GDT: Game 5: Hawks vs Blues - 7:30 CT on NBCSCH - Keiths 1000th Game

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Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
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Ward has done what you want of vet #2

Outside of game vs Leafs he has been fine and made some important saves. Sure he would like a few of the goals back but overall I have been happy with Ward

Going 3-0-2 without Crawford to start year and with Ward in net is positive

Ward is giving Hawks key saves at key moments something team lacked last season when all the goalies seemed to give up nothing but back breaking Huet like goals at worst times or put team in holes early they couldn't dig out of
 

AmericanDream

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Right, and he’s not going to with Kane either. Despite how many times people keep hoping for it and saying it.

Isn’t it his playmaking that is now being hurt though since he’s simply ignoring other guys any only looking for Kane?

I thought that was the argument.

Also, Kane needs shooters who will rifle one when the defense starts focusing on Kane.
Schmaltz has looked at Kane as first and second options on that line, but maybe he felt Saad just wasnt aggressive enough or deserving enough, I dunno...I liked what Fortin brought to the line but would really like to see a guy like Hayden on their line and see what happens. Kane is still the best offensive weapon we have, I have no problems if he gets the puck more than anyone else, but Schmaltz is an amazing distributor he needs to find others to take some pressure off of Kane as well...so that is a valid argument that Schmaltz needs to adjust.
 

RememberTheRoar

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Schmaltz has looked at Kane as first and second options on that line, but maybe he felt Saad just wasnt aggressive enough or deserving enough, I dunno...I liked what Fortin brought to the line but would really like to see a guy like Hayden on their line and see what happens. Kane is still the best offensive weapon we have, I have no problems if he gets the puck more than anyone else, but Schmaltz is an amazing distributor he needs to find others to take some pressure off of Kane as well...so that is a valid argument that Schmaltz needs to adjust.

Ya, I have no problem with everything revolving around Kane, it naturally happens because he’s such a dominant player.

Kane needs an outlet though when the defense takes away his shooting lanes. Panarin was that for him, and averaged 200 shots his two seasons with Kane.

Schmaltz put up 118 shots last year, 6 in 5 games this year, an even lower rate. Schmaltz is putting up shots for Kane at roughly the same low rate Anisimov did for Kane and Panarin.

Panarin worked with Kane because he was a playmaker and a shooter, not just a playmaker. So now we need to find a guy who can both be a netfront presence, and will put up about 200 shots. Schmaltz won’t provide either of those, so we need someone who will.

Hayden will give us netfront presence, but will he shoot 200 times? Saad should’ve been that guy, but I don’t know what’s wrong with him. But I also wonder whether it’s possible to be a net guy while also being available to take 200 shots and capitalize on one-timers.

This is why people viewed DeBrincat as a potential perfect wing for Kane, he shoots can be a playmaker. That allows the center to be just a simple net crasher. DeBrincat is now locked in with Toews though.
 
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sugoi88

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Can Toews put Saad in touch with his trainers? Whatever Toews did, Saad needs to follow his exact regimen. Toews is a monster on the puck again. Don't care about the goals ... this is the Toews I'm used to. Just dominating opponents on both ends of the ice. His quickness is off the charts again.
Was at the game and cannot believe how much better Toews is skating/playing this season than from previous 3. If he could he would have skated through the boards he was pumped. He was fast and focused. So encouraging. I know most on here wanted the Hawks to tank this season for Hughes but I'm not on that train. If Toews (especially Toews)/Kane/Keith (who had a great game) play like they are interested in winning Hawks should not waste the season. See how CC does when he comes back. See where they are at playoff time and if they are in a good position they should be buyers if needed.
Was also impressed with Fortin. He skated well and confident. Didn't force too much of anything. Not sure if he should still play on 2nd but he should be given more games.
Good atmosphere at the UC. The place was packed. Go Hawks!
 

BobbyJet

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Ya, I have no problem with everything revolving around Kane, it naturally happens because he’s such a dominant player.

Kane needs an outlet though when the defense takes away his shooting lanes. Panarin was that for him, and averaged 200 shots his two seasons with Kane.

Schmaltz put up 118 shots last year, 6 in 5 games this year, an even lower rate. Schmaltz is putting up shots for Kane at roughly the same low rate Anisimov did for Kane and Panarin.

Panarin worked with Kane because he was a playmaker and a shooter, not just a playmaker. So now we need to find a guy who can both be a netfront presence, and will put up about 200 shots. Schmaltz won’t provide either of those, so we need someone who will.

Hayden will give us netfront presence, but will he shoot 200 times? Saad should’ve been that guy, but I don’t know what’s wrong with him. But I also wonder whether it’s possible to be a net guy while also being available to take 200 shots and capitalize on one-timers.

This is why people viewed DeBrincat as a potential perfect wing for Kane, he shoots can be a playmaker. That allows the center to be just a simple net crasher. DeBrincat is now locked in with Toews though.

I love Hayden's north/south game but I also worry that his below average foot speed will not fare well on Kaner's line. For now, I think he is better off playing on the 3rd line.
 
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RememberTheRoar

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I love Hayden's north/south game but I also worry that his below average foot speed will not fare well on Kaner's line. For now, I think he is better off playing on the 3rd line.

Ya, I don’t think Hayden alone solves the lack of playmaking options for Kane.

Who knows though, as long as Hayden is willing to shoot, Kane could probably figure out a way to make it happen
 

piteus

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Ya, I don’t think Hayden alone solves the lack of playmaking options for Kane.

Who knows though, as long as Hayden is willing to shoot, Kane could probably figure out a way to make it happen
I remember Kane and Panarin had similar issues starting out. Neither wanted to shoot ... so Anisimov started hogging all the goals. Once Panarin figured out Kane, they were lethal.

With Schmaltz, he really just wants to pass. He can't snipe like Panarin. It hurts Schmaltz because Kane wants to hold the puck too. I'm not sure if Schmaltz in the appropriate center for Kane. Kane needs a power forward on one wing ... and a sniper on the other. That's why the Panarin - Anisimov - Kane line worked so well.

Can we try Kahun - Anisimov - Kane? Perhaps put Fortin - Schmaltz - Hayden on the third line? Then stick DeBrincat - Toews - Saad on the first? I know Toews likes to be in front of the net ... but he's so quick right now, he can play on the perimeter too. Perhaps it gets Saad going.
 

Kevin Musto

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I remember Kane and Panarin had similar issues starting out. Neither wanted to shoot ... so Anisimov started hogging all the goals. Once Panarin figured out Kane, they were lethal.

With Schmaltz, he really just wants to pass. He can't snipe like Panarin. It hurts Schmaltz because Kane wants to hold the puck too. I'm not sure if Schmaltz in the appropriate center for Kane. Kane needs a power forward on one wing ... and a sniper on the other. That's why the Panarin - Anisimov - Kane line worked so well.

Can we try Kahun - Anisimov - Kane? Perhaps put Fortin - Schmaltz - Hayden on the third line? Then stick DeBrincat - Toews - Saad on the first? I know Toews likes to be in front of the net ... but he's so quick right now, he can play on the perimeter too. Perhaps it gets Saad going.
DO NOT TOUCH THE FIRST LINE
 
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RememberTheRoar

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I remember Kane and Panarin had similar issues starting out. Neither wanted to shoot ... so Anisimov started hogging all the goals. Once Panarin figured out Kane, they were lethal.

With Schmaltz, he really just wants to pass. He can't snipe like Panarin. It hurts Schmaltz because Kane wants to hold the puck too. I'm not sure if Schmaltz in the appropriate center for Kane. Kane needs a power forward on one wing ... and a sniper on the other. That's why the Panarin - Anisimov - Kane line worked so well.

Can we try Kahun - Anisimov - Kane? Perhaps put Fortin - Schmaltz - Hayden on the third line? Then stick DeBrincat - Toews - Saad on the first? I know Toews likes to be in front of the net ... but he's so quick right now, he can play on the perimeter too. Perhaps it gets Saad going.

Exactly, Kane needs a power forward and a sniper to best compliment his game. Schmaltz is neither, and never will be.
 
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DisgruntledHawkFan

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DO NOT TOUCH THE FIRST LINE

This. Cat and Toews work. Kahun is a third wheel that works on that line. Leave them be.

Kane is fine as the primary goal scorer on a line. He’s not a shooter you can key on, because his shot is his third best asset. The Blues tried to shut out his shooting lane with three defenders and a goalie but he had the hands, hockey iq and skating ability to work around that. Keying on Kane’s shot is shutting down a good shooter with good speed and elite hands/vision. He’d score MORE if you tried to shut down his shot.
 

Hawkaholic

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Did anyone else notice the Hawks rush with 8 having the puck on the left side (with of course making it obvious he had no intention of shooting), Fortin driving to the net and getting open because of his speed and what does 8 do? He looks back for Kane and tries to force the pass through several sticks which fails with a whimper. This play reflects exactly why 8 and 88 need to be split up. I wonder if swapping 8 and 24 might be something for Q to try?
You pointed out one play, meanwhile they make several great plays throughout the game that not many other combinations would be able to do. Yes, Schmaltz needs to learn when to shoot it, and when to pass it to someone other than Kane.

People do realize this is still only Schmaltzs 2nd full season, right? He has a lot to learn, but for those who preach consistent lunematea, it seems odd to want to split up 2 of our more dynamic forwards that have pretty good chemistry together regardless of the couple of forced plays Schmaltz makes at times.
 
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RememberTheRoar

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You pointed out one play, meanwhile they make several great plays throughout the game that not many other combinations would be able to do. Yes, Schmaltz needs to learn when to shoot it, and when to pass it to someone other than Kane.

People do realize this is still only Schmaltzs 2nd full season, right? He has a lot to learn, but for those who preach consistent lunematea, it seems odd to want to split up 2 of our more dynamic forwards that have pretty good chemistry together regardless of the couple of forced plays Schmaltz makes at times.

It’s probably more reasonable to err on the side that Schmaltz won’t learn to shoot it as that’s not his game. As @AmericanDream said yesterday, he is who he is.

That’s not to say he still can’t improve his game in other ways, but I don’t think we should hold our breathe waiting for him to learn to shoot more.

That means the Hawks need to find a guy who will snipe and be a net front presence to fully compliment Kane. I don’t know how many of those guys exist in the league.
 

Hawkaholic

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It’s probably more reasonable to err on the side that Schmaltz won’t learn to shoot it as that’s not his game. As @AmericanDream said yesterday, he is who he is.

That’s not to say he still can’t improve his game in other ways, but I don’t think we should hold our breathe waiting for him to learn to shoot more.

That means the Hawks need to find a guy who will snipe and be a net front presence to fully compliment Kane. I don’t know how many of those guys exist in the league.
He is who he is at 22 years old and 144 NHL GP? Ok then.

He has already displayed more of a willingness to shoot this year, already. So maybe we shouldn't count our chickens yet?

And yes, Hawks do need a better 3rd wheel for that line. Fortin isn't it, and Saad doesn't appear to be it either. Maybe Hayden is it? Maybe an outside source is it?

Removing Schmaltz just creates a bigger hole, because now you are saddling another anchor to Kane.
 

AmericanDream

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He is who he is at 22 years old and 144 NHL GP? Ok then.

He has already displayed more of a willingness to shoot this year, already. So maybe we shouldn't count our chickens yet?

And yes, Hawks do need a better 3rd wheel for that line. Fortin isn't it, and Saad doesn't appear to be it either. Maybe Hayden is it? Maybe an outside source is it?

Removing Schmaltz just creates a bigger hole, because now you are saddling another anchor to Kane.

Schmaltz is only 22 years old, but unfortunately for the past 7 years coaches have been trying to get him to shoot more from tier-1 through college to the AHL and here, and that just hasn't happened. I have been defending him saying he is still young and people need to understand who he is and not overreact to how he plays...but if you haven't been following this kid like I have for years, you might be in for a bit of a disappointment if you think he is going to "get it" one day. It just isn't in his game or DNA to have a shooter mentality. And I disagree about him wanting to shoot more this year, he has like 6 shots on the season and outside of 1 game I really haven't seen him willingly make an effort to shoot more, though I hope he does since his shot is pretty legit.

Names like Joe Thornton, Craig Janney, Adam Oates (Oates did almost score 50 before) had massively successful careers being a player like this, it isn't the end of the world here. And to make sure everyone understands what "he is what he is" means, that is for right now, understand the type of player he is and have realistic expectations for him. People are going way too overboard with him right now, let him simply develop and find his groove.
 
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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
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He is who he is at 22 years old and 144 NHL GP? Ok then.

He has already displayed more of a willingness to shoot this year, already. So maybe we shouldn't count our chickens yet?

And yes, Hawks do need a better 3rd wheel for that line. Fortin isn't it, and Saad doesn't appear to be it either. Maybe Hayden is it? Maybe an outside source is it?

Removing Schmaltz just creates a bigger hole, because now you are saddling another anchor to Kane.

I agree it creates a hole, I don’t necessarily want him off the line. I think Kane finds a way to make it work with anybody he plays with, so he will find a way with Schmaltz too.

I’m just not sure if Schmaltz is the perfect fit for Kane as he’s neither a shooter nor power forward. His speed is nice, and it adds a new element for Kane, but Kane doesn’t really need someone who will always carry the puck as Kane dominates the puck.

Also, Schmaltz is shooting at a lower rate so far this year than he did last year. So I don’t know if he’s showing he’s more willing to shoot.
 
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Kevin Musto

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Someone like Ryan Dzingel might be good to try and bring onto the Kane line. Maybe Stan could get a trade going with the Sens.
 

BobbyJet

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The way I look at is Kane will keep producing no matter. If he plays with Kahun and/or AA he will still be productive. In fact Kahun's style may mesh quite nicely with 88. On the flip side Cat-Toews-Schmaltz line would be lethal. I can see Cat potting close to 50 goals if he managed to stay healthy. In other words, the team would be better.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
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That's me in the corner
The way I look at is Kane will keep producing no matter. If he plays with Kahun and/or AA he will still be productive. In fact Kahun's style may mesh quite nicely with 88. On the flip side Cat-Toews-Schmaltz line would be lethal. I can see Cat potting close to 50 goals if he managed to stay healthy. In other words, the team would be better.

Cat-Toews-Schmaltz would be absolutely filthy.

I have no problem loading the Toews line and making it our most dangerous and complete. It was something I bitched about all offseason.

Kane is capable of running a one-man show with third-liners, like you said, and can still put up first line production. That’s one of the great and rare things about Kane, he’s similar to Crosby in that way.

We won Cups by loading the Toews line, and letting Kane do his own thing while his linemates basically try not to get in his way.

And when the Toews line stopped working, lame would bump up and add a scoring punch.

The formula worked before.
 
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