GDT: Game 47: Avs @ Sens | 5 PM MT | January 16, 2019 | Ottawa Rising

[AvsFan29]

Seems too logical to be true.

The Avs suck because they do not care about the games and are interested in something else like the upcoming summer golf tour. They coast all game long and the leaders of the team do not give a **** what happens. That sounds much more reasonable.

Are you joking?

 

[AvsFan29]

Yeah but still. Your lineup looked like s***.

Looks better than a garage sale.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Are you joking?

He obviously did.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I hate the notion that this season was meant to assess the young guys. What would we have learned that we didn’t know already? Jost wasn’t ready last year and didn’t show many signs of being able ready to take on the load as the 2C. Compher has never really projected as a true 2nd line guy. Kerfoot was the only guy that could have used another season to be assessed but even last year he never truly looked like a 2C. It was clear to anyone that the lineup needed to be added to and it’s ridiculous that it wasn’t addressed at all.

 

[henchman21]

I hate the notion that this season was meant to assess the young guys. What would we have learned that we didn’t know already? Jost wasn’t ready last year and didn’t show many signs of being able ready to take on the load as the 2C. Compher has never really projected as a true 2nd line guy. Kerfoot was the only guy that could have used another season to be assessed but even last year he never truly looked like a 2C. It was clear to anyone that the lineup needed to be added to and it’s ridiculous that it wasn’t addressed at all.

This... it would have been one thing if it was just a single question on the second line where all three were battling it out. But there were those three and three spots on the second line. To date, I think the only player out of the group to surpass expectation is Compher. More and more I'm seeing him as a 2nd line guy. Probably not at center, but a guy who can fill in with injuries and add some tenacity.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I hate the notion that this season was meant to assess the young guys. What would we have learned that we didn’t know already? Jost wasn’t ready last year and didn’t show many signs of being able ready to take on the load as the 2C. Compher has never really projected as a true 2nd line guy. Kerfoot was the only guy that could have used another season to be assessed but even last year he never truly looked like a 2C. It was clear to anyone that the lineup needed to be added to and it’s ridiculous that it wasn’t addressed at all.

Spot on. All of this.

 

[kl35ha]

I accepted that we're going to have slump during the season and thought it was going to be around like 10-12 games like we've been having for the longest time but this is just...if Bednar can't figure out something by the all-star break, I think is time for him to go. This is just unacceptable and a message is need to be send!

 

[kl35ha]

No clue why it double posted...sorry

 

[Iceberg]

I hate the notion that this season was meant to assess the young guys. What would we have learned that we didn’t know already? Jost wasn’t ready last year and didn’t show many signs of being able ready to take on the load as the 2C. Compher has never really projected as a true 2nd line guy. Kerfoot was the only guy that could have used another season to be assessed but even last year he never truly looked like a 2C. It was clear to anyone that the lineup needed to be added to and it’s ridiculous that it wasn’t addressed at all.

When you go back and look at the season ending press conference and a few interviews Sakic gave before the season, this is pretty much what this season was all about. The organization clearly had high hopes for Jost especially.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Where is @Sea Eagles when we need him? His sunshine and rainbows outlook would cheer us all up.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

No clue why it double posted...sorry

 

[The Abusement Park]

When you go back and look at the season ending press conference and a few interviews Sakic gave before the season, this is pretty much what this season was all about. The organization clearly had high hopes for Jost especially.

Well they set Jost up to fail 100%. Giving him the 2C role isn’t an issue, but to give him the 2C role with no one to insulate him and expect him to carry the load with is horrible horrible roster management.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I hate the notion that this season was meant to assess the young guys. What would we have learned that we didn’t know already? Jost wasn’t ready last year and didn’t show many signs of being able ready to take on the load as the 2C. Compher has never really projected as a true 2nd line guy. Kerfoot was the only guy that could have used another season to be assessed but even last year he never truly looked like a 2C. It was clear to anyone that the lineup needed to be added to and it’s ridiculous that it wasn’t addressed at all.

Your first sentence seems to be a response to my last post so I'll respond to yours.

By assessment year I didn't mean that it was going to be only that. Assessment was too strong of a word. I think he just wanted to see a bit more from the kids before making any big move. Of course Sakic wanted to improve on last year. And they did until the beginning of Dec when the goaltending went really bad. The PK also started to be terrible. The skaters certainly haven't been doing a good job on the PK but you know the saying...your goalie should be your best PK killer. I don't think it is a coincidence that the PK is that bad when the goaltending is also very bad 5v5.

I just think Sakic expected a bit more of a jump from these kids from last year to this one. I don't think he was asking a lot from them. It just didn't happen as much as they were expecting. Kamenev getting hurt didn't help as well. But regardless of how small that step was from those kids the lack of goaltending was still totally unexpected from everybody. Nobody saw that coming. We were well into the top 10 before that happened.

Like you said most of us (me included) knew secondary scoring was still going to be a problem this season but we were all expecting a bit better improvement from the kids. It just didn't happen.

 

[Avs425]

Did anything come of that disallowed goal last night? Was it the correct call or no?

 

[Bubba Thudd]

maybe

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

The Avs looked like a top team earlier in the season, they actually looked legit, maybe not true contenders, but solid playoff team, and it wasnt for only couple of games, for a while they actually looked good, regardless if they were still being carried by the 1st line, and suddenly they just look like the team from 2 years ago?

I agree that the team lacks talent up front outside the 1st line, but I dont think they're as bad as they're playing. You just cant have a sudden turn around like this even if the 1st line ran out of gas, even then the worst should happen is win one lose one not a slide like this

I think Avs are a good team, and they're definitely getting unlucky now especially with good recent metrics. But they also aren't a top team like they were earlier this season with their metrics and all.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Your first sentence seems to be a response to my last post so I'll respond to yours.

By assessment year I didn't mean that it was going to be only that. Assessment was too strong of a word. I think he just wanted to see a bit more from the kids before making any big move. Of course Sakic wanted to improve on last year. And they did until the beginning of Dec when the goaltending went really bad. The PK also started to be terrible. The skaters certainly haven't been doing a good job on the PK but you know the saying...your goalie should be your best PK killer. I don't think it is a coincidence that the PK is that bad when the goaltending is also very bad 5v5.

I just think Sakic expected a bit more of a jump from these kids from last year to this one. I don't think he was asking a lot from them. It just didn't happen as much as they were expecting. Kamenev getting hurt didn't help as well. But regardless of how small that step was from those kids the lack of goaltending was still totally unexpected from everybody. Nobody saw that coming. We were well into the top 10 before that happened.

Like you said most of us (me included) knew secondary scoring was still going to be a problem this season but we were all expecting a bit better improvement from the kids. It just didn't happen.

I just want to clarify that wasn’t me lashing out at you or anything. But seeing assessment made me think of the people over the summer saying we needed one more year to assess the roster. And I just can’t see much that we needed to assess this year. Top line breaking out like that meant it was time to surround them with talent.

I mean coming into this season we knew we had:
A killer top line.

0 2nd line players, and none who looked like the were ready to take on a 2nd line role

A good 3C in Soda

A solid 3rd liner in Wilson

Good 4th liners in Calvert and Nieto

A good young dman in Girard

A league average D core

And what was supposed to be one of the better goalie tandems in the league.

We had to bring in at least one top 6’er to play with Jost. Just make it that little bit easier on him, because he hadn’t shown that he was ready to take over as the 2C. And then when it’s clear that he can’t drive a line on his own then he gets yanked around the lineup which also doesn’t help his development. It’s just been a poorly managed season/offseason imo.

And we started the year well and it looked like Kerfoot might prove to be a legit 2nd line guy, but now he’s clearly fallen off and everyone else is having to play a role that they shouldn’t be except for the top line. And it’s unfair that they have to score 3/4 goals a game for us to win.

 

[Balthazar]

I think Avs are a good team, and they're definitely getting unlucky now especially with good recent metrics. But they also aren't a top team like they were earlier this season with their metrics and all.

Stop putting so much faith in metrics, that's how you ended up thinking Rantanen wasn't that good. The team has better metrics now because they are trailing all the time and trying to even the score. Team had bad metrics earlier because they were trying to protect the leads. Metrics lie, especially possession.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I hate rehashing age old conversations but for the sake of those with short term memories, there is little way to know how aggressively sakic went after help in the off-season. Just because no one impactful signed with the avs doesn’t mean management didn’t throw their line in the water

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I just want to clarify that wasn’t me lashing out at you or anything. But seeing assessment made me think of the people over the summer saying we needed one more year to assess the roster. And I just can’t see much that we needed to assess this year. Top line breaking out like that meant it was time to surround them with talent.

I mean coming into this season we knew we had:
A killer top line.

0 2nd line players, and none who looked like the were ready to take on a 2nd line role

A good 3C in Soda

A solid 3rd liner in Wilson

Good 4th liners in Calvert and Nieto

A good young dman in Girard

A league average D core

And what was supposed to be one of the better goalie tandems in the league.

We had to bring in at least one top 6’er to play with Jost. Just make it that little bit easier on him, because he hadn’t shown that he was ready to take over as the 2C. And then when it’s clear that he can’t drive a line on his own then he gets yanked around the lineup which also doesn’t help his development. It’s just been a poorly managed season/offseason imo.

And we started the year well and it looked like Kerfoot might prove to be a legit 2nd line guy, but now he’s clearly fallen off and everyone else is having to play a role that they shouldn’t be except for the top line. And it’s unfair that they have to score 3/4 goals a game for us to win.

No worries. I knew you weren't lashing out at me.

I do agree (especially in hindsight) that adding a 2nd liner to help Jost would have been a good move but remember that:
1. We don't know if Sakic did or didn't try to do just that.
2. The choices weren't that great to start with. Some of them were not even an option for Sakic. We don't even know if Skinner was willing to come here for the right $$$ and terms.
3. You might not have liked the contract necessary to bring one of those guys here.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Stop putting so much faith in metrics, that's how you ended up thinking Rantanen wasn't that good. The team has better metrics now because they are trailing all the time and trying to even the score. Team had bad metrics earlier because they were trying to protect the leads. Metrics lie, especially possession.

Mep I think Rantanen is great unlike some people who rely entirely on metrics, however I also feel that Rantanen is not the best player on the line despite point totals and he's not a top 3 RWer in the league either. Metrics have importance, it's not everything, and I agree 100% Avs are a better team than metrics show, but truly elite teams have excellent eye test and metrics, unless you're Washington who is just skilled beyond words (And even then they've always done poorly in playoffs until last season).

 

[Avs44]

Stop putting so much faith in metrics, that's how you ended up thinking Rantanen wasn't that good. The team has better metrics now because they are trailing all the time and trying to even the score. Team had bad metrics earlier because they were trying to protect the leads. Metrics lie, especially possession.

This isn't DominikBoltsFan or whatever his handle is. They're close, but not the same poster

 

[Balthazar]

This isn't DominikBoltsFan or whatever his handle is. They're close, but not the same poster

My bad...thought of the other guy.
Carry on, @DominikBokkFan ...

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Just for info since Dec 8th Gru has a SV% of .876 and Varly .866. They are 64th and 68th out of 72 goalies respectively during that period. The team is 4-11-3 since then. Hmmm!!! Wonder if there is a correlation?

BTW they were .923 SV% (Varly) and .909 (Gru) prior to that and the team was 17-7-5.

 

[hooverdam]

Just for info since Dec 8th Gru has a SV% of .876 and Varly .866. They are 64th and 68th out of 72 goalies respectively during that period. The team is 4-11-3 since then. Hmmm!!! Wonder if there is a correlation?

In that same timeframe, the Avs have been the 9th best CF% team at 5-on-5 in the league. Only 6 teams have given up fewer shot attempts than they have over that time period, again at 5-on-5.

Basically, during this slump, the Avs have been a) suppressing 5-on-5 shot attempts against b) generating 5-on-5 shot attempts for and c) have seen their goalie's SV% go into the toilet. They've been a very good 5-on-5 team outside of the net during this slump. They deserve a better fate.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

In that same timeframe, the Avs have been the 9th best CF% team at 5-on-5 in the league. Only 6 teams have given up fewer shot attempts than they have over that time period, again at 5-on-5.

Basically, during this slump, the Avs have been a) suppressing 5-on-5 shot attempts against b) generating 5-on-5 shot attempts for and c) have seen their goalie's SV% go into the toilet. They've been a very good 5-on-5 team outside of the net during this slump. They deserve a better fate.

Thx. These stats along with mine really prove our point that the goalies have been the main problem during that stretch and not the coach (not that I am saying he doesn't deserve any blame).