GDT: Game 59: Coyotes @ Maple Leafs - 5:00pm (AZ) - FSA, FSA+ - NHL Schedulers Really Suck Edition

[Canis Latrans]

I do not know why yotes have slipped other than their #1 goalie is down. Defensively still one of the better teams. Need more from Hall and Kessel. Hardly noticed them play. On the other side noticed Crouse who is having a good season and Keller.

While the replacement goaltending has not been at the same level as with Keumper, it's not been the primary cause of the long stretch of troubles. Defensively, we're still alright, but I think the offense dried up quite a bit during the stretch. With less play in the offensive zone, the team has had to defend more, and with more time in the dzone comes more goals allowed even if the defense is playing well. Of the past few games it looks more like we getting some offensive effort from more than 1 line per game, so I think it's also keeping the ice tilted away from our net. More players have stepped things up, but of course could still do so more and more consistently. I do think they're trending back to where they should be though. Hope it is enough to push to the play-offs.

 

[Canis Latrans]

You pretty much answered your own question. It's a common misconception about where the goaltender is considered to be, but it's almost identical to the offside rule. Skate contact with at least one of his skates in the crease (which includes the surrounding red line) is sufficient for the goaltender to be, by the rules, defined as being in his crease. The phrasing is also important. This is rule 69.3 verbatim:

69.3 Contact Inside the Goal Crease - If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

The bolded is the key phrasing (as opposed to the simpler, technically inaccurate, "contact in the crease"). The actual contact can be above ice that is wholly outside the goal crease, but if the goaltender has skate contact with the goal crease, he is considered to be "in his crease." Now, the question of whether Stepan initiated contact or not is subjective. I guess Toronto thought he did.

Thanks for the clarification on this. I was not aware that a goalie's skate in the crease indicated that the rest of the goalie is considered in the crease even if the goalie has leaned past the plane of the crease. I don't know that I like that though as it may encourage the goalie to lean out into an area where skaters have right to access as well. As a further aside, I don't like how there's the rulebook, and then there's no fan-accessible interpretation or clearly defined specifics for a lot of these situations. You have to just experience a lot of it to know how the league interprets stuff or be more directly involved in the sport, where presumably you're either taught it in some form of training or there is a non-publicly available rulebook. Furthermore, there are, of course, all the "unwritten" rules muddying the waters.

 

[Summer Rose]

Thanks for the clarification on this. I was not aware that a goalie's skate in the crease indicated that the rest of the goalie is considered in the crease even if the goalie has leaned past the plane of the crease. I don't know that I like that though as it may encourage the goalie to lean out into an area where skaters have right to access as well. As a further aside, I don't like how there's the rulebook, and then there's no fan-accessible interpretation or clearly defined specifics for a lot of these situations. You have to just experience a lot of it to know how the league interprets stuff or be more directly involved in the sport, where presumably you're either taught it in some form of training or there is a non-publicly available rulebook. Furthermore, there are, of course, all the "unwritten" rules muddying the waters.

I agree on some lack of transparency. The “rule book” that’s unavailable to the public is whatever information they share in seminars, training sessions, etc. and may not even be written down. My experience is that I officiated hockey for quite a long time myself so I can relate to the process, even though I was never in the NHL myself. These seminars and manuals (USA Hockey prints officiating manuals to supplement the official rules but I don’t think the NHL does) include a hell of a lot of supplemental information that fans don’t get to access. Instead, all we get is an announcement of “hey we’re cracking down on slashing this season.”

 

[Jamieh]

Ray Ferraro: you know what would help Arizona, if Kessel would break a sweat. Praise for Chick. Disappointed in Keller , Schmaltz, Hino. Says Team is so close if they could just get some scoring from these guys.

 

[Mosby]

While we're on the officials, the linesmen were annoying last night with the faceoffs. Just drop the puck and stop being a dick head.

 

[Summer Rose]

While we're on the officials, the linesmen were annoying last night with the faceoffs. Just drop the puck and stop being a dick head.

We’d happily “just drop the puck” if players would stop trying to cheat on face offs.

 

[TheLegend]

We’d happily “just drop the puck” if players would stop trying to cheat on face offs.

Exhibit #1 = Brad Richardson

 

[Fuhrious]

OEL is also coming back from a knee injury. With 3 on 3 you need mobility and OEL may not be back up to full speed yet.

not defending Tocchet..... just pointing out there are variables that don't always get taken into account.

Ya that was my thought as well, there were a few plays where OEL looked like he was on one leg

If he was nursing a lingering injury, RT certainly showed no inclination to take it easy on him over the course of the 60 minutes of regulation time. OEL played 23+ minutes, good for 3rd on the team behind Chychrun and Goligoski. He and Hammer were on the ice up until the OT extra man situation, at which point Chychrun/Goligoski came on with Kessel and Hall.

Your counterpoint would be far more believable if RT hadn't already established a long pattern of similar baffling choices.

 

[TheLegend]

If he was nursing a lingering injury, RT certainly showed no inclination to take it easy on him over the course of the 60 minutes of regulation time. OEL played 23+ minutes, good for 3rd on the team behind Chychrun and Goligoski. He and Hammer were on the ice up until the OT extra man situation, at which point Chychrun/Goligoski came on with Kessel and Hall.

Your counterpoint would be far more believable if RT hadn't already established a long pattern of similar baffling choices.

Where’s the part you missed that 3 on 3 hockey isn’t the same thing as when you’re in regulation?

I can think of much better things to be critical of the coaching staff for that this.

So what if OEL played 23 minutes... none of it was at 3 on 3. And he blew a tire once allowing for a breakaway chance on a PP.

Since we aren’t there on the bench we don’t know exactly what the situation is with any of the players.

 

[Fuhrious]

Where’s the part you missed that 3 on 3 hockey isn’t the same thing as when you’re in regulation?

This point would carry a hell of a lot more weight if RT wasn't constantly running the worst 3 on 3 hockey player in the league, Phil Kessel, out every opportunity he can. Clearly he's demonstrated repeatedly that he has no plan. Continue apologizing for him though, I guess.

 

[XX]

Kessel took a stupid penalty with 6 minutes to go in a tie game and was laughing about it. Starts OT. Dude is a clown and this team isn't anything close to a meritocracy.

 

[TheLegend]

This point would carry a hell of a lot more weight if RT wasn't constantly running the worst 3 on 3 hockey player in the league, Phil Kessel, out every opportunity he can. Clearly he's demonstrated repeatedly that he has no plan. Continue apologizing for him though, I guess.

Nobody’s apologizing.... as I stated I can see better reasons to criticize the coaching staff. But if you need that as an excuse to prove your point then it’s a weak one to begin with.

 

[TheLegend]

Kessel took a stupid penalty with 6 minutes to go in a tie game and was laughing about it. Starts OT. Dude is a clown and this team isn't anything close to a meritocracy.

IIRC the toe of his stick got caught in the other guy’s skate from him trying to poke the puck off his stick. It happens.

Buuuuut I suppose he could have just let the guy go.... went to the bench got another hot dog and enjoyed it. Then you could’ve used that as an excuse instead.

 

[Jakey53]

Who cares, calls go either way sometimes, is what it is.

It all evens out over the year.

 

[Grimes]

It all evens out over the year.

It's true, but this one stung because of how crucial every point is at this point of the season.

 

[Jakey53]

It's true, but this one stung because of how crucial every point is at this point of the season.

If the team would have gotten their head out of the a-- after the break we wouldn't even be talking about this.

 

[TheLegend]

If the team would have gotten their head out of the a-- after the break we wouldn't even be talking about this.

A very succinct statement right there.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

If the team would have gotten their head out of the a-- after the break we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Nah, we can't help ourselves here; we'll always talk about how much we suck.

Except when we don't.

 

[TheLegend]

Nah, we can't help ourselves here; we'll always talk about how much we suck.

Except when we don't.

No.... even when we don't.... we do.

 

[SniperHF]

No.... even when we don't.... we do.

Well we do kinda suck lately.

But I also freely concede that I am so afflicted with battered Coyotes fan syndrome that should the day come where we won the cup I'll wonder if I'm either gonna immediately wake up from such a dream or find out Chayka had some sort of trash can lid conspiracy to signal plays from the oppositions tablet (like Tocchet could adjust to being given opposition set plays.........) and that our title would be vacated or we'd lose 5 years of draft picks.

 

[TheLegend]

Well we do kinda suck lately.

But I also freely concede that I am so afflicted with battered Coyotes fan syndrome that should the day come where we won the cup I'll wonder if I'm either gonna immediately wake up from such a dream or find out Chayka had some sort of trash can lid conspiracy to signal plays from the oppositions tablet (like Tocchet could adjust to being given opposition set plays.........) and that our title would be vacated or we'd lose 5 years of draft picks.

We're all afflicted.... including myself. It's like the premature draft prospect testing issue. Just when you think this franchise has finally cleared itself from all the past crap something else happens.

However instead of teash cans they'd probably use Howler to signal with drum beats.

 

[Fuhrious]

Nobody’s apologizing.... as I stated I can see better reasons to criticize the coaching staff. But if you need that as an excuse to prove your point then it’s a weak one to begin with.

I mean, you are though. You're playing "devil's advocate" for something we've definitively observed dozens of times now. He doesnt know how to manage personnel or matchups in game. This has borne out time and time again. Why repeatedly provide him the out? What does that accomplish? Are you somehow satisfied seeing this team underperform, or at best win in spite of it's coach setting it up to fail?

 

[TheLegend]

I mean, you are though. You're playing "devil's advocate" for something we've definitively observed dozens of times now. He doesnt know how to manage personnel or matchups in game. This has borne out time and time again. Why repeatedly provide him the out? What does that accomplish? Are you somehow satisfied seeing this team underperform, or at best win in spite of it's coach setting it up to fail?

You created the "Fire Tocchet" thread for a reason.... right? You think Tocchet is THE problem here. So you've locked yourself into coming up with any thing you can to push that narrative.

I'm not providing him with an "out". I'm saying there are circumstances involved around decisions he makes that none of us are aware of, and in some instances, are completely ignoring out of convienience.

 

[XX]

This has borne out time and time again. Why repeatedly provide him the out?

The shtick you're dealing with is that one imagined possibility somehow completely invalidates an entire body of empirical evidence. It's an attempted gotcha that asks you to completely abandon logic and your observational skills. Don't waste your time.

 

[TheLegend]

The shtick you're dealing with is that one imagined possibility somehow completely invalidates an entire body of empirical evidence. It's an attempted gotcha that asks you to completely abandon logic and your observational skills. Don't waste your time.

Speaking of shticks......