GDT: Game 5: Hawks vs Blues - 7:30 CT on NBCSCH - Keiths 1000th Game

[piteus]

Cat-Toews-Schmaltz would be absolutely filthy.

I have no problem loading the Toews line and making it our most dangerous and complete. It was something I *****ed about all offseason.

Kane is capable of running a one-man show with third-liners, like you said, and can still put up first line production. That’s one of the great and rare things about Kane, he’s similar to Crosby in that way.

We won Cups by loading the Toews line, and letting Kane do his own thing while his linemates basically try not to get in his way.

And when the Toews line stopped working, lame would bump up and add a scoring punch.

The formula worked before.

That's something to think about next year. Unfortunately, with Schmaltz on the first line and Anisimov centering Kane and Kahun ... our third line will be a mess. Saad - Kruger - Fortin? Yuck. The Hawks really need to sign a top six center or sniper through free agency next year.

 

[BobbyJet]

Saad-Kampf-Fortin ... should do okay

or

Saad-Hayden-Fortin would be interesting.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

That's something to think about next year. Unfortunately, with Schmaltz on the first line and Anisimov centering Kane and Kahun ... our third line will be a mess. Saad - Kruger - Fortin? Yuck. The Hawks really need to sign a top six center or sniper through free agency next year.

What are we getting out of that third line now that would be sorely missed?

Keep Kruger on the fourth, let Kampf and Hayden try their hands at centering the third line, put Fortin on the wing or call up Sikura.

DeBrincat-Toews-Schmaltz
Kahun-Anisimov-Kane
Saad-Kampf/Hayden-Fortin/Sikura
Kruger line

 

[Hawkaholic]

Cat-Toews-Schmaltz would be absolutely filthy.

I have no problem loading the Toews line and making it our most dangerous and complete. It was something I *****ed about all offseason.

Kane is capable of running a one-man show with third-liners, like you said, and can still put up first line production. That’s one of the great and rare things about Kane, he’s similar to Crosby in that way.

We won Cups by loading the Toews line, and letting Kane do his own thing while his linemates basically try not to get in his way.

And when the Toews line stopped working, lame would bump up and add a scoring punch.

The formula worked before.

I'm not entirely sure if Kane is able to run a one man show nowadays by himself (aka/3rd and 4th liners). He isn't in his prime any longer, and doesn't have the depth on his team to put him in situations that could take advantage of other teams. (playing against weak competition)

We won Cups by having amazing depth, not loading up the 1st line and saddling Kane with garbage. Kane palyed with whom back in the day? Sharp/Handzus, Richards/Versteeg, Toews/Buff..where exactly is the garbage outside of Handzus? He always had a really good winger or centre with him.

Kane has scored 5 pts at 5 on 5 ES this year, and Schmaltz has been in on 4 of those. He may actually need a Schmaltz this year, 5 on 5 ES. If you put Anisimov with him, not only is our 3rd line now a 4th line, it weakens Kanes line by quite a bit.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I'm not entirely sure if kane is able to run a one man show nowadays by himself (aka/3rd and 4th liners). He isn't in his prime any longer, and doesn't have the depth on his team to put him in situations that could take advantage of other teams. (playing against weak competition)

We won Cups by having amazing depth, not loading up the 1st line and saddling Kane with garbage. Kane palyed with whom back in the day? Sharp/Handzus, Richards/Versteeg, Toews/Buff..where exactly is the garbage outside of Handzus? He always had a really good winger or centre with him.

Kane has scored 5 pts at 5 on 5 ES this year, and Schmaltz has been in on 4 of those. He may actually need a Schmaltz this year, 5 on 5 ES. If you put Anisimov with him, not only is our 3rd line now a 4th line, it weakens Kanes line by quite a bit.

Putting Kane with garbage allowed the good depth to play elsewhere in the lineup, but ya that 4th lines were stronger.

If Saad plays to 75% of his ability, that third line is at least an average third line.

Also, Kane scores two great goals this year with Anisimov parked in front of the goalie’s face, that’s something Anisimov provides that Schmaltz can’t. So while Anisimov isn’t the playmaker Schmaltz is, he does bring something else to the table that helps Kane.

You do make a solid point on Kane aging though, and that he may no longer be able to drag around corpses and still put up 80+ points. That is something to consider moving forward, but I don’t think he’s declining yet.

 

[BobbyJet]

Kahun is an entirely different player from Schmaltz but he has his own strengths.
We won't know if Kane/Kahun have chemistry until it is tried.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Kahun is an entirely different player from Schmaltz but he has his own strengths.
We won't know if Kane/Kahun have chemistry until it is tried.

We do know Schmaltz and Toews have chemistry, and that DeBrincat and Toews have chemistry though.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Putting Kane with garbage allowed the good depth to play elsewhere in the lineup, but ya that 4th lines were stronger.

If Saad plays to 75% of his ability, that third line is at least an average third line.

Also, Kane scores two great goals this year with Anisimov parked in front of the goalie’s face, that’s something Anisimov provides that Schmaltz can’t. So while Anisimov isn’t the playmaker Schmaltz is, he does bring something else to the table that helps Kane.

You do make a solid point on Kane aging though, and that he may no longer be able to drag around corpses and still put up 80+ points. That is something to consider moving forward, but I don’t think he’s declining yet.

But again, Kane didn't play with garbage at both positions. He always had a really good player with him. Whether it was Sharp, Toews, good Saad, Richards, etc. He has always had a decent top 6 option playing with him.

But Saad isn't playing to 75% of his ability right now, so you can't even think about it until he is back to the way he should be playing.

Both of those goals kane scored with Anisimov parked out front were 6 on 5 goals, and Schmaltz helped him dig the puck up on both to help set the play up. I think Kane is still great, I just don't think he will be able to prop a whole line up by himself in todays NHL.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

But again, Kane didn't play with garbage at both positions. He always had a really good player with him. Whether it was Sharp, Toews, good Saad, Richards, etc. He has always had a decent top 6 option playing with him.

But Saad isn't playing to 75% of his ability right now, so you can't even think about it until he is back to the way he should be playing.

Both of those goals kane scored with Anisimov parked out front were 6 on 5 goals, and Schmaltz helped him dig the puck up on both to help set the play up. I think Kane is still great, I just don't think he will be able to prop a whole line up by himself in todays NHL.

Good points, but Richards wasn’t great when he was here. Versteeg wasn’t great. He played with those two and was on track to win MVP.

Handzus wasn’t great, neither was Shaw. Bickell? Bolland? Both had their moments, but not great.

Schmaltz is probably the most talented consistent guy Kane has had outside of Toews, Sharp, and Panarin.

Again, if he’s aging and needs the support I see your point.

 

[migi]

Kane needs support from linemates with below average powerplay to be over PPG player in this league. Without support with our current powerplay I see him 70 point guy. Max.

And while he is 70 point guy which is very good with lesser talent, we want to see Kane having fun out there. He is not going to have fun with bad players.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Kane needs support from linemates with below average powerplay to be over PPG player in this league. Without support with our current powerplay I see him 70 point guy. Max.

And while he is 70 point guy which is very good with lesser talent, we want to see Kane having fun out there. He is not going to have fun with bad players.

Isn’t part of that fun carrying the puck 90% of the time and setting up guys for one-timers?

 

[migi]

Isn’t part of that fun carrying the puck 90% of the time and setting up guys for one-timers?

I’d say he has more fun when there is a guy like Panarin who scores from that setup.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I’d say he has more fun when there is a guy like Panarin who scores from that setup.

Haha obviously, but that’s part of the reason he had so much fun with Panarin. They’d go back and forth trying to set up onetimers.

That’s not a thing with Schmaltz.

 

[migi]

Haha obviously, but that’s part of the reason he had so much fun with Panarin. They’d go back and forth trying to set up onetimers.

That’s not a thing with Schmaltz.

Yeap.

Hopefully Schmaltz takes Kane’s route and wants to be better in everything. If and when he does, he makes the team so much better.

Btw, we know on Wednesday if Crow is going to play on Thursday.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Yeap.

Hopefully Schmaltz takes Kane’s route and wants to be better in everything. If and when he does, he makes the team so much better.

Btw, we know on Wednesday if Crow is going to play on Thursday.

Agree, I’m just not sure Schmaltz’s tendencies and play style elevate Kane. This has nothing to do with talent, Schmaltz is absolutely talented.

Good Crow news will be nice.

 

[piteus]

I thought Crow was playing on the 18th?

 

[migi]

I thought Crow was playing on the 18th?

Well the next game is on 18th?

Q said today they know on Wednesday.

 

[migi]

Agree, I’m just not sure Schmaltz’s tendencies and play style elevate Kane. This has nothing to do with talent, Schmaltz is absolutely talented.

Good Crow news will be nice.

I agree with you completely even though people here are going to criticize us haha.

Imo Schmaltz has been dissappointing so far but hey, it’s five games. We havent lost in regulation.

I just want Schmaltz to play C, not winger. As 3rd line center? Only if there is enough talent there which we dont currently have. I truly hope Kane and Schmaltz evaluate their game together and go from there to be better. Schmaltz just needs to shoot. Shoot shoot shoot.

Or get me some Panarin.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I agree with you completely even though people here are going to criticize us haha.

Imo Schmaltz has been dissappointing so far but hey, it’s five games. We havent lost in regulation.

I just want Schmaltz to play C, not winger. As 3rd line center? Only if there is enough talent there which we dont currently have. I truly hope Kane and Schmaltz evaluate their game together and go from there to be better. Schmaltz just needs to shoot. Shoot shoot shoot.

Or get me some Panarin.

So a Schmaltz re-signing is going to be a big justification for not chasing Panarin. The guys at the front office need to figure it out this year.

Because I remember Panarin elevating Kane to 106 and 89 points. Schmaltz elevated him to 76 (his worst PPG output since 11-12), and by your point earlier, Kane can hit 70 playing with scrubs.

If Schmaltz can stay at center, he provides more value than a typical 50-60 point winger. That said, Panarin provides much more value than a typical winger, and is the one guy we’ve seen drive Kane to an even higher level.

 

[lakai17]

And yes, Hawks do need a better 3rd wheel for that line. Fortin isn't it, and Saad doesn't appear to be it either. Maybe Hayden is it? Maybe an outside source is it?

Removing Schmaltz just creates a bigger hole, because now you are saddling another anchor to Kane.

Hayden would be interesting. ..has drive, could be good net presence with his style of play.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Good points, but Richards wasn’t great when he was here. Versteeg wasn’t great. He played with those two and was on track to win MVP.

Handzus wasn’t great, neither was Shaw. Bickell? Bolland? Both had their moments, but not great.

Schmaltz is probably the most talented consistent guy Kane has had outside of Toews, Sharp, and Panarin.

Again, if he’s aging and needs the support I see your point.

Richards was the best C Kane had since Sharp in 2010. He was an adequate 2/3guy, better than current Anisimov. And Versteeg was a 45pt player at the time (and the next yr in CAR).

Shaw, and Bickell were typically 3rd wheels on his line. Shaw played C, with Saad on his left. I don't recall Bickell or Bollandplaying a whole lot with Kane in our Cup years.

I do think Kane needs a really talented player to be the best player he can be. He will be a 75pt guy without one, but could be a 90+pt guy with some real talent. Schmaltz is the best bet for him unless you want to load up the 1st line and be a one line team again.

 

[piteus]

Richards was the best C Kane had since Sharp in 2010. He was an adequate 2/3guy, better than current Anisimov. And Versteeg was a 45pt player at the time (and the next yr in CAR).

Shaw, and Bickell were typically 3rd wheels on his line. Shaw played C, with Saad on his left. I don't recall Bickell or Bollandplaying a whole lot with Kane in our Cup years.

I do think Kane needs a really talented player to be the best player he can be. He will be a 75pt guy without one, but could be a 90+pt guy with some real talent. Schmaltz is the best bet for him unless you want to load up the 1st line and be a one line team again.

Kane likes to hold the puck. Here's what he needs:

1. A player willing to get in front of the net and corners.
2. A player with a decent shot who doesn't always need the puck.
3. Two wingers willing to defend if Kane gets caught on the other end.

As long as Kane's linemates are competent, he can still hold his own ... especially in today's less physical game.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Richards was the best C Kane had since Sharp in 2010. He was an adequate 2/3guy, better than current Anisimov. And Versteeg was a 45pt player at the time (and the next yr in CAR).

Shaw, and Bickell were typically 3rd wheels on his line. Shaw played C, with Saad on his left. I don't recall Bickell or Bollandplaying a whole lot with Kane in our Cup years.

I do think Kane needs a really talented player to be the best player he can be. He will be a 75pt guy without one, but could be a 90+pt guy with some real talent. Schmaltz is the best bet for him unless you want to load up the 1st line and be a one line team again.

Schmaltz is better than Richards was when he was here, and is better than 45 point Versteeg. Still, even with that, Kane put up just 76 points last year.

By your measure, Schmaltz isn’t pushing Kane to a level beyond what he’d be with third liners.

That’s definitely not because Schmaltz lacks talent, it’s just a matter of his game not fitting perfectly with Kane’s. I think Schmaltz may have a brighter future by not playing with Kane, and getting trapped in the habit of only looking for Kane.

@Rolo lays out what Kane needs above.

Edit: sorry @piteus, I gave your credit to Rolo.

 

[BK]

Kane likes to hold the puck. Here's what he needs:

1. A player willing to get in front of the net and corners.
2. A player with a decent shot who doesn't always need the puck.
3. Two wingers willing to defend if Kane gets caught on the other end.

As long as Kane's linemates are competent, he can still hold his own ... especially in today's less physical game.

Kane also performs really well when he is given more space to operate, this is what Schmaltz creates. Schmaltz goes to the net. He doesn't camp there like AA but saying he does not go to the net is not accurate.

 

[piteus]

Kane also performs really well when he is given more space to operate, this is what Schmaltz creates. Schmaltz goes to the net. He doesn't camp there like AA but saying he does not go to the net is not accurate.

Does Schmaltz really create that much space for Kane? If teams know Schmaltz won't look to shoot, he doesn't create much space for Kane when he doesn't have the puck.

Kane will go to the net ... but does so with the puck, on the rush, or off the rebound. Anisimov doesn't really want the puck on the perimeter. He actually is a good pairing for Kane. He'll take the punishment in front of the net as Kane moves the puck closer.

Both Schmaltz and Kane like to hold the puck. If they had a Cam Neely it would be perfect ... but the Hawks have no power forwards who can snipe. Maybe we should give Hayden a chance.