupid idea of having multiple power forwards on a team.

 

[biturbo19]

It really is that simple. That Lindenning's "plan" does not align with any known major concept used in hockey history is why people cannot identify with it. That's the frustration of fans here. And in turn, your frustration with the majority of them... Only, they're the ones relying on reference points and not blind faith.

Edit: Just read opendoor's post, couldn't have put it better.

I just don't think you can boil all of hockey history down to 3 black and white "approaches" like that. This, like many others is a unique situation.

It's where there's all this frustration about how wrong they're doing it...But i'm still waiting to hear what the realistic right and apparently vastly different approach is?

Is it somehow trading the Sedins, Edler, Tanev?

Is it keeping the Sedins and saying, "sorry bros, we're going to purposely surround you with the crappiest possible team we can and make no attempt to give you any proven support so you can play out your last few years in the gutter"? Is that the ideal blueprint? Take a huge intentional dump on the final years of arguably the two best players this franchise has ever had?


The pieces this team is most sorely lacking for the future are the type of franchise pieces that you don't just pick up on the deadline market by dishing off a few mediocre vets or in the minutia of "asset managing" your fringe players and prospects and late round picks. They're the pieces you draft, and outside of extreme outliers...you draft them with 1st round picks, typically very high ones. Where is that coming from, if not from our own picks...over time?

I get why people are frustrated with the reality of this team's situation and the time it's going to take to really "rebuild" it. I think it's extremely impatient and comes off as entitled whining. But i get it where it's coming from. I just don't like it or agree with it.

I get why people are unhappy with bleeding some value here and there in peripheral trades. But these deals aren't the reason we don't have potential 1st line forwards jumping right in to replace the Sedins. None of the pieces Benning has "piddled away" are even remotely in the ballpark of the value of the future 1st line superstars that we need. All of every single piece Benning has "spent" combined doesn't come close to what it takes to realistically bring in the future "franchise center" we need.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

The trend I was worried about continues:

 

[geebaan]

I just don't think you can boil all of hockey history down to 3 black and white "approaches" like that. This, like many others is a unique situation.

It's where there's all this frustration about how wrong they're doing it...But i'm still waiting to hear what the realistic right and apparently vastly different approach is?

Is it somehow trading the Sedins, Edler, Tanev?

Is it keeping the Sedins and saying, "sorry bros, we're going to purposely surround you with the crappiest possible team we can and make no attempt to give you any proven support so you can play out your last few years in the gutter"? Is that the ideal blueprint? Take a huge intentional dump on the final years of arguably the two best players this franchise has ever had?


The pieces this team is most sorely lacking for the future are the type of franchise pieces that you don't just pick up on the deadline market by dishing off a few mediocre vets or in the minutia of "asset managing" your fringe players and prospects and late round picks. They're the pieces you draft, and outside of extreme outliers...you draft them with 1st round picks, typically very high ones. Where is that coming from, if not from our own picks...over time?

I get why people are frustrated with the reality of this team's situation and the time it's going to take to really "rebuild" it. I think it's extremely impatient and comes off as entitled whining. But i get it where it's coming from. I just don't like it or agree with it.

I get why people are unhappy with bleeding some value here and there in peripheral trades. But these deals aren't the reason we don't have potential 1st line forwards jumping right in to replace the Sedins. None of the pieces Benning has "piddled away" are even remotely in the ballpark of the value of the future 1st line superstars that we need. All of every single piece Benning has "spent" combined doesn't come close to what it takes to realistically bring in the future "franchise center" we need.

You don't think a player like Nylander over Virtanen would help that? Forsling over Clendenning? Kassian over Prust? Time and time again these guys have made important decisions wrong. Decisions that, if made correctly, could really have put us in a much better position. These are just a few examples.

 

[PG Canuck]

Great thoughts and well said, but I was speaking towards putting the Twins on different lines.

Crazy, I know. But since they are virtually the same player now, it might balance out our top 6.

I still love the Twins though! Just thinking what's best for the team.

Thoughts?

I've wanted to try it back when we still had Kesler. Really, it doesn't hurt to try, and I know the idea of them not playing together may not bode well for them, but they realistically have formed into the exact same players - playmakers. Daniel is not as big of a threat to score anymore, and Henrik never was.

Or just go back to Hansen with the Sedins. They meshed so well together.

Daniel - Henrik - Hansen
Baertschi - Horvat - Eriksson
Granlund - Sutter - Virtanen
Megna - Gaunce - Skille

Plug Dorsett where Skille plays when healthy. Fourth line is pretty weak, but I like all the options for the top nine.

Baertschi - Henrik - Eriksson
Daniel - Horvat - Virtanen
Granlund - Sutter - Hansen
Megna - Gaunce - Skille

I'd like to even try this for like five games or so. Give Horvat some actual skill on his line, and give Virtanen an opportunity to get his offensive game going, or at least see if he is worth keeping up any longer.

 

[Yggdrasil]

i know it might be early but sweet christ, mcdavid is truly generational talent.

he skates soooooooo well, so skilled!

god damn u oilers winning lottery, i cannot ****ing believe that!

 

[me2]

I just don't think you can boil all of hockey history down to 3 black and white "approaches" like that. This, like many others is a unique situation.

It's where there's all this frustration about how wrong they're doing it...But i'm still waiting to hear what the realistic right and apparently vastly different approach is?

Is it somehow trading the Sedins, Edler, Tanev?

Is it keeping the Sedins and saying, "sorry bros, we're going to purposely surround you with the crappiest possible team we can and make no attempt to give you any proven support so you can play out your last few years in the gutter"? Is that the ideal blueprint? Take a huge intentional dump on the final years of arguably the two best players this franchise has ever had?


The pieces this team is most sorely lacking for the future are the type of franchise pieces that you don't just pick up on the deadline market by dishing off a few mediocre vets or in the minutia of "asset managing" your fringe players and prospects and late round picks. They're the pieces you draft, and outside of extreme outliers...you draft them with 1st round picks, typically very high ones. Where is that coming from, if not from our own picks...over time?

I get why people are frustrated with the reality of this team's situation and the time it's going to take to really "rebuild" it. I think it's extremely impatient and comes off as entitled whining. But i get it where it's coming from. I just don't like it or agree with it.

I get why people are unhappy with bleeding some value here and there in peripheral trades. But these deals aren't the reason we don't have potential 1st line forwards jumping right in to replace the Sedins. None of the pieces Benning has "piddled away" are even remotely in the ballpark of the value of the future 1st line superstars that we need. All of every single piece Benning has "spent" combined doesn't come close to what it takes to realistically bring in the future "franchise center" we need.

He's pissed away chances to add quality prospects using his assets to chase veteran 3Cs and 4Ds, fubaring deadlines, mismanaging players, refusing to see the obvious etc. Chase a mid 1st, not when he could get bonino, oops, flips bonino for a 1st+, nope Sutter. 2015 was a great draft and didn't even get a 2nd 1st rounder let alone get a lottery ticket for McDavid, somehow they only got one pick in the first round two rounds. 2016, 2 picks before 140.

We keep getting told we are 5-8 years away. Sutter and gudbranson won't even be under contract and will need to be re-signed, assuming they can. By then Sutter's going to be early to mid-30, what foundation is that for? An old age home? Gudbranson will be the approaching to same age as too old guys like garrison, Bieksa and Hamhuis. The reason for wanting these guys is to compete now and delay the rebuild until later. You don't building around 3Cs and #4Ds, you add then to rebuilt teams or contenders.

Now we have people talking about trading Tanev because he is too old for the rebuild. A 24yo is going to be too old by the time the rebuild is completed? That's a baldly botched job.

 

[Bougieman]

We will finish last overall when Nolan Patrick is nowhere near McDavid/Matthews


Our luck.

I keep having to say this: It doesn't matter if we finish dead last, we're not getting first over all. I'd bet the rent on it. Last place has a 30% chance of getting first, and the Canucks don't have the kind of luck needed to work with those odds, you said it yourself.