GDT: Game 70: Detroit Red Wings @ Montreal Canadiens | 3/12/2019 | 7:30PM ET | FSD

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Datsyuk doesn't get extended if we come out of the lockout needing to take Fedorov, Yzerman and Lidstrom forward. Our cap would have been a nightmare we would have needed to part with more guys. Zetterberg would have been the young guy priority and Datsyuk who at that point was a nightmare in the playoffs would have been turfed. Heck they almost traded him for Scott Gomez anyway. This is what I mean by I am not sure you have really looked at all the sliding pieces around Fedorov leaving and actually what him staying ultimately would have meant anyway.

There was more bleeding of talent to be done if we hold onto Fedorov and he agrees to the deals. Also part of why I have found the Ilitch families position on this and Devellano's position on it pretty perplexing. Fedorov's career never was quite as good and they used the flexibility to be the best team in the league under the new cap system to start. Hard to see that really working out great for us. But the reality is him staying has a dramatic impact on who is around after the lockout as he is locked in and we are keeping him.

I'm with you on a lot of the stuff about Ilitch's role in Fedorov's departure, but claiming Datsyuk doesn't get extended if the Wings kept Fedorov is pure fiction.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm with you on a lot of the stuff about Ilitch's role in Fedorov's departure, but claiming Datsyuk doesn't get extended if the Wings kept Fedorov is pure fiction.

The money doesn't work.... Now I wonder if the league comes in with a higher cap or the Wings are actually given a period to come down under it if his contract is on the books. We struggled mightily to get to that number even without Fedorov on the books.

Simply put I have heard that from people I know and I trust that the reality is when this was first being discussed it was basically a death sentence for Pavel's time in Detroit if Fedorov is locked up long-term. Zetterberg was the priority of the two young guys back during this time period.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The money doesn't work.... Now I wonder if the league comes in with a higher cap or the Wings are actually given a period to come down under it if his contract is on the books. We struggled mightily to get to that number even without Fedorov on the books.

Simply put I have heard that from people I know and I trust that the reality is when this was first being discussed it was basically a death sentence for Pavel's time in Detroit if Fedorov is locked up long-term. Zetterberg was the priority of the two young guys back during this time period.

Slippery slope fallacy.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Are you implying that a salary cap that wasn't even in place for years factored into the decision to lose Fedorov and they thought if there was one at a later date they would then lose Datsyuk? Sorry but that is nonsense man.

Wasn't in place for years? Fedorov signed in Anaheim in June 2003. The season before the lost lockout year. There is no way that the owners/players weren't looking at the tea leaves and thinking something HUGE was coming. Kind of like how the guys in 2011 and 2012 started lockout prepping by getting in their backdiving deals and now with guys lockout proofing their deals by going to bonus money the year when it could happen.

Maybe they weren't certain a cap would come out of the lockout, but for it to get as dug in as it was so quickly? They had to know something.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The money doesn't work.... Now I wonder if the league comes in with a higher cap or the Wings are actually given a period to come down under it if his contract is on the books. We struggled mightily to get to that number even without Fedorov on the books.

Simply put I have heard that from people I know and I trust that the reality is when this was first being discussed it was basically a death sentence for Pavel's time in Detroit if Fedorov is locked up long-term. Zetterberg was the priority of the two young guys back during this time period.

Yes I'm sure the Wings would've parted ways with Datsyuk versus someone like say Robert Lang.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Slippery slope fallacy.

You blame Holland for Fedorov's departure and you want to talk about slippery slope fallacy... M'kay...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Wasn't in place for years? Fedorov signed in Anaheim in June 2003. The season before the lost lockout year. There is no way that the owners/players weren't looking at the tea leaves and thinking something HUGE was coming. Kind of like how the guys in 2011 and 2012 started lockout prepping by getting in their backdiving deals and now with guys lockout proofing their deals by going to bonus money the year when it could happen.

Maybe they weren't certain a cap would come out of the lockout, but for it to get as dug in as it was so quickly? They had to know something.

Fedorov left then there was 2 years then the cap. 2003-04 , lock out, then the cap. More than one is two. Years is plural for more than one. Are you going to "debate" that too?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yes I'm sure the Wings would've parted ways with Datsyuk versus someone like say Robert Lang.

The Wings had trouble getting him back from Russia, they aren't in as much of a bind with Fedorov still under contract. They aren't as worried about down the middle. You have Fedorov and Zetterberg as foundation pieces down the middle.

Hey it is just what I have heard from people that should know. We think of Datsyuk a lot differently now than we did exiting that lockout is also a part of this. He would explode under the new rules, that wasn't the logic when they were trimming the roster and adding Fedorov in would impact some of who stayed that is just a reality.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

You blame Holland for Fedorov's departure and you want to talk about slippery slope fallacy... M'kay...

And I blame him for not having his Jersey retired.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yes I'm sure the Wings would've parted ways with Datsyuk versus someone like say Robert Lang.

Holland's apologists will always paint it so he is absolved from any blame. Get with the program yo.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The Wings had trouble getting him back from Russia, they aren't in as much of a bind with Fedorov still under contract. They aren't as worried about down the middle. You have Fedorov and Zetterberg as foundation pieces down the middle.

Hey it is just what I have heard from people that should know. We think of Datsyuk a lot differently now than we did exiting that lockout is also a part of this. He would explode under the new rules, that wasn't the logic when they were trimming the roster and adding Fedorov in would impact some of who stayed that is just a reality.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[Ezekial]

Ties crushes people like Redder used to crush people, just keep going until they think it's not worth it anymore.
EDIT: Damn, apparently I posted the above in the wrong thread.

Holland talking about retiring 91:
Holland: Wings Need To Discuss Retiring Fedorov’s Jersey

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Ties crushes people like Redder used to crush people, just keep going until they think it's not worth it anymore.


Holland talking about retiring 91:
Holland: Wings Need To Discuss Retiring Fedorov’s Jersey

Did he do it? He also talks about "rebuilding on the fly" How is that working? And I don't need to "crush" anyone. I ain't seeking none of you guys approval. I speak my mind if you don't like it, don't read it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

And I blame him for not having his Jersey retired.

He is the only guy of power on record endorsing it so if that is what you want to claim it is a fairly awful point and makes the explanation of your avatar non-sense. Have at it man, I have to live by the site rules just like everyone else so I am done with this discussion, keep living in your bubble.

Robert Lang was a superior contributor at the point this decision was being made guys/gals, though he is unlikely to have been in Detroit at all if Fedorov is extended so no we are back to which younger guys money can't happen between Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I can tell you who the franchise was taking in that debate back then.

They seriously considered moving Datsyuk in the summer of 06 after the dismal playoff run. To pretend he was near a protected asset back at this point is revisionist history.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He is the only guy of power on record endorsing it so if that is what you want to claim it is a fairly awful point and makes the explanation of your avatar non-sense. Have at it man, I have to live by the site rules just like everyone else so I am done with this discussion, keep living in your bubble.

Robert Lang was a superior contributor at the point this decision was being made guys/gals, though he is unlikely to have been in Detroit at all if Fedorov is extended so no we are back to which younger guys money can't happen between Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I can tell you who the franchise was taking in that debate back then.

They seriously considered moving Datsyuk in the summer of 06 after the dismal playoff run. To pretend he was near a protected asset back at this point is revisionist history.

The mafia on record says people are great guys then orders hits on them. What's your point. It's all lip service. Was his Jersey retired? Datsyuk and Fedorov deals aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Ties crushes people like Redder used to crush people, just keep going until they think it's not worth it anymore.


Holland talking about retiring 91:
Holland: Wings Need To Discuss Retiring Fedorov’s Jersey

I want to say he said he outright favored it at one point in an interview.

Devellano came out with the over my dead body not long ago on this subject as well.

 

[Ezekial]

Did he do it? He also talks about "rebuilding on the fly" How is that working? And I don't need to "crush" anyone. I ain't seeking none of you guys approval. I speak my mind if you don't like it, don't read it.

Ken Holland doesn't control what jerseys get retired. Ownership does.

I know you weren't saying anything about crushing, I was making an independent comment in regards to someone else's independent comment.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Ken Holland doesn't control what jerseys get retired. Ownership does.

Ownership decides what contracts get paid too, so he has no fault in that either right? What does he control?

 

[Ezekial]

I want to say he said he outright favored it at one point in an interview.

Devellano came out with the over my dead body not long ago on this subject as well.

That was just the more recent discussion that I remembered, he could've made stronger comments previously.

Ownership decides what contracts get paid too, so he has no fault in that either right? What does he control?

Aaaaaaand not worth it anymore.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

That was just the more recent discussion that I remembered, he could've made stronger comments previously.


Aaaaaaand not worth it anymore.

Then stop quoting me if it's not worth it? Do you just want my attention? MOD

 

[Ezekial]

Then stop quoting me if it's not worth it? Do you just want my attention? MOD

Ownership decides what contracts get paid too, so he has no fault in that either right? What does he control?

MOD

Ownership owns the crest on the jersey. They determine who can't wear that number for THEIR team anymore. Ken Holland does need their signature for the contracts they sign. But Marian and Chris don't negotiate with agents. He has a lot of responsibilities. More than you could ever imagine. He has a lot of control of the roster and team, but that said, HE DOESN'T MAKE LEGACY DECISIONS FOR THE ORGANIZATION. He is in the room when they discuss them - BUT HE DOES NOT MAKE THE CALL.

So any other strawmans or flaccid arguments you'd like to present?

 

[Hen Kolland]

MOD

Ownership owns the crest on the jersey. They determine who can't wear that number for THEIR team anymore. Ken Holland does need their signature for the contracts they sign. But Marian and Chris don't negotiate with agents. He has a lot of responsibilities. More than you could ever imagine. He has a lot of control of the roster and team, but that said, HE DOESN'T MAKE LEGACY DECISIONS FOR THE ORGANIZATION. He is in the room when they discuss them - BUT HE DOES NOT MAKE THE CALL.

So any other strawmans or flaccid arguments you'd like to present?

I now know what it’s like when people say “you must be responding to someone I have blocked”

 

[odin1981]

How does Blashil not put his best offensive player in Athanasiou and his rookie with a great one timer on the ice with the empty net? Great idea to play Kronwall and Nielsen above them!

What is the team doing right now?

The answer is finishing as low as they can to maximize there chances of a blue Chip prospect.