GDT: Game 58 | Columbus vs Tampa Bay | 2/18 7:30 PM

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,346
14,025
Exurban Cbus
Must have missed that one, obviously. You got me there, hats off.

And you really think a post like this one near the end of the NYI game doesn't come off the same? You mean this isn't to point out that you're right and other people are wrong? (Not to mention another attempt to equate negativity with being realistic?)

Back to reality hopefully around here

Thanks loads for the kudos, but if you think I'm just loving playing gotcha... It's just damn tiring, for me anyway. We heard the same stuff at this time last season (in general, not going back and pulling posts) about how the team isn't good enough to make the playoffs, Florida or whomever had games in hand, I'm just calling it like I see it. Then the team makes the playoffs, and the story becomes gonna be another first round exit, Caps are too good, then nothing for the first couple games and finally, you see, there you go.

You know the bit about the broken clock. This isn't like that, but there are times is sure feels like it. Unless the team wins the Cup, there will always be an out for those who think it's not good enough.

I believe you that your opinions are legitimately held. I wouldn't want you to change them. I'm on record agreeing with you on some. But let's recognize it for what it is.

Rant off.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,179
28,650
I'm a little tired of the full court press.

How many times have we seen the Jackets hem in the opposition for a period and nonetheless be down 2-0? We can blame Foligno, or we can see that for every Jackets turnover the Lightning had several-fold more. The important difference is that the Lightning had D ready to defend and the Jackets did not. (Of course Vasi was the biggest difference of all. And last night was far from his best, he should be in the Hart trophy conversation in my opinion).

Perfection is not a game plan. We have seen from Trotz and Cooper a more patient approach. Bend don't break.

Without the D on the rush, we won't have so many 4 on 2 rushes, but how many goals do you really get from them anyways? 2 on 1s are much deadlier. I say keep the D pinching when the forwards are ready to reload, but on the rush keep two players ready to defend. As is we are ruining our goalies and ruining our chances.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,179
28,650
This game officially put me on the "Trade the Russians" side of the argument.

I think we all suspected we didn't have the depth to make a deep playoff run in the first place, but the two games in the last week against two elite teams, the Islanders and Tampa Bay showed it to us in spades. We just aren't going to compete over the long haul.

We're a GOOD team. We're going to win a bunch of games. We're not going to go toe-to-toe with the likes of the Lightning, Islanders, Maple Leafs and Capitals.

Get value while it's there.

I'm sitting here nodding along - we don't compare well with Tampa. And then you throw in all these other teams. The Capitals? Didn't we just destroy them last week? The Leafs? Didn't we beat them last game? The Islanders? They shut us out last game and now you say we have no chance "over the long haul" against them?

More to your point, is it worth keeping Panarin and Bob if our chances are poor against Tampa? Well if we have to be favored against Tampa to make it worth keeping them, then no, we should trade them. What gets me is that if every team applies that logic, to buy or sell based on their chances with the Bolts, then we should all just collectively cancel the playoffs and give the Lightning the Cup now. This despite the Bolts not having a better than 1/3 chance of winning the cup (this being hockey and not basketball, no one team has that good a chance). It makes me want to scream "grow some damn reproductive organs!" Thankfully, I think Jarmo has them.
 
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Monk

Registered User
Feb 5, 2008
7,495
5,392
And you really think a post like this one near the end of the NYI game doesn't come off the same? You mean this isn't to point out that you're right and other people are wrong? (Not to mention another attempt to equate negativity with being realistic?)



Thanks loads for the kudos, but if you think I'm just loving playing gotcha... It's just damn tiring, for me anyway. We heard the same stuff at this time last season (in general, not going back and pulling posts) about how the team isn't good enough to make the playoffs, Florida or whomever had games in hand, I'm just calling it like I see it. Then the team makes the playoffs, and the story becomes gonna be another first round exit, Caps are too good, then nothing for the first couple games and finally, you see, there you go.

You know the bit about the broken clock. This isn't like that, but there are times is sure feels like it. Unless the team wins the Cup, there will always be an out for those who think it's not good enough.

I believe you that your opinions are legitimately held. I wouldn't want you to change them. I'm on record agreeing with you on some. But let's recognize it for what it is.

Rant off.

I'm glad you did it, I opted not to. There are lots of quotable examples.

You stated the second part better than I would have. I was originally hoping for a Bus swoop-in but you handled it much more gracefully. Thanks.
 
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CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
42,076
24,004
And you really think a post like this one near the end of the NYI game doesn't come off the same? You mean this isn't to point out that you're right and other people are wrong? (Not to mention another attempt to equate negativity with being realistic?)



Thanks loads for the kudos, but if you think I'm just loving playing gotcha... It's just damn tiring, for me anyway. We heard the same stuff at this time last season (in general, not going back and pulling posts) about how the team isn't good enough to make the playoffs, Florida or whomever had games in hand, I'm just calling it like I see it. Then the team makes the playoffs, and the story becomes gonna be another first round exit, Caps are too good, then nothing for the first couple games and finally, you see, there you go.

You know the bit about the broken clock. This isn't like that, but there are times is sure feels like it. Unless the team wins the Cup, there will always be an out for those who think it's not good enough.

I believe you that your opinions are legitimately held. I wouldn't want you to change them. I'm on record agreeing with you on some. But let's recognize it for what it is.

Rant off.

Fair enough.
 
Nov 13, 2006
11,515
1,394
Ohio
I'm a little tired of the full court press.

How many times have we seen the Jackets hem in the opposition for a period and nonetheless be down 2-0? We can blame Foligno, or we can see that for every Jackets turnover the Lightning had several-fold more. The important difference is that the Lightning had D ready to defend and the Jackets did not. (Of course Vasi was the biggest difference of all. And last night was far from his best, he should be in the Hart trophy conversation in my opinion).

Perfection is not a game plan. We have seen from Trotz and Cooper a more patient approach. Bend don't break.

Without the D on the rush, we won't have so many 4 on 2 rushes, but how many goals do you really get from them anyways? 2 on 1s are much deadlier. I say keep the D pinching when the forwards are ready to reload, but on the rush keep two players ready to defend. As is we are ruining our goalies and ruining our chances.

To be clear, are you saying the problem against Tampa and the Islanders is Columbus's heavy forechecking coupled with the defensemen jumping up into the offense?
It's clear the Lightning mainly Kucherov turned mistakes into goals in the first period. I honestly thought it was caused by poor defensive play and one on one, Korpisalo sometimes need to make a great save. I didn't think Korpisalo broke down until the third with that weak goal and the Bolts powerplays after that.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,179
28,650
To be clear, are you saying the problem against Tampa and the Islanders is Columbus's heavy forechecking coupled with the defensemen jumping up into the offense?
It's clear the Lightning mainly Kucherov turned mistakes into goals in the first period. I honestly thought it was caused by poor defensive play and one on one, Korpisalo sometimes need to make a great save. I didn't think Korpisalo broke down until the third with that weak goal and the Bolts powerplays after that.

The heavy forecheck is not a problem at all. It's one of the Jackets strengths - this team forces a lot of turnovers. And D pinching in zone play is great as long as the forwards are reloading.

The problem is the odd-man rushes against that come from our D going up on 4 on 3 and 4 on 2 rushes. The first goal was scored after Jones went up on a 4-2 rush and after a turnover Kucherov gets a 2-1 the other way, which is a lot more dangerous. 2 on 1s in general are more dangerous than 4 on 2s, and in my opinion you would at least abstain from 4 man rushes when Kucherov is on the ice.
 
Nov 13, 2006
11,515
1,394
Ohio
The heavy forecheck is not a problem at all. It's one of the Jackets strengths - this team forces a lot of turnovers. And D pinching in zone play is great as long as the forwards are reloading.

The problem is the odd-man rushes against that come from our D going up on 4 on 3 and 4 on 2 rushes. The first goal was scored after Jones went up on a 4-2 rush and after a turnover Kucherov gets a 2-1 the other way, which is a lot more dangerous. 2 on 1s in general are more dangerous than 4 on 2s, and in my opinion you would at least abstain from 4 man rushes when Kucherov is on the ice.

On the first goal I thought Werenski got caught flatfooted. I can't remember the specific defensive lapse on the 2nd one, other than a mistake and a goal
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,179
28,650
On the first goal I thought Werenski got caught flatfooted. I can't remember the specific defensive lapse on the 2nd one, other than a mistake and a goal

In both cases Jones jumped up on the rush, and the Bolts scored before he got back in place.

First one: Jones made it a 4 v 2, Dubois turns it over at the blueline, Jones maybe underestimated Kucherov on the backcheck there, Jones didn't charge hard back enough. I don't think Werenski did anything wrong, or right there.

Second one: I think this is the one you are thinking of. Jones jumps up to make a 4 v 3, Foligno turns it over, then Kucherov walks Werenski on a 1 v 1. Kucherov had the trailer though, it was about to be a 2 v 1, and Werenski got caught expecting it to be played like a 2 v 1.

-- Now before I'm finished posting this I'm watching Domi's goal in the first, where both Savard and Werenski are caught on the rush. Robinson the only man back. :ha:
 

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