Speculation: Game 48: Vegas Rusty Knights @ Buffalo Wings | 4:00PM | The Schedule speculates Vegas have a game.

[azvgk]

I don't think it's time to fire Turk, but I don't have much more before I start thinking that. This team is suffering from fixable problems that have existed since last year while the rest of the league gets faster and this team somehow is getting slower and has less endurance. I mean you could probably count the number of teams ours could still outspeed on one hand. And this is the biggest source of our defensive problems imo. We're never had a rock solid blueline corps. The team's defensive strength came from a 5 man group's ability to forecheck and backcheck while stifling offense with aggressive puck press that required high speed and endurance. We don't have that anymore so the defense has broken down.

The team is a roll of the dice on getting a shot on goal whether they're 25 feet away or 2, shooting drills are clearly failing. The team still has, admittedly, an improved passing game but still a problematic consistency in pass timing, selection, and execution. Clearly there continues to be problem with drills in respect to passing.

In terms of Turk's strategies it feels like his whole offensive zone game book is built for scenarios where the team has the lead because they are almost completely inert when trailing. Teams know that if they grab an early lead all they have to do is run a tight collapse with sticks on the ice and the fifth man doing aggressive puck press and the Knights just have no clue what to do with the puck. They'll either cycle around the boards until they lose it, try to force a pass through traffic in the slot resulting in turnover like 95% of the time, or pass it to the point where we only have like two guys who can get it through. Opposing defenses don't have to move from their defensive positions because the only Knight moving in the offensive zone is almost always the puck carrier. It's predictable and without the speed we had before, it's completely stoppable.

Of course it's not all Gallant's fault as there's more members of the coaching staff and on some level it's the players who need to give enough of a **** themselves. But he's the guy steering the ship and at some point you have to ask why the ship keeps sailing around in circles instead of going forward. In my opinion, the take that we're just not deep or talented enough is a ****ty cop out. We've seen what this team can do when the cylinders are firing. They just haven't been enough. And they won't start unless game preparation improves now. Trading for a defenseman will do **** all of Turk doesn't fix these fundamental problems.

Is that really what he said?

Agree that part of the problem is slow starts and then the other team just packs it in around the goalie, but we're one of the slower teams?? No way, Jose. Problem is except for Schmidt and Theodore, the defense is slow, leading to slow breakouts (once we're behind, the other team can park themselves between the blue lines, have a ham sandwich, and slow the game to a crawl). But even some of our big guys (Tuch, Carrier) are extremely good skaters (albeit with stone hands). Stevenson, Pacioretty, Karlsson, Smith, Marchy, Eakin (though awful) even Nosek are good skaters. Except for Pacioretty, though, none are natural scorers.

I'm not for panic moves, especially given our crap division. And I've watched Brannstrom a few times, don't really think he's big enough to be a first pair defenseman, jury still out. Wish we had Suzuki, but we have plenty of draft choices, a great fan base and city to attract free agents, so we'll be fine. Just don't be a "buyer" mortgaging the future, it's still bright.

 

[HanSolo]

Agree that part of the problem is slow starts and then the other team just packs it in around the goalie, but we're one of the slower teams?? No way, Jose. Problem is except for Schmidt and Theodore, the defense is slow, leading to slow breakouts (once we're behind, the other team can park themselves between the blue lines, have a ham sandwich, and slow the game to a crawl). But even some of our big guys (Tuch, Carrier) are extremely good skaters (albeit with stone hands). Stevenson, Pacioretty, Karlsson, Smith, Marchy, Eakin (though awful) even Nosek are good skaters. Except for Pacioretty, though, none are natural scorers.

I'm not for panic moves, especially given our crap division. And I've watched Brannstrom a few times, don't really think he's big enough to be a first pair defenseman, jury still out. Wish we had Suzuki, but we have plenty of draft choices, a great fan base and city to attract free agents, so we'll be fine. Just don't be a "buyer" mortgaging the future, it's still bright.

I think you're mistaking my criticism for team abandonment which isn't the case at all.

That being said though it's not that I think this team is built on slow skaters. But the roster as a whole does not outwork or outskate a majority of its opposition like they used to. There are at least ten teams this year that very clearly completely outworked and outskated us and most of the rest it was a wash, but certainly not a situation where the Knights dominated in terms of skating.

I don't think this team is incapable of being among the league's fastest like they used to be. I think for whatever reason the players have been handed personal responsibility for their own fitness benchmarks on training days, and it has resulted in the fitness decline we're seeing now. At the very least I hope you can see that the team doesn't have the 60+ minute endurance they used to. That's a problem. I mean we're seeing losses where the team doesn't come out in the first period giving more than 70% and even by the end of those games they look gassed.

It's not enough to say some individual forwards on their own are fast skaters. We need every unit moving their feet and hustling like it's a playoff game every time they hit the ice but they just don't. Not consistently enough. It's a problem that's affecting our defense and it's making our offense far too predictable.

 

[CupInSIX]

But who is going to coach this strategy?

Certainly not Gallant who seems unwilling to change anything.

And considering he apparently thought tonight was a good game, he probably won't change anything for the game on Thursday.

What is the definition of insanity again?

You're not only beating a dead horse, you're objectively wrong. The team changed its defensive zone system in late November and it wound up paying off.

 

[HanSolo]

But who is going to coach this strategy?

Certainly not Gallant who seems unwilling to change anything.

And considering he apparently thought tonight was a good game, he probably won't change anything for the game on Thursday.

What is the definition of insanity again?

Well my point is that there needs to come a point that a fire gets lit under Turk's ass. I believe he's capable of adaptation. I mean it was him and Sullivan that more or less changed the NHL following the inaugural season.

But he has to stop being so content with lots of shots on goals and chances. There's no chance a former player and long time coach doesn't understand quality>quantity. I mean the idea is that if you shoot the puck, pucks will eventually go in but two straight years of terrible shooting percentage begs to differ. You look at the base and advanced stats and you'd be baffled to see Vegas at the top of almost every offensive category except for goals and shooting percentage.

Like I said I'm not ready to give up on him but I'm losing my patience. And it never helps when I hear him say "we played a great game" after a loss. Do we have to hear it 25 more times before someone in the organization starts scratching their heads and thinking "hmmm. Maybe we're NOT playing great hockey"

Either way that fire under Turk's cheeks better start burning soon before it doesn't matter anymore. Same goes for the players.

 

[azvgk]

I think you're mistaking my criticism for team abandonment which isn't the case at all.

That being said though it's not that I think this team is built on slow skaters. But the roster as a whole does not outwork or outskate a majority of its opposition like they used to. There are at least ten teams this year that very clearly completely outworked and outskated us and most of the rest it was a wash, but certainly not a situation where the Knights dominated in terms of skating.

I don't think this team is incapable of being among the league's fastest like they used to be. I think for whatever reason the players have been handed personal responsibility for their own fitness benchmarks on training days, and it has resulted in the fitness decline we're seeing now. At the very least I hope you can see that the team doesn't have the 60+ minute endurance they used to. That's a problem. I mean we're seeing losses where the team doesn't come out in the first period giving more than 70% and even by the end of those games they look gassed.

It's not enough to say some individual forwards on their own are fast skaters. We need every unit moving their feet and hustling like it's a playoff game every time they hit the ice but they just don't. Not consistently enough. It's a problem that's affecting our defense and it's making our offense far too predictable.

It's very frustrating to see the lack of cohesiveness. I sit near the ice and watch the third line in particular, particularly Tuch and Eakin skating solo rings around the net, either not getting a shot or shooting into a mass of bodies. I do agree we don't constantly pressure other teams and cause tons of turnovers like we did the first year. It's hard to set get up some speed when the other team is able to set up a trap.

As to the fitness, I'm not close enough to the team to truly know the problem, you'd think that would improve as the season wears on, hopefully we're not toast by the time it happens.

 

[azvgk]

Well my point is that there needs to come a point that a fire gets lit under Turk's ass. I believe he's capable of adaptation. I mean it was him and Sullivan that more or less changed the NHL following the inaugural season.

But he has to stop being so content with lots of shots on goals and chances. There's no chance a former player and long time coach doesn't understand quality>quantity. I mean the idea is that if you shoot the puck, pucks will eventually go in but two straight years of terrible shooting percentage begs to differ. You look at the base and advanced stats and you'd be baffled to see Vegas at the top of almost every offensive category except for goals and shooting percentage.

Like I said I'm not ready to give up on him but I'm losing my patience. And it never helps when I hear him say "we played a great game" after a loss. Do we have to hear it 25 more times before someone in the organization starts scratching their heads and thinking "hmmm. Maybe we're NOT playing great hockey"

Either way that fire under Turk's cheeks better start burning soon before it doesn't matter anymore. Same goes for the players.

We don't know what he says behind closed doors, perhaps his inane comments are his way of protecting his players. But he needs to start sending messages by benching/demoting those who don't perform.

 

[Vegan Knight]

The low shooting percentage could even somewhat and Vegas could score goals in bunches at the end of the season but I don't think enough to help the defense. We could be a fun, high scoring team to watch and trade goals with teams but still win and lose about even and miss the playoffs.

The numbers should return to more normal levels by the end of the season. But then Fleury would need to play better and we would need to get a defenseman but I still don't see that as enough to contend, and if we aren't contending then I'd rather we try to put ourselves in a better position next season.

 

[azvgk]

The low shooting percentage could even somewhat and Vegas could score goals in bunches at the end of the season but I don't think enough to help the defense. We could be a fun, high scoring team to watch and trade goals with teams but still win and lose about even and miss the playoffs.

The numbers should return to more normal levels by the end of the season. But then Fleury would need to play better and we would need to get a defenseman but I still don't see that as enough to contend, and if we aren't contending then I'd rather we try to put ourselves in a better position next season.

Completely agree - I really thought this would be a transition year, the win streak December-early January fooled me a little. I think we'll be much better next year and the year after, though I worry a little about not having a lot of goaltending in the system. Don't want to be the Flyers. Subban isn't an NHL goalie, nor is Dansk, and Fleury isn't getting younger (I had hoped Spencer Knight would fall to us in the draft, but wasn't to be - we could get Georgiev from the Rangers but I see him a lot and I'm not sold on him).

 

[Vegan Knight]

Completely agree - I really thought this would be a transition year, the win streak December-early January fooled me a little. I think we'll be much better next year and the year after, though I worry a little about not having a lot of goaltending in the system. Don't want to be the Flyers. Subban isn't an NHL goalie, nor is Dansk, and Fleury isn't getting younger (I had hoped Spencer Knight would fall to us in the draft, but wasn't to be - we could get Georgiev from the Rangers but I see him a lot and I'm not sold on him).

If we make trades this season, I would prefer lower value trades with players who could stay with the team. Demelo for a 2nd, 3rd possibly a minor prospect. Georgiev for a 2nd from next season. Try to keep a pick in the first three rounds of the drafts.

Re-sign both to good, multi-year deals. Demelo could be signed for five or six years at a pretty low cap hit and I think would be great with Theodore, Georgiev would be less to prove what he can be.

 

[Vegas07]

The doom and gloom seems a little odd to me for a team in its 3rd season of existence.
Maybe getting to the Finals in year one wasn’t a good thing.

Why do the expectations of a team from 2017 matter right now?

I’ve seen forums with fans of teams that haven’t been to the Finals in a long time. I tend to see much more negativity from them. For example, a much higher percentage of fans push for the head coach to get fired (not saying if Gallant should be fired or not, just saying the comments about Gallant here are nowhere near as negative as what I’m used to seeing from other fans).

Sure, fans of other expansion teams are likely to be happy with mediocrity in year three, but that would be because the team is moving in the right direction. Our team has traded away multiple draft picks and promising young players that were taken in the first round in an effort to win now. Nobody trades their first round prospects so they can be happy with mediocrity whether it’s year 3 or year 50 of their existence.

 

[Vegas07]

The doom and gloom seems a little odd to me for a team in its 3rd season of existence.
Maybe getting to the Finals in year one wasn’t a good thing.

Also, we’re on a 4 game losing streak and playing some of our worst hockey of the season. If you read comments from fans of any team during a time like this, there is going to be a lot more frustration than usual. This is the most frustrated I’ve been with the team this season.

 

[hangman005]

I think aswell, the reason frustration is high, is it’s the same issues we identified last season. If these were all new problems with the old ones resolved it’d be different.

 

[GKG18]

Losing streaks happen. TBH, every time the Knights lose two, I wonder to myself "is this the one that is going to last a long time, backing them into a corner, making everyone question what it is they are doing?"
So here it is. They could win the next four and this is all forgotten (sort of), or it can continue, but somehow I think they will be in playoff contention all season, and that's all that matters.

 

[Super Cake]

To me, it is all about expectations.

If the Knights did not give away top assets for players like Patches and Stone and continued on with the plan of trying to build a cup contender, i probably wouldn't be as disappointed as i am now cause it would be all part of the plan. Just like i am not disappointed whenever the Sens lose because they are suppose to be bad and want a great draft pick.

But the Knights did trade top assets for those players. They officially changed the plan. So yes, i am disappointed with how the team is playing.

 

[CupInSIX]

That's like imagining highly respected coach Quenneville getting canned in Florida because they have Bob and Huberdeau and Barkov etc.

And then it actually happens.

They didn't listen.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Well my point is that there needs to come a point that a fire gets lit under Turk's ass. I believe he's capable of adaptation. I mean it was him and Sullivan that more or less changed the NHL following the inaugural season.

But he has to stop being so content with lots of shots on goals and chances. There's no chance a former player and long time coach doesn't understand quality>quantity. I mean the idea is that if you shoot the puck, pucks will eventually go in but two straight years of terrible shooting percentage begs to differ. You look at the base and advanced stats and you'd be baffled to see Vegas at the top of almost every offensive category except for goals and shooting percentage.

Like I said I'm not ready to give up on him but I'm losing my patience. And it never helps when I hear him say "we played a great game" after a loss. Do we have to hear it 25 more times before someone in the organization starts scratching their heads and thinking "hmmm. Maybe we're NOT playing great hockey"

Either way that fire under Turk's cheeks better start burning soon before it doesn't matter anymore. Same goes for the players.

I believe there is no longer a point at which a fire needs to get lit under Gallant.

 

[HanSolo]

I believe there is no longer a point at which a fire needs to get lit under Gallant.

Yeah, this sums up what I've been telling people IRL who've been asking me about this. I thought he needed a fire lit under his ass and start cracking down on his boys. I didn't think we were in a timeline for firing. I woke up to this news today completely stunned.

 

[hangman005]

Yeah, this sums up what I've been telling people IRL who've been asking me about this. I thought he needed a fire lit under his ass and start cracking down on his boys. I didn't think we were in a timeline for firing. I woke up to this news today completely stunned.

Oh yeah, I woke up looked on twitter.
SinBin: Gallant Fired to be replaced by Deboer.
Oh this is just a tweet to scare those who aren't 100% satisfied with the job Turk was doing.

Granger: Gallant Fired to be replaced by Deboer.

Ok guys it's not that funny.

Team Twitter: Gallant Fired Replace by Deboer.

WTF

 

[HanSolo]

Oh yeah, I woke up looked on twitter.
SinBin: Gallant Fired to be replaced by Deboer.
Oh this is just a tweet to scare those who aren't 100% satisfied with the job Turk was doing.

Granger: Gallant Fired to be replaced by Deboer.

Ok guys it's not that funny.

Team Twitter: Gallant Fired Replace by Deboer.

WTF

I'm just sitting there like uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no. This isn't real. I'm still dreaming.

 

[hangman005]

I'm just sitting there like uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no. This isn't real. I'm still dreaming.

Maybe we died and this is hell?

 

[HanSolo]

Maybe we died and this is hell?

I think we all died sometime after game 5 of the 2017 WCF. In reality the Golden Knights won the cup in their first year but we're in hell now.

 

[HanSolo]

Actually no, hell would be the Knights hiring Randy Carlyle.

 

[Vegas07]

Looks like the doom and gloom people were right after all but I had no idea Gallant was about to get fired.

 

[theslatcher]

Actually no, hell would be the Knights hiring Randy Carlyle.

DeBoer to hire Carlyle to replace Kelly.

 

[HanSolo]

DeBoer to hire Carlyle to replace Kelly.

RIP our team.