Post-Game Talk: GAME #66: Vancouver Canucks 0 @ Vegas Golden Knights 3

[EpochLink]

He was right about everything except for the part where he was right about absolutely nothing at all.

Oh, except when he called David Booth a "weird dude". He was pretty spot on about that.

Yeah, no, I'd rather gouge my eyes out than even entertain the idea of Tortorella coaching one more game for us.

Tortorella was a bad fit here, we had no prospects on the up rising and we had a stale core that didn't listen and buy into his plan.

Plus wasn't he just here collecting checks and coasting? What coaching did he accomplish?
When he looked at this roster and saw past their prime players, he was like 'oh can't do nothing here, I need better ones'..

 

[Yultron]

Playing Gaudette 10 minutes a night is absolutely developing the young players .

I can’t say I’ve been thrilled with Green lately when we have nothing left to play for this season

 

[WTG]

So you know better?And how is it a "fallacy"? Because you say so?

Google appeal to authority.
Do you think it's something I came up with? I'm flattered.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Tortorella was a bad fit here, we had no prospects on the up rising and we had a stale core that didn't listen and buy into his plan.

Plus wasn't he just here collecting checks and coasting? What coaching did he accomplish?
When he looked at this roster and saw past their prime players, he was like 'oh can't do nothing here, I need better ones'..

You don't say?...glad you said it..Half the people on here are in complete denial of that fact.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Playing Gaudette 10 minutes a night is absolutely developing the young players .

I can’t say I’ve been thrilled with Green lately when we have nothing left to play for this season

Agreed. What’s Green trying to do? Win? By overplaying the scrubs we got from teams that didn’t want them? Green should Focus on developing the kids for next season and let EP develop some chemistry with his linemates, don’t keep changing the lines every 3 games, the season is almost over.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Agreed. What’s Green trying to do? Win? By overplaying the scrubs we got from teams that didn’t want them? Green should Focus on developing the kids for next season and let EP develop some chemistry with his linemates, don’t keep changing the lines every 3 games, the season is almost over.

His job is to get as good a w/l record with what ever players the GM gives him.

I really dont blame him.

 

[PG Canuck]

His job is to get as good a w/l record with what ever players the GM gives him.

I really dont blame him.

Then Green should maybe not lean on the worst players to win games.

 

[mossey3535]

You know, it's possible to develop players to the point where they can help you win games....especially when the vets are basically shitting the bed.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

#weareallthattcherdemko

 

[me2]

Then Green should maybe not lean on the worst players to win games.

The kids are gassed, after the kids it is all worst players.

 

[orcatown]

I'll just do the Orcatown summary:

Good: Markstrom and the weather

Bad: Everyone including management and the owners

Pretty much. Had to be one of the easiest shutouts in League history. Getting the puck out of their end was a real triumph for the team in this game.

Think this all has little to do with Green. This team has to have Horvat playing great to compete and he has looked done in the last few games. One of the worst players. Pettersson is feeling the effects of an NHL schedule, Gaudette isn't ready and Beagle is a 4th line plug. You've got nothing down the middle. And don't get me started on the defense other than to say Edler is very bad right now.

Whole thing is a real mess and if Markstrom fades this could get unmercifully rough.

Like you said weather was great and being on the ocean made it better. But then you come home to watch this and you're back to the reality of being a Canuck fan.

 

[mathonwy]

Canucks looked like they partied at the UFC all night and Knights looked like it was a just another day at the office.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Pretty much. Had to be one of the easiest shutouts in League history. Getting the puck out of their end was a real triumph for the team in this game.

Think this all has little to do with Green. This team has to have Horvat playing great to compete and he has looked done in the last few games. One of the worst players. Pettersson is feeling the effects of an NHL schedule, Gaudette isn't ready and Beagle is a 4th line plug. You've got nothing down the middle. And don't get me started on the defense other than to say Edler is very bad right now.

Whole thing is a real mess and if Markstrom fades this could get unmercifully rough.

Like you said weather was great and being on the ocean made it better. But then you come home to watch this and you're back to the reality of being a Canuck fan.

I would argue that our Centers (which are the strength of this team) are exhausted from having to do all of the heavy lifting given that we have arguably the worst 6 man defense unit in the league, and 1.5 (Goldy is .5) top 6 wingers (since Baertschi has been hurt all year).

Further, our good players are all young players who don't know how to pace themselves. They blew themselves out trying to carry the Granlunds and the Pouliots of this team (there are like 9 of them).

I would like to add that Pouliot is the human embodiment of an amateur lobotomy and [MOD]

 

[Melvin]

@Melvin is there a way to calculate what our expected GA would be if Markstrom was replaced with middle of the road goaltending?

Hmmmm, Based on the distance of their 48 shots on goal, and the type/situation, I have them with 4.3 expected goals today. That's up there, but not as high as the game against Calgary on Feb 9th (5.14)

I didn't watch the game today, or, indeed, even know it was on, but based on the comments in this thread there might some more variables I need to account for!

FWIW he stopped 13 shots that were within 15 feet, together would have expected 2-3 goals from those. But he also allowed a goal from 46 feet out which brings down his score a bit.

Unfortunately I don't have NHL.tv anymore so I can't go back and look at them all. The save I have as least probable was on Stastny 5 minutes into the 3rd on the PK; I watched the condensed game but they didn't show it. Would be curious to know what you guys would consider his best saves so that I can look up and see how they scored.

 

[Peter10]

People who have Twitter should be - repeatedly - asking Fredo how comfortable he is having someone who has spent $350 million so badly over the past 5 years on such terrible pro scouting and talent evaluation controlling the $30 million in cap space this summer while trying to save his job.

But be careful, if you do it too often Francesco will block you.

 

[Peter10]

My summary of the game:

 

[me2]

Everybody focuses on the forwards, and granted in this game none of them looked good.

But the root of the Canucks problems starts and at times ends with the blueline. They can't win puck battles; their zone exits are the worst in the NHL; and they generate next to nothing offensively. There's a reason why they come out in the first periods and get buried alive in the first 10 minutes.

Look around the league at the teams that are successful. They've got d-man who are skilled at zone exits; can join the rush; can score off the cycle; and get back when the other teams transition the puck.

This Canuck blueline has been exposed every which way you can get exposed on this trip. Beaten by guys coming out of the penalty box; slow to react to uncovered guys in the slot and brutal d-zone turnovers. Can't win puck battles in their own zone to save their lives. Even Hutton and Stecher are wearing down. This was easily their worst three-game stretch of the season so far.

Jimbo is on record as saying he wants to 'fix' the blueline this off-season. He's a year late and a pound short. The time to have done something about this blueline was LAST season. Instead he brings the same group back and then goes out and pays inflated prices for three, third and fourth line grinders in Beagle, Schaller and Roussel.

Unfortunately, you can't win when the GM doesn't give you the tools you need to win.

He's been fixing the blue line since the Sbisa trade, fixed it dumping Hamhuis and adding Gudbranson, bringing in offense in Larsen, speed in Bartkowski, 2-way Pouliot etc

 

[Intangibos]

Juolevi is not even a top pairing Defenseman in the AHL lol

Just like the Canucks aren't a team that win draft lotteries

 

[timw33]

Hmmmm, Based on the distance of their 48 shots on goal, and the type/situation, I have them with 4.3 expected goals today. That's up there, but not as high as the game against Calgary on Feb 9th (5.14)

I didn't watch the game today, or, indeed, even know it was on, but based on the comments in this thread there might some more variables I need to account for!

FWIW he stopped 13 shots that were within 15 feet, together would have expected 2-3 goals from those. But he also allowed a goal from 46 feet out which brings down his score a bit.

Unfortunately I don't have NHL.tv anymore so I can't go back and look at them all. The save I have as least probable was on Stastny 5 minutes into the 3rd on the PK; I watched the condensed game but they didn't show it. Would be curious to know what you guys would consider his best saves so that I can look up and see how they scored.

I was more thinking of the broader season i.e if we had only run of the mill goaltending, where would this team be in the the standings?

Still super fascinating stuff with the shot distance being factored in though—appreciate the insight!

 

[Matte99]

Petey looked dreadfully slow out there. He looks gassed for sure but he also needs to get faster to become a top tier player imho. Overall i felt like the team was so hard pushed that they didnt have the strength to push back. One should also mention Vegas played a good game and got a significantly deeper team.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Yes, we all know better than to hire someone who single-handedly cost a team an NHL playoff series by conceding last change and line matchups to the opposing coach.

Willie is the worst coach in the NHL in the last 25 years and is proving it again this year in LA.

How the f*** do you not have Ilya Kovalchuk as the triggerman on the PP? I've been screaming this all season. Not only did this guy screw me for years as a Canucks fan. Now he's screwing my fantasy teams.

Although I think Eakins was worse.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Petey looked dreadfully slow out there. He looks gassed for sure but he also needs to get faster to become a top tier player imho. Overall i felt like the team was so hard pushed that they didnt have the strength to push back. One should also mention Vegas played a good game and got a significantly deeper team.

The Canucks couldn't even get the puck out of their zone, let alone a pushback...Along with the DiPietro game against the Sharks, this was an absolute no show .

 

[PG Canuck]

The kids are gassed, after the kids it is all worst players.

If someone like Gaudette is gassed then we may as well just label him a bust and move on now.

(He’s not a bust and he’s not tired)

It’s embarassing for Green to say he loves Gaudettes game and then to play him 10minutes and under EVERY single time. Green is as big of a liar as Benning, and just about as clueless too.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Man, you've assembled a whole lot of examples of the "appeal to authority" fallacy.

You're mis-using the term "appeal to authority"

The ad verecundiam fallacy concerns appeals to authority or expertise. Fundamentally, the fallacy involves accepting as evidence for a proposition the pronouncement of someone who is taken to be an authority but is not really an authority.

Fallacies (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[WTG]

You're mis-using the term "appeal to authority"


Fallacies (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Fair enough.
We can argue if hockey GMs have more authority than statistics but that's just semantics.