moosemeister
5,000 strong
Just listed the rest of my seats for the remainder of the year. f*** this team
Tocchet keeps him on the 3rd line because he cannot handle better competition and better defenders at ES. He hasn't contributed to a line when moved up consistently. This is why he was quickly shuffled out of the top 6 to start the year, given a look with Hall, and then moved back down. It has nothing to do with 'spreading the offense around'. It's more about containing the contagion that is Phil Kessel at ES by putting him with the least important players. Moving up Phil is not a net gain.
Kessel is still receiving sheltered zone starts at ES but does nothing with it.
He's a waste of cap and TOI. His P/60 is now below 1 and still only ahead of Richardson and Fischer, guys who start in the defensive zone about 75% of the time.
You keep creating a narrative where Phil is not the one responsible for his poor play. No, it's always due to something else, despite the fact they've tried Phil in basically every line/situation possible.
Can we fire Tocchet AND get rid of the players?!You know who else is a waste of cap and TOI? Pretty much everyone else on our team except for Garland / Hall / Chych / Kuemps, maybe Raanta or DVo depending how you view things.
You trade Kessel nothing happens (if you can even trade him, he's paid a lot relative to current production). You fire the coach? Maybe these players are no longer a waste of cap. Worth a shot at least
You know who else is a waste of cap and TOI? Pretty much everyone else on our team except for Garland / Hall / Chych / Kuemps, maybe Raanta or DVo depending how you view things.
I watched. It was bad. Disgusting and pathetic. They were asleep to start and didn’t wake up until six minutes into the second. Then they played pretty good, or at least with some gusto for a while. They closed out the game in such an infuriatingly apathetic way.Didn't watch, so I don't really belong in a GDT. Here's what's going to happen. The team will win just enough games to make management think they have a shot at the playoffs. They won't move Hall at the trade deadline, thereby recouping zero assets that they lost. Then Hall won't sign here when they don't make the playoffs. At least he was fun to watch here for a while.
That’s right. It was the nail in the coffin loss tonight. Absolute disgrace. This team is a disgrace.That one is a bit of a nail in the coffin. Time to get the tank thread rolling?
There you go. Good coaches. Great staff.Kessel finished with 17:20 TOI btw. Third highest on the team, and three more minutes than Conor Garland.
Hard to believe losing the goalie (albeit a great goalie) meant this much to the team. Scoring was supposed to be the problem. Het Hall = more scoring = wins, right?That’s right. It was the nail in the coffin loss tonight. Absolute disgrace. This team is a disgrace.
I like Hall better than I like the Coyotes. But yeah, this team is NOT making the playoffs and he’s not saying with ANY team that fails to make the playoffs. So it would be dumb not to trade him.Hard to believe losing the goalie (albeit a great goalie) meant this much to the team. Scoring was supposed to be the problem. Het Hall = more scoring = wins, right?
I know your are a big advocate for signing Hall but I think chances are verrrrry thin. I would trade him to someone for a 1st and a good prospect. Or a really good C prospect. How about Hall to Colorado for Newhook?
Schmaltz is doing fine and making about market rate. Keller can still get better. Still, neither of them is producing less than two one-eyed players:
Brad Richardson has no legs and starts in the defensive zone 75% of the time just to put those numbers into perspective. The "driving a line like Kane" guy can't even outproduce his crappy linemates you keep blaming for his struggles.
Call a spade a spade. Kessel is a boat anchor that has to be heavily sheltered for no return.
why don't you enclose the link instead of copy / pasting? At this point I think you might be actively trolling.
As you can see, Kessel has ~1 P/60 at 5v5 (I think that's the table XX copied above). But, if you take total P/60 incl all situations, he's at 1.83 which is still bad but #7 on the team (not including Jordan Gross).
Regardless both stats are irrelevant -- we've already agreed Kessel hasn't been producing offense at 5v5 -- not sure what you're trying to show by including the above table. Maybe if Kessel had better ES linemates he'd have more than 1 point per 60 at ES. That's a coaching decision.
But yeah, Kessel's has had a down year because... 1) his ES linemates haven't been able to get open against top 4 NHL defensemen
Next time include the link, we're all trying to get smarter here
Regardless both stats are irrelevant -- we've already agreed Kessel hasn't been producing offense at 5v5
Kessel is awful on the point on the PP.
Your argument continues to be that he is dragged down by his bad linemates.
Kessel is what he is, you're just not willing to admit it.
2) I think Kessel is bad this year
3) I think part of the reason Kessel is bad this year is Tocchet has screwed up his usage (e.g. playing for most of the year with Crouse and Soda/Step and soaking up minutes on the point during the power play)
4) In another thread, you have said that you think Tocchet is a bad coach for a number of reasons incl in-game adjustment. Lines are an in-game adjustment and leaving Kessel on the PP point all year (among other things) is the definition of a lack of adjusting
Nah... I'm not really trying to defend Kessel. Well, maybe I am a little bit. Mostly I'm attacking Tocchet.
Nah... I'm not really trying to defend Kessel. Well, maybe I am a little bit. Mostly I'm attacking Tocchet.
XX, I need you to read posts in the various points before entering these point by point arguments. We all need you to do this because it'll help the discussions get that much better for not only the posters but also the lurkers.
Here is what I said, in this thread, before any of the comments we've been writing each other tonight (it's message #187)
SR understood this in his reply that came right after my post (message #188) which was right before you decided to revisit this old discussion / argument / whatever you want to call it. Would have been better for everyone if you had understood this too.
Nah... I'm not really trying to defend Kessel. Well, maybe I am a little bit. Mostly I'm attacking Tocchet.
Re: Kessel, I'm not disagreeing he's been bad... but it's mostly because Tocchet has really f****d his usage. Watching all the home games until Feb 4, Kessel's awful at keeping the puck inside the blue line and also a turnover machine, mostly because his linemates were never open (vast majority was Crouse and Step / Soda who you can't expect to get open with top 4 NHL defenders). He also never really adjusted to the point on the PP... that said I don't know if he's ever played point on the PP before, he certainly never did in Pitt. Does anyone actually know?
Anyway last few games I've got what I wanted, namely Kessel with two guys who can supposedly play a skill game in Keller and Schmaltz. Except now they all stink together (that's probably bad coaching too) it's not just Kessel.
Anyway in my view the coaches job is to get the best players playing like the best players. As everyone has said, except for a few folks most of our players are not playing very well. And that's on the coaching more than anyone else.
Now you're attempting to claim that no, you didn't actually make an argument about Kessel, his numbers, and deployment or attempt to refute what I was stating.
what are you even talking about? Obviously we have been talking about Kessel and his numbers / deployment etc. More confused now than ever, not sure how or why you got the impression I was denying that
You think Kessel should get better linemates and more opportunity. I think he should be sent home to seek a trade via his agent. I don't think there's a way to be further apart on a player.
Gogo I think has been quite consistent this year, and I mean that in a good way, but man, when he makes a mistake they are big one's.Anyone that thinks Goligoski isn't a problem needs to watch the 1st goal against over and over again.
One of the kids make a mistake they ride the pine or demoted, but one of RT's fav's do the same they get more TOI.TSN openly talking about the need to scratch Kessel and how it hasn't been done because he's on that stupid streak
This team has lost their direction, and no one knows how to right the ship.Lose this game and kiss the playoffs good bye, imo. Yes they are "right there" except they aren't.
Making the playoffs would require actually winning some freaking games for once. Especially in games like this. Absurd effort so far and it's embarrassing.
Can't wait till RT goes back to his fav's and gives Kessel and Stepan first line minutes again. You know it's going to happen.By the same staff that is giving prime minutes to Kessel and co while yanking Garland around? Good luck with that.