Goal-Day Thread Game 6: Former Blackhawks @ Blackhawks - 5:30 PM - FSAZ

[Dirty Old Man]

All the yabbering about the vets mailing it in..... Haven’t seen anyone mention it was Keller who had the brain fart which let Gustafsson go to the net unchallenged for the Hawks goal..

Yup, wondering when someone was gonna mention this, too. Keller needed to keep coming down and did not.

 

[BigMac1212]

Yay, the Coyotes are scoring goals.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

Fun game to watch. I like seeing Crouse on the line with Keller... Keller's goal was a result of Crouse going to the boards and making that player panic with the puck to cough it right up to Keller. Just seemed like pretty good chemistry from those two tonight.

Defense was, imo, not bad overall. A couple of big blunders (I think Goligoski had a rough game with his decisions) here and there but they were good about trying to make up for them. Raanta brought it and the team was solid.

Strome having a quiet game doesn't bother me too much if the team is getting a W and his line is keeping the other team off the board too. Not every game can be a possession gem.

Grabner just deserves a goal, flat out. He's just so smoothly fast out there and creates chances with solid D.

This is the kind of win the Yotes needed, imo. Got their 5v5 goal so the pressure to do that is lifted... they got more than 2 goals (without needing an empty net to do so) so that's good... and they beat a team in their barn who wasn't playing so bad themselves.

Winnipeg is gonna be an interesting test. Big, heavy team with skill there... Hope the Yotes are ready to rumble.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

Last night's win gets us one point better than last October. For Katie Connauton: 4 > 3

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I 100% agree with your last sentence. The NHL is a game of mistakes, you make less of them, you win. The Hawks were a little better last night but not by much. Raanta>Crow carried the game, crow wasn't horrible either. We beat the Hawks in Chicago 4-1, tell me what there is to complain about again?

I figured we must have common ground here somewhere - it's the mistakes that have me knocking the D. We will see these mistakes with aggressive play, but I think we can do better.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Nice win. I think it has been said multiple years prior to this, but it is 100% about quality of shots. People may not have liked Tippett's system and we rarely had the talent equivalent in his years here relative to this year, but I'll be damned if we did not get the most quality shots out of the amount we muster.

We can get out-shot, but if we are putting more quality opportunities on the opposition's net, we should consistently be in games and/or winning these types of games.

We are still sorting some things out, but remember the 2011-12 season with the undefeated February? I fully see us stringing together a DEC/JAN/FEB to remember down the line.

I also think that we may consider moving on from Goligoski or Demers at some point in the year. Both Lyubushkin and Oesterle appear to be doing fine and they are not considered liabilities for us. If we can use one of them to help secure a little more shot power out of our offense, we could be in good shape.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

People may not have liked Tippett's system and we rarely had the talent equivalent in his years here relative to this year, but I'll be damned if we did not get the most quality shots out of the amount we muster.

I think that's pretty heavy revisionism there.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think that's pretty heavy revisionism there.

Yeah, but it is the same argument that has always been had.

I bet if you went back, we would find so many posts about how we were outshot by the other team, and from 2013 onward, we simply didn't have the talent level to keep pace. From 09-12, we were out-shot, but that was when we got the most quality out of our shots. The 3 years that we made the playoffs was the time when I remember we were top 5 in points scored from defensemen. That is a sign of getting the puck through traffic, which helped us gain our opportunities as goalies couldn't find the puck.

People can think what they want regarding our shot quality, and with more talent, our shot quality definitely went up, but we wouldn't have been able to squeeze as many strong games out of players without the shot quality that we were able to obtain. So, hopefully for the rest of the year, we can start racheting up our quality of shots in addition to maintaining a shot advantage on the opposition.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I'm not sure what you mean by "shot quality", because "Scoring Chances" I believe are considered good chances and the Coyotes are 5th in the league, and I know that with Tippett we were never in the top 20...just saying!

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Love a win, particularly these sort of wins when the goalie makes key saves at key moments. These are not our prototypical wins historically- we are more a team that would lose a game because of the opposing team would have that type of goaltending.

I think Raanta is truly a game changer for us, I can see him as a guy who can change our destiny.

But for now, let's win two in a row and start a streak.

 

[cobra427]

I'm not sure what you mean by "shot quality", because "Scoring Chances" I believe are considered good chances and the Coyotes are 5th in the league, and I know that with Tippett we were never in the top 20...just saying!

We never ranked that high with with Tip mostly because we didn't have the talent. A #5 rank in scoring chances will pay off with more goals. That and if our 2.0 GAA continues, we will make the playoffs.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I'm not sure what you mean by "shot quality", because "Scoring Chances" I believe are considered good chances and the Coyotes are 5th in the league, and I know that with Tippett we were never in the top 20...just saying!

Scoring chances and shot quality can be somewhat independent of each other. A wrap-around can count as a scoring chance, but it is very possible that the defense has forced a poor wrap-around try and sealed the edge of the crease off. While the puck can skitter around into the slot and get knocked into the goal, if the defense has their sticks on the ice at the edge of the goal mouth, that could be considered a poor quality shot. A shot from 38 feet away is likely a worse quality shot than one from 24 feet away, due to lack of reaction time from the goalie, but both could be considered a scoring chance.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I am more than happy to credit any success that this team has relative to previous years to Tocchet. I just want that success. I liked Tippett. I hated Maloney. They've both moved on. I'm conflicted about Tocchet. Last year's Tocchet was a rigid ass hole who wouldn't bend an inch to coach to his player's strengths. It's not like he's doing a bang up job 6 games into the season, but its hard to blame him when his players like to shoot at the goalie's logo so much. My gut instinct is that the lack of scoring is more on the players, less on the coach. This from the guy that wanted to fire Tocchet 20 games in last year.

 

[XX]

All the yabbering about the vets mailing it in..... Haven’t seen anyone mention it was Keller who had the brain fart which let Gustafsson go to the net unchallenged for the Hawks goal.

Yup, wondering when someone was gonna mention this, too. Keller needed to keep coming down and did not.

Keller is behind Gustafsson, that's Goligoski's guy. Goligoski is not supposed to cross there because you don't play man coverage in the NHL hardly ever. Please watch it again and note how Goligoski turns a completely controllable situation into a 3v2 down low with a wide open Gustafsson.

That is absolutely not on Keller. That's 2 D that aren't on the same page. Goligoski should know better.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Keller is behind Gustafsson, that's Goligoski's guy. Goligoski is not supposed to cross there because you don't play man coverage in the NHL hardly ever. Please watch it again and note how Goligoski turns a completely controllable situation into a 3v2 down low with a wide open Gustafsson.

That is absolutely not on Keller. That's 2 D that aren't on the same page. Goligoski should know better.

Both Tocchet and Keller had mentioned that it was Keller's fault after the game.

 

[XX]

Both Tocchet and Keller had mentioned that it was Keller's fault after the game.

Would explain why there are so many terrible breakdowns if they are actually coaching it that way because you have a guy like Goligoski basically completely redundant with Hjalmarsson on that play, covering nothing. Keller can backcheck harder there but Gustafsson already had a clear path to the net. Good teams collapse the D as much as possible, they don't send them scrambling around over pursuing because what happened tends to happen.

 

[TheLegend]

Yet Keller looked right at Gustafsson, went out to pick him up, turned with him and then completely let up. Doesn't take much to see all the open space and recognize that Gustaffsson is the biggest threat at that point and needed to be covered.

Bag on Goose all you want but Keller was the closest man there and was in the position to cover him.

 

[XX]

Bag on Goose all you want but Keller was the closest man there and was in the position to cover him.

You can't cover a guy that has a clear path to the net. The battle is already lost at that point. And Keller isn't going to get in front of Gustafsson, at best he will be at his side contesting a potential shot. Most likely result is a penalty drawn. If Hammer and Goose just calmly back up, they can slow the play down and wait for Keller and Fischer to break the play up from behind. They wouldn't leave someone open. They'd also have a much better chance at blocking a shot. If you pause at 4 seconds into the video, they are in complete control of this Blackhawk attack. At 6 seconds, they've given one forward a clear path to the net and are simply hoping the pass can't be made. That's poor defense, and it's poor coaching if it's being taught that way. Goose took himself out of the play and opened up the back door. Maybe he's doing exactly as coached and it's not the player, though that is still disturbing.

The Coyotes have given up an alarming number of high quality chances each game and have simply been bailed out by luck or amazing goaltending. This is a great example of why.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I've learned a lot from this little exchange...xx will of course believe I havent...but I have.

 

[XX]

I've learned a lot from this little exchange...xx will of course believe I havent...but I have.

You don't have to agree with me, I just don't see how this is good strategy

Under complete control:

Goligoski a bit lost:

Hjalmarsson never strays from his lane and just collapses back towards the net. He has to honor the Chicago player driving to the net. He plays this correctly, but a seam opens up in front of him because the other side is not played correctly (IMO). Goligoski has no reason to cross as he has two forwards coming back in support to handle the slot guy. You would always prefer to give up any shot - even a solid shot from the slot - with 2 D to block it than what actually ends up happening. You can't really cover a guy from behind; he can shield the puck, draw a penalty, and Keller v pretty much anyone with size is a huge mismatch. You can at best go for a deflection. Maybe everyone is correct and Hjalmarsson is marking Goose's man in the first frame, and Goligoski takes him literally to follow his assignment. Keller can always back check harder here, but it's still not a good situation even if he is stride for stride with Gustafsson. In an ideal handling of the situation, he shouldn't be his guy.

If both guys collapse, they have a chance to defend attacks from all 3 players. By doing what they did, they ended up not really defending anyone besides the guy in the slot. They unnecessarily opened up a really high percentage play in the process.

I'm pretty sure this is a set play by Chicago as well, because they cross up the zone entry player and the trailer on purpose, causing confusion and sucking Gologoski into a dumb pursuit. They fully intended to look for a pass to the trailer who at that point had a clear path to the net. The reverse angle in the replay really shows this well. Hjalmarsson actually isn't expecting a pass this has worked so well - he plays Toews slight wind up as a shot.

Keller 'missed his guy' but it shouldn't really have ever been his guy to begin with.

 

[Jakey53]

Both Tocchet and Keller had mentioned that it was Keller's fault after the game.

Keller was completely lost on that play, but Hammer motioned Gogo to stay on his side and if he did that play probably never happens. It looked like a set play and Hammer recognized it, but Gogo thought he knew better. As soon as Gogo got sucked in, Keller should have picked up, or tried to pickup Gustafsson. Like they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Jakey53]

Yet Keller looked right at Gustafsson, went out to pick him up, turned with him and then completely let up. Doesn't take much to see all the open space and recognize that Gustaffsson is the biggest threat at that point and needed to be covered.

Bag on Goose all you want but Keller was the closest man there and was in the position to cover him.

Back it up a few seconds. You see Hammer motion to Gogo to stay on his side. Hammer knew damn well what the Hawks were going to do. AFTER Gogo got sucked in Keller lost his man. IF you only look at the last two or three seconds, you blame Keller, but Gogo's missed assignment let that play develop.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

This is a fair example of what I've been talking about and I believe what they ARE being coached. It's an aggressive stand at our blue line and if that is how they intend to play the backchecking has to be stellar.

I don't see any reason to close gaps at this rate, against the talent in this league. It's similar to Demers attempting to close the gap on Skinner. Yes, Demers would have (most likely) been better off with physical contact, than a poke check, but this aggression pulls people out of controlled and safe position.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Keller is a 20 year old 2nd year player who is known for his offensive ability. He carried the team offensively for long stetches last year, and had a goal and an assist in the same game he committed his error.

Goose, Stepan, and Demers, are experienced vets who are supposed to be steady defensively and show the young'uns how to play. They make 16.45 mil combined.

Keller made a mistake there, but he's going to make mistakes like that. Hopefully he learns from it and it doesn't happen again. Him owning the mistake and telling Tocchet that he'll make up for it is a good sign. Also it's not a thing we see often from Keller in the first place.

How many times have we seen one of Stepan Demers or Goose make a monumental "Wtf are you doing play" without making up for it? They're not 2nd year players. They're supposed to be the ones Keller is learning from.

I'm not saying that we should ignore Keller's mistakes, but I'm saying it makes a little more sense to see that out of him due to his role and inexperience, and they still happen less frequently than from the veteran leadership group. It's a "rookie mistake". He's not a rookie, and should have done better, but he's still young and learning.

The veteran leaders are far from rookies. If their mental meltdowns happened rarely, or it looked like progress was being made, I wouldn't bitch about them. But those guys are playing eerily similarly to how they played at the beginning of last year. That's unacceptable. Keller's one mistake doesn't let them off the hook. We need to get better value from them if we're going to be successful.

Edit: for clarity, I shouldn't have used "veteran leadership group". I'm really talking about those 3. Oel is very close to being lumped in though, he needs to pick it up. Hammer Grabner and Richardson have been good, this rant wasn't directed at them. Also if it comes off overly hostile, all hostility was meant to be directed at the play of Stepan Demers and Goose, not posters.

 

[Jakey53]

This is a fair example of what I've been talking about and I believe what they ARE being coached. It's an aggressive stand at our blue line and if that is how they intend to play the backchecking has to be stellar.

I don't see any reason to close gaps at this rate, against the talent in this league. It's similar to Demers attempting to close the gap on Skinner. Yes, Demers would have (most likely) been better off with physical contact, than a poke check, but this aggression pulls people out of controlled and safe position.

I think you are right. Both Keller and RT said Keller was to blame for that goal. If they believe that, then it is coaching. On this play, Hammer was directing Gogo to stay on his side. Hammer knew damn well what the Hawks were going to do, and he probably knew damn well Gogo was going to follow his man. Thinking back, I have seen Demers, Gogo and KConn do this all season. I'm going to really watch close next game.