Post-Game Talk: GAME #69: Canucks 2 vs. Golden Knights 6

ErrantShepherd

Nostalgic despite the Bad
Dec 2, 2018
980
634
...Canada, eh?
I agree it's only a sport, but a Stanley Cup would mean a LOT to many people. The entire city of Vancouver.... Canucks fans are used to making the playoffs and always coming up short. We want a cup, and the best way forward is with a competent GM at the helm.

I understand you're likely fine with the team just getting into the playoffs, being 'competitive' and entertaining throughout the season so you can crack a beer and relax every game night. I get that. However, that is not happening under Benning, nor will it ever happen under Benning. Even if you don't value a Stanley Cup, what is entertaining about watching this team? Really. Come on bud.

Year after year of this ****. I want to get back to our 2011 days. Class of the NHL. Innovative. Progressive. Insanely well run. We're not doing that with a GM who still thinks he's in the 1980s.

I'm more in the "entertain me" realm of posters because I have a hard time getting my hope's up post-2011 with whatever management group comes in, so I just cheer for the kids and hope the GM and coach don't screw things up TOO horribly this time around... but yeah, that last paragraph of yours is goddamn spot on, Clunk.
 
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ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
18,459
10,107
Canuck Nation
Because we’re fans..but at the end of the day,it’s only sport.
Good job. Having failed in your primary mission of finding something anything whatsoever positive in a game where a team that's only in its second season of existence demolished the Canucks yet again, it's now time to condescend to anyone who's not happy. Yeah sure. Without people being mad about losses or happy about wins the entire sports industry dies. If Aquaman can't handle bad press he should do himself and every Canucks fan a huge favour: sell the team to someone who gives a shit and can actually hire good people.
 

ErrantShepherd

Nostalgic despite the Bad
Dec 2, 2018
980
634
...Canada, eh?
privyet komrade! I too am Russian bot!

I don't get how you guys are expecting in depth conversation on Reddit, meme/shitpost central?

People are lazy, and some people are spiteful/stupid so they'll just downvote mob. At least on forums like here, if someone disagrees with you, you can defend yourself or have an actual discussion about it.
 
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CpatainCanuck

Registered User
Sep 18, 2008
6,702
3,482
Didnt realize Markstrom has a pretty much identical stat line as last year
and should finish the season with about the same

2 shutouts
2.70 GAA
.914 sv%
60 starts

That's a pretty good stat line considering the defence he has played behind this year. There was a decent chunk of the season where Hutton and Stecher were the top pairing and Gudbranson was in the top 4.
 
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Results

Registered User
Sep 3, 2006
681
190
Vancouver
He is our number-1
But I dont think think he is a number-1. But that's my opinion.

That's fair, he doesn't have the long-term record to say otherwise. Although I will say that I think his recent run of play has been impressive, more impressive perhaps than even the stats will indicate because of how terribly the defense has played in front of him, and that this last game was an anomaly and he was a bit unlucky.

Also, goals are up around the league last I checked and save percentages are down so Markstrom's record is also contextually more impressive. I doubt these statistics are up to date for this rout, but his .915 save percentage places him 17th in the league at the moment, whereas .912 put him 31st last year. Even if his stats are "the same" as last year's.
 

ErrantShepherd

Nostalgic despite the Bad
Dec 2, 2018
980
634
...Canada, eh?
That's fair, he doesn't have the long-term record to say otherwise. Although I will say that I think his recent run of play has been impressive, more impressive perhaps than even the stats will indicate because of how terribly the defense has played in front of him, and that this last game was an anomaly and he was a bit unlucky.

Also, goals are up around the league last I checked and save percentages are down so Markstrom's record is also contextually more impressive. I doubt these statistics are up to date for this rout, but his .915 save percentage places him 17th in the league at the moment, whereas .912 put him 31st last year. Even if his stats are "the same" as last year's.

Context is a wonderful thing. Thanks for providing it. :thumbu:
 

Cogburn

Pretend they're yachts.
May 28, 2010
15,068
4,467
Vancouver
Ths three worst statistical players (all -3) werent our worst players. Here is my quick opinion on each(plus Demko):

Pearson is as slow as others who have seen him live have said. He broke up at least two plays by doing an impression of a log though...so not the worst offender. He almost nade some good plays too, that i think could have looked brilliant against a team that wasnt so, so, so, so, so much better than us.

Stetcher is not a top pairing D. No one claimed he was, but tonight demonstrated that thoroughly. He did what he could, but "enough" would have been far too much to ask of him.

Gaudette was our other -3, and I don't think he deserved to be, compared to other players anyway. Bad luck being on the ice, his contributions to the goals against were minimal and could have been anyone IMO.

Pouliot looked bad to me, a lot of give a ways and missed coverage. But by merit of his partner Biega getting two assists, he is only -1.

Markstrom was bad. Poor D for sure, but 5 in 16 at home? If this is his occasional bad game, yeah we got outplayed by a superior team, so it's not just him.

My last worst player was Eriksson tonight. I usually stand up for the guy, but tonight I couldn't think of one positive play for him all night. Beagle broke up some passes through stick work and skating and Motte hit a few players to break up plays. It wasn't a "4th line thing".

Demko looked better, but I think Vegas put the practice effort on after the hook. He did make a few saves that definitely should have been in, and I think we're just assumed would be. Kids still got time and room to grow.

But this game was men versus boys. This is what a cup contender looks like playing against a non-contender. They were faster, stronger, smarter and more motivated then us. Every time we went Icarus on them they let the sunshine, even after they took their foot off of the gas. I'm happily surprised we got two goals, I thought this game was going to be even worse than it was. A big game, a divisional rival, our team allegedly playing for its playoff life, televised on a national stage (I heard some very uninformed opinions second hand by the way)...sounds like a firing of the whole front office and coaching staff would be the next step to me.

For the love of all that's holy though, give Hughes time to practice and play with the team before throwing him into the fire though. Not just to be fair, but to ensure we don't play him more than 9 games. Not for this teams effort anyway.. .
 

Zippgunn

Registered User
May 15, 2011
3,928
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Nobody is giving the coaching staff a pass. Many of us have been very critical of the PP and some of Green's preferential treatment towards vets, but he's been far from the main issue. You give him a trash team and it's not surprising it's struggling. Also, the hiring of a competent coach falls on the GM. It's the GM's responsibility to bring in a good coach, so if you think Green is a bad coach, why don't you blame the GM who brought him in?

And no, he couldn't. Maybe he could fluke in cause the west is so bad, maybe, but they would be swept in the first round.

Why do you try to deflect the attention away from Benning onto Green?

S
h
i
l
l

Not deflecting anything; I agree Benning hasn't done a very good job as a GM but at least IMHO there are a lot of mitigating circumstances. Green almost certainly doesn't have FAQ breathing down his neck and JB has provided Green with some players that he absolutely refused to use effectively. Take Gagner for example; do you not think we could use a 40 point 3rd liner this year? Because that's what Gagner is whether anyone here wants to believe it or not and he was thriving everywhere else he has played this year and even now, despite Green's best efforts to totally neutralize him and ruin his career is scoring at roughly a 40 point pace. Nilsson was a solid backup that was completely ruined by Green by refusing to ever play him and the minute we unloaded him (for nothing basically) he re-found his game with the worst team in the NHL Del Zotto was scratched more often than not; now he's a regular, Guddy was utilized so poorly that he was an embarrassment, now he's looking like a useful player in Pittsburgh. None of these guys are stars, to be sure, but if they had been utilized even as well as their subsequent teams we would be way ahead of the game and almost certainly would be in the playoff hunt. The team's total inability to start games with any sort of competitive spirit is not Benning's fault, it is the failure of the preparation of the coaching staff. The PP is the same. My comment was in regard to the fact that it is ALWAYS Benning's name being bandied about when the games are in progress and the team looks like crap. He doesn't coach the team. Sure, blame him for hiring Green in the first place, I'm with you there, but don't blame him for the sub par performance of players (like Goldy, Elias, Boeser etc.) who absolutely should be playing better. If FAQ fires Benning but his successor keeps Green as coach absolutely nothing will change IMHO. And, yeah, I think Willie D. is twice the coach that Green is and most informed hockey people agree with me.
 
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Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
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I don't get how you guys are expecting in depth conversation on Reddit, meme/****post central?

People are lazy, and some people are spiteful/stupid so they'll just downvote mob. At least on forums like here, if someone disagrees with you, you can defend yourself or have an actual discussion about it.

I mean I don't really expect good conversation on Reddit, I don't post there. It's good as a link aggregate. The problem with Reddit is that it actually has an impact on things outside of itself based on the updoot downboat hivemind
 
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Zippgunn

Registered User
May 15, 2011
3,928
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Lhuntshi
Men against Boys. Good thing Vegas took their foot off the gas or this could have easily got into double figures. Right from the start had no problem driving the puck right into the Canuck crease and then banging away till they got it in the net. You can't stop that then you have nothing as a hockey team.

Good

Biega - far from perfect in his end but better than the rest (only one to escape with positive +/-) and contributed some offense. Maybe the best defenseman on the team right now.
So your fringe 7th d-man is your best d-man. Just brutal

Boeser - created some offense and maybe the most committed forward.

Bad

Gaudette - very scrambly in his end (often losing his check) and in way too much of a panic with the puck. Good to see Green didn't bench him as he needs ice time to find his way.

Pouliot - when the Knights pushed early he couldn't handle it. That is all you needed to see to know he just isn't NHL caliber. When Vegas backed off he was able to get some space to make plays but obviously he doesn't play well enough in his end when pressured. 4th round draft for nothing.

Stecher - tough game. Has taken too big of a load and seems to have little to give. Really sagged the last couple of games.

Eriksson - took one of the laziest penalties you'll see and was otherwise useless. Some leadership.

Pearson - looks like a Eriksson clone. Gets nothing done.

Goldobin - Vegas was too big for him. Shunted right out of the play and often dropped on his butt. Off-footed a lot of his teammates with poor passes. Sort of points out the difference in this game. Vegas is a big, skilled team and we have a smallish, mostly lesser skilled team. The Canucks have miles and miles, and years and years to go before they can be competitive with teams like Vegas. And the problem is that with our management the gap is likely to get bigger.

Ugly

Edler - that effort in the first period was miserable. Never wanted to take the man all game and showed zero composure under pressure. Looked absolutely unready to play and, as in the past, you have to worry about mental toughness. Seems to just fall apart at times.

Others

Virtanen - saw lots of aimless play but their was effort and had some dangerous shifts. At least he could keep up.

Demko - played well enough. Worked hard on not conceding rebounds and moved side to side on a couple of chances quite well. Only encouraging thing in this game. Needs to be used a lot down the stretch. Markstrom actually made some good saves before the dam broke. Really not to blame for the complete breakdown in the early going.

I wonder if there were any "Fire Benning" chants in the building?

Mostly agree but I feel that you should have mentioned Roussel who was, once again, playing like a guy who hates losing the way we are right now...
 
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me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
Not deflecting anything; I agree Benning hasn't done a very good job as a GM but at least IMHO there are a lot of mitigating circumstances.

Being bad at your job is not mitigating circumstances.

almost certainly doesn't have FAQ breathing down his neck and JB has provided Green with some players that he absolutely refused to use effectively. Take Gagner for example; do you not think we could use a 40 point 3rd liner this year? Because that's what Gagner is whether anyone here wants to believe it or not and he was thriving everywhere else he has played this year and even now, despite Green's best efforts to totally neutralize him and ruin his career is scoring at roughly a 40 point pace. Nilsson was a solid backup that was completely ruined by Green by refusing to ever play him and the minute we unloaded him (for nothing basically) he re-found his game with the worst team in the NHL Del Zotto was scratched more often than not; now he's a regular, Guddy was utilized so poorly that he was an embarrassment, now he's looking like a useful player in Pittsburgh. None of these guys are stars, to be sure, but if they had been utilized even as well as their subsequent teams we would be way ahead of the game and almost certainly would be in the playoff hunt. The team's total inability to start games with any sort of competitive spirit is not Benning's fault, it is the failure of the preparation of the coaching staff. The PP is the same. My comment was in regard to the fact that it is ALWAYS Benning's name being bandied about when the games are in progress and the team looks like crap. He doesn't coach the team. Sure, blame him for hiring Green in the first place, I'm with you there, but don't blame him for the sub par performance of players (like Goldy, Elias, Boeser etc.) who absolutely should be playing better. If FAQ fires Benning but his successor keeps Green as coach absolutely nothing will change IMHO. And, yeah, I think Willie D. is twice the coach that Green is and most informed hockey people agree with me.

So Benning has hired two dud coaches but gets a pass from you on his coaching hires. Somehow Benning being useless at judging coaching ability is mitigating circumstances
 
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Peter10

Registered User
Dec 7, 2003
4,193
5,042
Germany
Being near at your job is not mitigating circumstances.



So Benning has hired two dud coaches but gets a pass from you on his coaching hires. Somehow Benning being useless at judging coaching ability is mitigating circumstances


You forgot that Zippgunn thinks Willie Desjardins is a high end coach.
 
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tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,087
13,874
Missouri
He is our number-1
But I dont think think he is a number-1. But that's my opinion.

He’s been one of the best goaltenders in the league this year with a top 5 WAR. He is the ONLY reason the team is all the way up in 26th spot. His basic stats haven’t moved from last year because the team is shockingly worse defensively...they are allowing unbelievable chances such that a stationary SV% is actually quite an improvement.

Now that doesn’t mean he can continue with the play in the future but he has unquestionably been a #1 this year. Had some ups and downs but overall his play has been as good as any most any starter.

On to the game...I commend people around the internet and radio trying to take something good from the final 40 minutes. But it’s meaningless. As soon as you spot your opposition a 5-1 lead after the first there can be no silver linings to be found because it’s no longer a real game.
 
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Balls Mahoney

2015-2016 HF Premier League World Champion
Aug 14, 2008
20,402
1,922
Legend
I hardly go on HFBoards at all (I think this account is several years (or months) old with no posts) but holy **** its annoying on Reddit right now. Any criticism of Benning gets thumbed down and then hidden and I have 2 guys following me around calling me a paid bot and talking about how my anti-Benning arguments are like a computer wrote them. It's just....****...

Reddit is literally the worst platform on the internet that rewards mediocrity and idiocy over any sort of reality. The upvote system is complete cancer.
 

Balls Mahoney

2015-2016 HF Premier League World Champion
Aug 14, 2008
20,402
1,922
Legend
Because we’re fans..but at the end of the day,it’s only sport.

It's a billion dollar corporation and business in which we the customers get f***ed in year after year. This isn't pee-wee. If this was a McDonalds, instead of getting burgers we'd be getting raw meat on Chinese newspaper with excuses about how they'll have elite burgers next year and how we just got a prime cow off waivers.
 
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