Pre-Game Talk: Game 5: Hawks vs Blues - 7:30 PM on WGN? - Kahun no more virgin edition

[AmericanDream]

Isn’t a center the most natural player positionally to crash the net, and playmakers go to the outside?

Thornton is good at draws, so that’s probably a factor in him being a center. But doesn’t Pavelski also fill the center role sometimes when he’s with Thornton?

it depends on the player. Jumbo Joe hardly crashes the net. A player I would like Schmaltz to emulate a bit more would be Nicklas Backstrom who at times will take it pretty strong to the net, but Oshie does a lot of the heavy work around the goal now too, but keeps his elite playmaking and vision as well.

Pavelski does play center as well, typically when Jumbo goes down, but he isn't crashing the net much either.

Plenty of wingers are the guys crashing the net, we saw it for years with Saad..Kreider does it too. Tom Wilson, bingo he does it...same with Oshie...Zach Parise is probably one of the best players that I have seen with generating chances from going to the net, and all these guys are wingers. No clear cut answer here, but Toews wasn't crashing the net much the past 2 years and now he is and success is coming from it. Kopitar and Bergeron, two other centers are more down low players and less crash the net types...I would like Schmaltz to develop more of a down low game and less perimeter in time...

 

[Crow]

Too soon to mean much yet, but my 3 player disappointments in this young season would be:
1/ Saad - as discussed
2/ Kampf - expected more after a decent rookie season. He just doesn't seem to be able to take the next step in his development
3/ Schmaltz - skates miles with little to show for it mainly because he refuses to go to the blue paint. It's frustrating to watch that untapped potential

Ruuta seems to be playing hurt so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Dude schmaltz might be somewhat disappointing so far, but he is still a 52 point player and young. I think you need to manage your expectations better, honestly.

He shouldn’t make any list like this.

 

[BK]

Schmaltz has two issues; he over passes and he struggles at the dot. The BS about him being bad in the d zone is just not true. 50 constantly says it and people have jumped on the inccorrect idea.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Schmaltz has two issues; he over passes and he struggles at the dot. The BS about him being bad in the d zone is just not true. 50 constantly says it and people have jumped on the inccorrect idea.

Ya, I was surprised to hear this d-zone stuff too.

Like I said, haven’t been able to watch a game yet to see for myself. So I appreciate you guys chiming in on that.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

it depends on the player. Jumbo Joe hardly crashes the net. A player I would like Schmaltz to emulate a bit more would be Nicklas Backstrom who at times will take it pretty strong to the net, but Oshie does a lot of the heavy work around the goal now too, but keeps his elite playmaking and vision as well.

Pavelski does play center as well, typically when Jumbo goes down, but he isn't crashing the net much either.

Plenty of wingers are the guys crashing the net, we saw it for years with Saad..Kreider does it too. Tom Wilson, bingo he does it...same with Oshie...Zach Parise is probably one of the best players that I have seen with generating chances from going to the net, and all these guys are wingers. No clear cut answer here, but Toews wasn't crashing the net much the past 2 years and now he is and success is coming from it. Kopitar and Bergeron, two other centers are more down low players and less crash the net types...I would like Schmaltz to develop more of a down low game and less perimeter in time...

If Schmaltz stays who he is (shot tendency, going to the net tendency, and faceoff ability) do you think he’s better on Kane’s LW with a big center, or do you think he’s better as Kane’s center?

 

[Kurtosis]

Schmaltz has two issues; he over passes and he struggles at the dot. The BS about him being bad in the d zone is just not true. 50 constantly says it and people have jumped on the inccorrect idea.

His hesitation to shoot at times is maddening.

Why people would jump on anything 50 says is truly puzzling. Actually it’s also maddening. I’m not sure which one is more maddening, Schmaltz’s lack of shooting or people taking anything fiddy says as gospel.

 

[AmericanDream]

If Schmaltz stays who he is (shot tendency, going to the net tendency, and faceoff ability) do you think he’s better on Kane’s LW with a big center, or do you think he’s better as Kane’s center?

I wouldn't move him at all. He can become an elite two way center, he has elite hands, vision and wheels...his puck retrieval is only getting better and better..needs to work on getting stronger physically, getting better at face offs, and taking more shots..all of those areas can be pretty easily worked on, but count me in the camp of keeping him at center UNLESS we somehow get another legit #2C and can then move him on the wing with Toews...outside of that, not moving him period.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Interesting you mentioned Schmaltz. I was listening to the Rink’s new podcast (Gatekeeper and the HF’s favorite punching-bag, JJ), and they railed on Schmaltz’ play so far this season.

Basically said he does nothing that you need out of a 2C, and there’s no way he’s showing that he’s worth a 6 year-$36 million deal.

They said he doesn’t go to the net, like you said, and that he loafs on defense like Kane does.

They raised some other issues with him, including face-offs in the offensive zone, but I don’t remember all off the top of my head.

I can go back and find out their gripes with Schmaltz, if people are interested in that.

Point is, they see the same thing you’re seeing.

Your first mistake was listening to JJ on a podcast.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

You're first mistake was listening to JJ on a podcast.

Haha I know! Gate runs the show on that podcast though, and JJ just kind of chimes in.

 

[AmericanDream]

Haha I know! Gate runs the show on that podcast though, and JJ just kind of chimes in.

if you just look at it this way, Schmaltz is tied for 20th overall for ALL players listed as a C in scoring right now...20th overall...that isn't barely #2C level?? wtf?? 4 games in, and he has 4 assists, got it, but here is what else is interesting, he is playing over 20 minutes a night, only a handful of centers are playing more minutes than him and most of them are minus players...Schmaltz is a plus 1 averaging over 20 minutes a night...if he was a train wreck defensively, we would be seeing a different picture here. His faceoff % is brutal, but just take a look at Kuznetsov, Barzal and Wild Bill Karlsson...all 3 of them struggle as well yet I don't really hear snot about it. He has things to work on no doubt, but those painting this bleak picture are completely off base right now, and oh yeah by the way, he is only 22 years old!
also - Schmaltz only has 5 shots I believe, I can only see 2 centers lower than him in shots in the top 30 in scoring, Barzal and Schenn...Barzal at only 2 shots, wtf??? if this kid (Schmaltz)starts shooting more like many others who are well over 15 shots, he will be top 10 points wise this year.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

if you just look at it this way, Schmaltz is tied for 20th overall for ALL players listed as a C in scoring right now...20th overall...that isn't barely #2C level?? wtf?? 4 games in, and he has 4 assists, got it, but here is what else is interesting, he is playing over 20 minutes a night, only a handful of centers are playing more minutes than him and most of them are minus players...Schmaltz is a plus 1 averaging over 20 minutes a night...if he was a train wreck defensively, we would be seeing a different picture here. His faceoff % is brutal, but just take a look at Kuznetsov, Barzal and Wild Bill Karlsson...all 3 of them struggle as well yet I don't really hear snot about it. He has things to work on no doubt, but those painting this bleak picture are completely off base right now, and oh yeah by the way, he is only 22 years old!

Ya, I hear you.

I just worry about these players playing out of position from where they will be when this team is Cup competitive again.

I want the young kids to work mastering the role they will play when this team is ready to go for another Cup. Will Schmaltz be Kane’s center then? If so, absolutely keep him there. Or will Duchene be signed for that role? If so, move Schmaltz to LW now, the role he’d play in that scenario.

DeBrincat on Toews’ wing? I’m confident that’s a long term thing, and will still be a thing when this team is Cup competitive again.

Joki in a prime role? Again, confident that will be a thing.

I just get worried about Schmaltz.

 

[AmericanDream]

Ya, I hear you.

I just worry about these players playing out of position from where they will be when this team is Cup competitive again.

I want the young kids to work mastering the role they will play when this team is ready to go for another Cup. Will Schmaltz be Kane’s center then? If so, absolutely keep him there. Or will Duchene be signed for that role? If so, move Schmaltz to LW now, the role he’d play in that scenario.

DeBrincat on Toews’ wing? I’m confident that’s a long term thing, and will still be a thing when this team is Cup competitive again.

Joki in a prime role? Again, confident that will be a thing.

I just get worried about Schmaltz.

don't be, I have been stalking this guy since his Chicago Mission days Herbert from Family Guy style lol!!! I kid...I kid...

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Ya, I hear you.

I just worry about these players playing out of position from where they will be when this team is Cup competitive again.

I want the young kids to work mastering the role they will play when this team is ready to go for another Cup. Will Schmaltz be Kane’s center then? If so, absolutely keep him there. Or will Duchene be signed for that role? If so, move Schmaltz to LW now, the role he’d play in that scenario.

DeBrincat on Toews’ wing? I’m confident that’s a long term thing, and will still be a thing when this team is Cup competitive again.

Joki in a prime role? Again, confident that will be a thing.

I just get worried about Schmaltz.

There's no reason to worry about Schmaltz. Worst case scenario he doesn't progress at all from where he was last year and we move him to wing and he's still a very good top 6 winger.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

There's no reason to worry about Schmaltz. Worst case scenario he doesn't progress at all from where he was last year and we move him to wing and he's still a very good top 6 winger.

Should management be looking at adding a center for Kane in the offseason, or a wing?

Basically is Duchene or Stone the right add? Assuming you move Saad and/or Anisimov.

 

[featherhawk]

schmaltz is a decent C, not great but decent, he is underrated for his 200 ft game, he needs to be much better on the draws though.

I think he would be better served as a winger though unless he does not centre Kane.

and for christ sake SHOOT, your shot is better than most use it already

 

[featherhawk]

Should management be looking at adding a center for Kane in the offseason, or a wing?

Basically is Duchene or Stone the right add? Assuming you move Saad and/or Anisimov.

management should not need to look to make a deal for a C for kane, look on your roster, look in Rockford a C for Kane is available for free.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

management should not need to look to make a deal for a C for kane, look on your roster, look in Rockford a C for Kane is available for free.

True, I could still see them weighing Duchene vs. Stone this offseason though. They’ll have a bit of money to spend, but I don’t think they’ll spend Panarin money.

 

[BobbyJet]

almost all of these points were complained about for Joe Thornton for years...these types of players are polarizing, but they play a different style of game that people love to pick a part. when they are on, they are near unstoppable, but when their line isn't producing, they take a lot of ****.

I do not agree 1 ounce with the defensive play of Schmaltz, he backchecks like a MFer, maybe a few times he gets caught looking to head up the ice early, but his defensive play has been more than fine for me.

He does not nor will go to the net, and nor do I want him too, that isn't his style and never has been lol...you can't turn players into grinders when they are playmakers. I don't want him getting hacked a part in there, it is not his game.

He needs to shoot a heck of a lot more, needs to work on his face offs as well...those are legit gripes...outside of that, he has 4 points in 4 games, can he do more? absolutely, but is he a top 3 problem right now? no chance.

And I am not saying this against you Roar, you are just the messenger so that is 100% understood.

I don't want him crashing goalies and I don't think the other critics do either. And I don't care either if he nevers puts a skate in the crease.... just get the f***ing puck there to make things happen.

 

[AmericanDream]

I don't want him crashing goalies and I don't think the other critics do either. And I don't care either if he nevers puts a skate in the crease.... just get the ****ing puck there to make things happen.

lol, I hear you...not arguing that

 

[BobbyJet]

Dude schmaltz might be somewhat disappointing so far, but he is still a 52 point player and young. I think you need to manage your expectations better, honestly.

He shouldn’t make any list like this.

Like I said, it is the untapped potential of Schmaltz that is frustrating. If I were Q, I'd be giving him some tough love all the while trying to hammer home to him how good he can be in this league.

On another note:
This Fortin experiment caught everyone by surprise - as much as I like the opportunity given to Fortin, I think Q may be rushing him after a single NHL game. At this point in time I think re-uniting AA with 8/88 would be a wise move, and tbh that's what I thought Q would do if Saad continued to struggle.

 

[AmericanDream]

Should management be looking at adding a center for Kane in the offseason, or a wing?

Basically is Duchene or Stone the right add? Assuming you move Saad and/or Anisimov.

they will be doing both - signing Panarin and waiting on my boy Jake Wise to take the reigns of #2C!!!

 

[Kevin Musto]

they will be doing both - signing Panarin and waiting on my boy Jake Wise to take the reigns of #2C!!!

Praise Wise!

 

[AmericanDream]

Praise Wise!

Praise him indeed!

 

[hawksfan50]

You mean the great Jake Wise who last night got zero points and zero shots on goal in the BU loss? He is our saviour at C?Methinks you hype him too much...

Look the best Centers go early in the draft now..teams are not stupid..Great Centre talent is rare..so you gotta get a very high first rounder to pluck off the best Centers of each draft before some other team grabs them...Hoping 3rd rounders are super stars ins not realistic..

 

[migi]

You mean the great Jake Wise who last night got zero points and zero shots on goal in the BU loss? He is our saviour at C?Methinks you hype him too much...

Look the best Centers go early in the draft now..teams are not stupid..Great Centre talent is rare..so you gotta get a very high first rounder to pluck off the best Centers of each draft before some other team grabs them...Hoping 3rd rounders are super stars ins not realistic..

You forgot the word smurf.