GDT: Game 64: Vegas Golden Knights @ Anaheim Ducks | 7:00PM | Banana Bread Day.

[Boris Zubov]

Mcnabb IS a punishing dman and was on the ice for the last 2 that were scored right on top of the net. Would it be nice to get a top 4 guy who's a mean SOB and can play 20 minutes? Obviously. Problem is, I'd wager there is no one like that available.

We'd like to think he is, but he really isn't. I like Nabber, but there's too many nights he's too easy to play against.

 

[MrLouniverse]

Mcnabb IS a punishing dman and was on the ice for the last 2 that were scored right on top of the net. Would it be nice to get a top 4 guy who's a mean SOB and can play 20 minutes? Obviously. Problem is, I'd wager there is no one like that available.

Brodin?

 

[Ginger Papa]

This is what I said would happen.

Nostravegas

 

[HanSolo]

Brodin?

Brodin is not mean lol

 

[willy702]

Six wins in a row and half the posters want to add two or three more players to ever so slightly increase the teams chances, while possibly gutting our chances to stay good in the future. Come on guys, teams rarely win cups at the TDL

 

[CupInSIX]

Mcnabb IS a punishing dman and was on the ice for the last 2 that were scored right on top of the net. Would it be nice to get a top 4 guy who's a mean SOB and can play 20 minutes? Obviously. Problem is, I'd wager there is no one like that available.

This game in particular should be a write off. B2B coming off a big win streak against really good teams. Subban in net and look at the goals the Ducks scored. Lot of fluky bounces and Theo literally handed them one.

A little late for that, innit? They could sign Goodass or Dildon in the offseason though.

 

[Vegas07]

Six wins in a row and half the posters want to add two or three more players to ever so slightly increase the teams chances, while possibly gutting our chances to stay good in the future. Come on guys, teams rarely win cups at the TDL

I don’t want another trade right now. We’re not getting anyone that will help the defense.

 

[Vegas07]

I really thought this was going to a shootout with Subban.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Six wins in a row and half the posters want to add two or three more players to ever so slightly increase the teams chances, while possibly gutting our chances to stay good in the future. Come on guys, teams rarely win cups at the TDL

Whether we trade the picks now or the prospects those picks become later, we are a wheeler dealer team. We have to learn to embrace it.

 

[MrLouniverse]

Brodin is not mean lol

Fair dos, I'd still very much like to pick him up for a price he's not likely to be available at. Or Vatanen.

ETA: Also Severson, while I'm typing out a wish list.

 

[hangman005]

Wild Bill with 3 goals, Stone with 4 Assists. Me likey.

 

[HanSolo]

Fair dos, I'd still very much like to pick him up for a price he's not likely to be available at. Or Vatanen.

ETA: Also Severson, while I'm typing out a wish list.

I'd rather Brodin than Vatanen. See my problem with this team and some who follow it's desire to add puck movers is that the names on the table are guys who bring puck moving at the expense of responsible defense which is why those puck movers on bad teams are on the block in the first place. Our team needs to tighten up defensively. Not make things worse. Martinez and Whitecloud are a big step in the right direction and are good enough at puck moving that I really have less than zero interest in acquiring defensive liabilities like Gustafsson, Barrie, or Vatanen.

 

[Ginger Papa]

Six wins in a row and half the posters want to add two or three more players to ever so slightly increase the teams chances, while possibly gutting our chances to stay good in the future. Come on guys, teams rarely win cups at the TDL

 

[HanSolo]

Lmao. I really feel like Ken has gotten better this year but he can't get over this pull the goalie early shit

 

[MrLouniverse]

I'd rather Brodin than Vatanen. See my problem with this team and some who follow it's desire to add puck movers is that the names on the table are guys who bring puck moving at the expense of responsible defense which is why those puck movers on bad teams are on the block in the first place. Our team needs to tighten up defensively. Not make things worse. Martinez and Whitecloud are a big step in the right direction and are good enough at puck moving that I really have less than zero interest in acquiring defensive liabilities like Gustafsson, Barrie, or Vatanen.

I agree with what you're saying, principally, and no move is better than a bad move. Where I differ from some of the posters on here is that I think that potentially handicapping a moderate amount of our future development is worth shoring up our defense right now.
If you're GMKM is there anyone you're driving hard at tonight or are you content to let this team ride?

 

[Vegan Knight]

Fair dos, I'd still very much like to pick him up for a price he's not likely to be available at. Or Vatanen.

ETA: Also Severson, while I'm typing out a wish list.

Hurricanes aren't willing to pay more than a 2nd for Vatanen, according to reports so I'm not sure he's too expensive.

 

[HanSolo]

I agree with what you're saying, principally, and no move is better than a bad move. Where I differ from some of the posters on here is that I think that potentially handicapping a moderate amount of our future development is worth shoring up our defense right now.
If you're GMKM is there anyone you're driving hard at tonight or are you content to let this team ride?

Brodin if the price is fair. Other than that the rest of the field can f*** off. We don't need defensive liabilities and I resent the idea that a team can't contend without a high amount of offense from the blueline.

 

[Ginger Papa]

I'd rather Brodin than Vatanen. See my problem with this team and some who follow it's desire to add puck movers is that the names on the table are guys who bring puck moving at the expense of responsible defense which is why those puck movers on bad teams are on the block in the first place. Our team needs to tighten up defensively. Not make things worse. Martinez and Whitecloud are a big step in the right direction and are good enough at puck moving that I really have less than zero interest in acquiring defensive liabilities like Gustafsson, Barrie, or Vatanen.

This is an excellent Post @HanSolo . IIRC you are quite busy but I’d suggest that you consider expanding this concept into a short Article. Well done.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Hurricanes aren't willing to pay more than a 2nd for Vatanen, according to reports so I'm not sure he's too expensive.

I'm a big Vats fan, but I don't think he'll fit in our lineup. The only way it would work is if they put Whitecloud with Theo and I don't know if that is something PDB would do. Vats and Theo were not good together in the little time they spent with each other in Anaheim and aren't a fit style wise.

I think Gustafsson is the play because he's way cheaper and you can slide him in with Whitey and AMart with Theo.

 

[willy702]

I'd rather Brodin than Vatanen. See my problem with this team and some who follow it's desire to add puck movers is that the names on the table are guys who bring puck moving at the expense of responsible defense which is why those puck movers on bad teams are on the block in the first place. Our team needs to tighten up defensively. Not make things worse. Martinez and Whitecloud are a big step in the right direction and are good enough at puck moving that I really have less than zero interest in acquiring defensive liabilities like Gustafsson, Barrie, or Vatanen.

I really don't get the hate for Barrie. I get it that they probably can't sign him, but that just has to be part of the assets equation. He's not a bad defender, he's just offensive minded so he can get caught pinching. Put a guy like McNabb behind him and he's a real upgrade. But it just shows there is no reason to do a deal, too many players who are already around, like what are you going to do, have Nate and Shea play together? Seems nice, but doesn't seem like the best matching of talents there. Same thing with Gustafsson. Just doesn't make sense with what they have. If they are going to make a big move do it in the off-season where they have more flexibility and can make other moves to balance things out.

 

[MrLouniverse]

In defense of Vatanen, I wouldn't mind having another RHD besides ZW.

 

[The Duck Knight]

I really don't get the hate for Barrie. I get it that they probably can't sign him, but that just has to be part of the assets equation. He's not a bad defender, he's just offensive minded so he can get caught pinching. Put a guy like McNabb behind him and he's a real upgrade. But it just shows there is no reason to do a deal, too many players who are already around, like what are you going to do, have Nate and Shea play together? Seems nice, but doesn't seem like the best matching of talents there. Same thing with Gustafsson. Just doesn't make sense with what they have. If they are going to make a big move do it in the off-season where they have more flexibility and can make other moves to balance things out.

The problem with Barrie is two fold. Toronto is going to need something to help them now or a 1st to flip. Those aren't a fit for us asset wise because we can't sign him. And Barrie is essentially Theodore as a player. Dynamite offensively, but needs prime minutes on the PP and ES. You can't have Barrie or Theo on a matchup pair. You also probably don't want to play them together.

If you can get Gus cheap (3rd at most) you can slot him with Whitecloud and give them the easiest minutes. If it's not a fit you re-insert Holden. Cheap depth is a need. No team goes deep in the playoffs using only 6 dmen and I want no part of Engelland and Merrill being the next man up.

 

[Vegas07]

Anybody missing Cody Eakin right now? Me neither.

 

[HanSolo]

This is an excellent Post @HanSolo . IIRC you are quite busy but I’d suggest that you consider expanding this concept into a short Article. Well done.

I mean it does come from a place of bias. I've always felt that offense from defenders is far less important than their defensive contribution. I grew up admiring guys like Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer, Chelios, Chara, etc. Guys who could put up a ton of points but were also a nightmare to play against in their own zone. For me I'll take the guy that isn't very offensively gifted but can be relied on to keep the puck out of good shooting lanes and away from the crease over the guy who gets 35 points but constantly gets burned in his own zone every single time. IMO, a defenseman's first and foremost job is defense and every goal they prevent is FAR more valuable than any goal they assist on.

As the league evolves we're starting to see a lot of defensemen who are basically just a fourth forward. Guys like Burns, Barrie, Vatanen, Krug, etc. Guys who are better than the average forward at defending but are also guys you wouldn't trust at all to defend a lead in the final minute. Obviously I agree that you need at least two powerplay quarterbacks but they shouldn't be defensive liabilities. We already have two guys that can handle being a PP qb in Theodore and Schmidt and a third if you count Hague.

Right now looking at the makeup of our blueline you have the staple Schmidt and McNabb pair who can be called a flawed but solid second pair. Theodore is basically the first pair with whoever the coaches decide to try him with on any given night. Generally Theodore is our go to two way presence and our number one defender. Then you now have a really solid duo of responsible defensemen in Martinez and Whitecloud. So the way it looks right now is this

Merrill/Holden/Engo-Theodore
Schmidt-McNabb
Martinez-Whitecloud

Hague

Merrill/Holden/Engo are basically the trio of players this team eventually need to phase out but at least we know what we're getting with them. Engo just shouldn't play anymore, while Merrill and Holden have the capacity for competence but also can be directly responsible for high quality chances against. Now let's say we go out and get Gustafsson with his dogshit GA5v5 stat for his ability to move the puck. Look up at that current pairing map. Who do you knock off? The currently hot Martinez that we just traded for? Of course not. Do you bench the rookie Whitecloud who's played nearly mistake free defensively responsible hockey? It could happen but it shouldn't. So looking at that you would bench the whole phase out trio of Holden, Merrill, and Engo for a guy who has a worse GA5v5 than any of them just for the sake of maybe 10-15 more points from the blueline down the stretch but probably a lot more goals against.

So say we make that trade, these would be our pair options (not gonna bother being accurate with defensive sides, I never remember)

Option 1:

Shea-Gus
Nate-Nabb
Marti-Cloudy

Pro: don't have to worry about Holden or Merrill; you get a lot of offensive bite from one pairing.
Con: by switching out one of Holden or Merrill with Gus you're getting a guy who is even more likely to blow defensive coverage and surrender high danger chances; Theodore, who is having a career year offensively now has even more responsibility to baby sit a defensively bankrupt partner which cuts away from our best defender's effectiveness.

Option 2

Shea-Holden/Merrill
Nate-Nabb
Marti-Gus

Pro: lower ice time for Gus to expose our goalie, saves Gus' energy for powerplay; Shea, while still having to babysit a defensively weak player has less of that responsibility.

Con: benches Whitecloud who has been one of our most defensively responsible players since his debut; now forces Martinez who has actually been strong at activating from the point offensively to babysit Gus, Gus' own offensive ability does negate the impact of Martinez nullifying his offensive contribution, but probably not by a lot since as a third pairing defenseman he won't share ice with the Stone and Marchessault lines much.

Option 3:

Shea-Nate
Nabb-Marti
Gus-Cloudy

Pro: there's something solid about having your best two defenders together at the same time; Martinez, defensively is an improvement over Schmidt which would make the second pairing a great shutdown option; don't have to worry about Holden or Merrill.

Con: there's something impractical about having your two best defensemen on the same pair since it's often better to have them on the ice for 40 minutes or more at a time; as good as Marti has been offensively that isn't likely to last and separating Schmidt from McNabb takes the offensive threat away from the second pair to overload the first for less time across the length of the game; good as Whitecloud has been I doubt he's learned enough to babysit Gus and his negative defensive presence.


So to end a long ass post, the question I ask is: is another ten to fifteen points (points, not goals) from the blueline really worth all those cons?

If your answer is no then you should feel, as I do, that chasing one of those available puck movers really isn't a dire need and could be more trouble than it's worth.

Edit: now that I'm thinking about it there is a fourth option

Shea-Marti
Nate-Nabb
Gus-Cloudy

I still don't like the idea of Whitecloud having to babysit Gustafsson or any of the others though. With Holden and Merrill there's at least a plausible chance that they could have a competent night defensively.

 

[HanSolo]

TL;DR: I'd rather the Knights do nothing than commit assets to a player whose defensive liability outweighs their offensive contribution which describes all the PMDs on the block.