Game 7 heroics

[mbhhofr]

Not a player, but HOF Referee John Ashley, from 1964 to 1972, was assigned to every game seven of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Quarter finals, semi finals and finals.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Well its pretty much considered common knowledge in Vancouver that the ego from hell, a.k.a. Mark Messier was likely behind Linden being traded. Messier`s ego could not handle another team leader stealing his limelight and he quickly divided the dressing room when he arrived in 1997–98. This is in spite of Linden giving up the team captaincy to Messier when he joined the team.

My guess as far as Gelinas is concerned is that he was possibly a Linden supporter which would explain his trade.

A lot of this explains why Messier is so hated by Vancouver fans and why we consider those three years of the Keenan, Messier era some of the darkest days of the Canucks history.

Maybe their play prior to being traded had something to do with it?

Trevor Linden
42GP 7G 14A 21Pts -13

Martin Gelinas
24GP 4G 4A 8Pts -6

Btw, Linden was traded for Todd Bertuzzi, Brian McCabe, and a 3rd round pick used to select Jarko Ruutu. Moving Linden was a huge step in stopping the team's decline which had been happening since their trip to the finals in 94.

 

[seventieslord]

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that Patrick Roy was a virtual guarantee to win at least 3 games in a series. If you were gonna beat him, you were gonna beat him in 7.

 

[Kirikanoir]

Maybe their play prior to being traded had something to do with it?

Trevor Linden
42GP 7G 14A 21Pts -13

Martin Gelinas
24GP 4G 4A 8Pts -6

Btw, Linden was traded for Todd Bertuzzi, Brian McCabe, and a 3rd round pick used to select Jarko Ruutu. Moving Linden was a huge step in stopping the team's decline which had been happening since their trip to the finals in 94.

Well if i remember correctly in Trevor Linden`s case he missed quite a few games to injury that season. Besides that how often does a team trade its No 1 draft pick, heart and soul team leader who consistently put up points year after year because of one bad season.


Mark Messier
1996-97 New York Rangers 71GP 36G 48A 84P +12

Mark Messier
1997-98 Vancouver Canucks 82GP 22G 38A 60P -10

1998-99 Vancouver Canucks 59GP 13G 35A 48P -12

1999-00 Vancouver Canucks 66GP 17G 37A 54P -15

And this is the numbers we paid Messier 20 million over 3 years for.

Yes we picked up some good players in the Linden trade. Still does not in anyway justify the way he was treated by Messier and Keenan in their time here. Given that Vancouver missed the playoffs for 3 years after the Linden trade and only returned to the playoffs after both Keenan and Messier were gone, I would suggest that finally seeing the end of Messier and Keenan was a even bigger step to turning the fortunes of the Canucks around.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Well if i remember correctly in Trevor Linden`s case he missed quite a few games to injury that season. Besides that how often does a team trade its No 1 draft pick, heart and soul team leader who consistently put up points year after year because of one bad season.


Mark Messier
1996-97 New York Rangers 71GP 36G 48A 84P +12

Mark Messier
1997-98 Vancouver Canucks 82GP 22G 38A 60P -10

1998-99 Vancouver Canucks 59GP 13G 35A 48P -12

1999-00 Vancouver Canucks 66GP 17G 37A 54P -15

And this is the numbers we paid Messier 20 million over 3 years for.

Yes we picked up some good players in the Linden trade. Still does not in anyway justify the way he was treated by Messier and Keenan in their time here. Given that Vancouver missed the playoffs for 3 years after the Linden trade and only returned to the playoffs after both Keenan and Messier were gone, I would suggest that finally seeing the end of Messier and Keenan was a even bigger step to turning the fortunes of the Canucks around.

Vancouver Canucks Winning % through the Years
1993/94 - .506 - Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
1994/95 - .500 - Lost in Conference Semi-Finals
1995/96 - .482 - Lost in Conference Quarter-Finals
1996/97 - .470 - Missed the Playoffs
Mark Messier Signs with Vancouver
1997/98 - .390 - Missed the Playoffs
1998/99 - .354 - Missed the Playoffs
1999/00 - .506 - Missed the Playoffs
Mark Messier Signs with New York
2000/01 - .549 - Lost in Conference Quarter-Finals
2001/02 - .573 - Lost in Conference Quarter-Finals
2002/03 - .634 - Lost in Conference Semi-Finals

You seem to be suggesting the Messier was the cause of the Canucks decline and him leaving was the reason for their rise. These stats show that the decline was happening before he arrived and the biggest improvement occurred prior to him leaving.

It's funny how Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi and Ed Jovanovski speak highly of Messier and players like Trevor Linden and Gino Odjick don't. One group was the future looking to be lead and the other was the past trying to hang onto their spot.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

As a Sens fan, I prefer to not think about game sevens...

 

[cynicism]

As a Sens fan, I prefer to not think about game sevens...

I was going to mention the Great One, I don't know what his Game 7 stats are, but in 93 he played the self described game of his life against the Leafs and drove me to tears

 

[Kirikanoir]

You seem to be suggesting the Messier was the cause of the Canucks decline and him leaving was the reason for their rise. These stats show that the decline was happening before he arrived and the biggest improvement occurred prior to him leaving.

It's funny how Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi and Ed Jovanovski speak highly of Messier and players like Trevor Linden and Gino Odjick don't. One group was the future looking to be lead and the other was the past trying to hang onto their spot.

Where did I say anything about Messier causing the decline of the Canucks? All I pointed out was Vancouver started making the playoffs again after the Keenan, Messier experiment ended. Coincidence?

Bottom line sports is a results oriented business, and both Keenan and Messier get a fail for the results they achieved in their 3 tears in Vancouver. They were brought in to help stabilize the team and provide additional leadership. Instead we got the team blown up, overpaid floater Messier, and dictator Keenan.

Not that I was surprised, I predicted it would be a disaster as soon as I heard the club was hiring Keenan, and sadly I was proven right. There is a reason the guy has never lasted more than 4 years with any one team, and his years in Vancouver were yet another example of it.

And by the way if Trevor Linden was such a washed up has been trying to hold on to his spot how come the club wasted no time in resigning him within 2 years of Messier and Keenan debacle?

And as for after the Messier, Keenan, years.

Mark Messier NY Rangers 4 years 0 playoff appearances

Trevor Linden Vancouver 6 years 4 playoff appearances
Helped provide veteran leadership to a young club. You know the role Messier was supposed to be coming here to provide.

And for that matter Martin Gelinas after being traded from Vancouver, played another 10 seasons with four different teams, 5 playoff appearances 2 Stanley Cup finals.

So who was the washed up player trying to hold on to his spot again?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Where did I say anything about Messier causing the decline of the Canucks? All I pointed out was Vancouver started making the playoffs again after the Keenan, Messier experiment ended. Coincidence?

Bottom line sports is a results oriented business, and both Keenan and Messier get a fail for the results they achieved in their 3 tears in Vancouver. They were brought in to help stabilize the team and provide additional leadership. Instead we got the team blown up, overpaid floater Messier, and dictator Keenan.

Not that I was surprised, I predicted it would be a disaster as soon as I heard the club was hiring Keenan, and sadly I was proven right. There is a reason the guy has never lasted more than 4 years with any one team, and his years in Vancouver were yet another example of it.

And by the way if Trevor Linden was such a washed up has been trying to hold on to his spot how come the club wasted no time in resigning him within 2 years of Messier and Keenan debacle?

And as for after the Messier, Keenan, years.

Mark Messier NY Rangers 4 years 0 playoff appearances

Trevor Linden Vancouver 6 years 4 playoff appearances
Helped provide veteran leadership to a young club. You know the role Messier was supposed to be coming here to provide.

And for that matter Martin Gelinas after being traded from Vancouver, played another 10 seasons with four different teams, 5 playoff appearances 2 Stanley Cup finals.

So who was the washed up player trying to hold on to his spot again?

Well, for what it's worth, Linden was basically a depth player after his first Canucks stint. And the club didn't re-sign him, they traded back for him from the Capitals. If not for the Canucks wanting him back, who knows how much longer Linden would have even been in the league. He was coming off three years of lousy play with the Islanders, Habs, and Capitals.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Where did I say anything about Messier causing the decline of the Canucks? All I pointed out was Vancouver started making the playoffs again after the Keenan, Messier experiment ended. Coincidence?

Yes I think it was a coincidence that the Canucks made the playoffs after Messier left. They had made a 25 improvement during Messier's final season and had missed the playoffs by only 4 points. It's very reasonable to think they would of made the playoffs the next year with Messier.

Trevor Linden Vancouver 6 years 4 playoff appearances
Helped provide veteran leadership to a young club. You know the role Messier was supposed to be coming here to provide.

So Messier was brought in to fill the same role Linden did when he returned in 2002? Well Linden returned to a playoff team and he finished 8th, 6th, 7th, 16th, 10th and 14th in team scoring during his final 6 seasons. This was from age 32-37.

Messier joined a non-playoff team in Vancouver in 97 and finished 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in team scoring. This was from age 37-40. That doesn't sound like the same role as Linden.