GDT: Game 44: Coyotes @ Oilers - 8 PM - FSAZ - Never Say Die

[Grimes]

What do we think a realistic ceiling for Garland is?

I could see Tyler Johnson type upside.

 

[rt]

What do we think a realistic ceiling for Garland is?

Petr Prucha, Marek Svatos, Mike Comrie hybrid.

 

[SniperHF]

Mike Comrie

Heh. I was just looking up something yesterday and noticed he went 30-30 for us one year. Didn't remember him playing that well here anyway.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

McDavid is not perfect, but pretty damn close, and you come up with a post like this.

I was 4 rows off the glass in the corner. The Oil fans around us felt the same: generational player needs to work in his own zone too.

Yea, I come up wit this because the Oul’s defensemen clearly need support from the forwards.

 

[AaronDellForPrez]

Coyotes' Garland chats about painful goal, and hockey badge of honour - Sportsnet.ca

Legend. My favorite player on the team.

Sharks fan here. Garland is now one of my fav non-sharks players.

 

[Name Nameless]

What do we think a realistic ceiling for Garland is?

"A player who makes people follow the Yotes, watch the games, and demands the papers write about them. ".

(Sorry. You probably wanted answers from other than me ) .

 

[cobra427]

Why does a player make it with one organization and not another?
It happens all the time.
We can speculate why Strome didn't make it here.
My theory is he's the type of player that needs to play with high end players because of his style. He sees the ice better then most players and doesn't create his own shot. Those types do better playing a lot with good players. You saw flashes of that here. If they would have stuck with him he could have made it here.....maybe. We'll never know. I always doubted his game translating here but he's doing well in Chicago and could probably get better. I looked at his ice time there and he's getting upwards of 20 minutes a game. Playing with Kane. And trust me it's not easy playing with a wizard like Kane. But props to Chicago, they recognize Strome's talents and are utilizing them well.
People like to say "look at what Garland is doing". Lets see if he's not a flash from the minors. He could be. He doesn't have Strome's pedigree.

Sample size is small for Strome in Chicago. No surprise that he or anyone else most likely, will have more points playing more minutes with Kane. Strome is starting to fade a little now, we'll see if it lasts. Once his production tails off a little, his line mates will change, his TOI will sink since the rest of his game is pretty bad. They tolerate it for now, but we'll see.

Garland is good all over the ice so even if his production tails off, and it will, he might still have an NHL job. Strome doesn't have that luxury.

 

[cobra427]

I was 4 rows off the glass in the corner. The Oil fans around us felt the same: generational player needs to work in his own zone too.

Yea, I come up wit this because the Oul’s defensemen clearly need support from the forwards.

I thought the same thing, no puck support, but I wasn't at the game to see the entire ice. Their D had a hard time making that exit pass, partly our pressure, partly their D is bad, and maybe bad puck support. That is kind of surprising given Hitch is the coach, you would think he would fix it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

What Garland had going for himself was his hockey IQ. What I didn’t expect was his work ethic and fearless style of play. He’s seized this opportunity and that’s something this fan base needed. He’s an easy player to cheer for.

Garland is also proving a theory I have endlessly posted here and on the BoH forum - in that the guys who become favorites and stars in Arizona are the guys like Garland, who bleed and battle for every moment of opportunity.

 

[kbay]

They did the EXACT same thing with Strome, except he wasn't given a chance in the NHL. Strome was patient, and was ahead of Garland in every aspect of the game. Most thought Garland would never make the NHL and his name was never talked about on these boards. Amazing what happens when you give a player a chance.

LET IT GO - LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!

 

[rt]

Heh. I was just looking up something yesterday and noticed he went 30-30 for us one year. Didn't remember him playing that well here anyway.

Best power forward we’ve had since Tkachuk. Bonafide net-front presence, despite being a tiny, fat little turd. Most poorly remembered player in franchise history.

 

[kbay]

 

[SniperHF]

Best power forward we’ve had since Tkachuk. Bonafide net-front presence, despite being a tiny, fat little turd. Most poorly remembered player in franchise history.

I always got the impression Gretzky didn't like him much and his minutes reflected that. He played 2nd line minutes at best and often less. If he were putting up those numbers today in non-premier minutes he'd be an advanced stats darling.

 

[rt]

I always got the impression Gretzky didn't like him much and his minutes reflected that. He played 2nd line minutes at best and often less. If he were putting up those numbers today in non-premier minutes he'd be an advanced stats darling.

He’s one of those guys who had his contributions degraded because people didn’t like his personality. He was seen as an entitled rich kid, and as a result is remembered as a soft, perimeter player. Nothing could be further from the truth. He crashed the net always and scored thirty goals on a pathetic team from sheer guts and in close skill. Almost nobody remembers it that way.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Garland is also proving a theory I have endlessly posted here and on the BoH forum - in that the guys who become favorites and stars in Arizona are the guys like Garland, who bleed and battle for every moment of opportunity.

If we had a 50 goal scorer that guy would be very popular too. Let's get one and see.

 

[SniperHF]

had his contributions degraded because people didn’t like his personality.

Pang always seemed to have it out for him too now that I think about it.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Who said I dislike your posts, quite the opposite, but your posts of Strome is over the top, for me anyways. You have no idea what Strome did or did not do in practice, or what he thought. Ask RT why Strome was always on the third and fourth lines, and while you are at it, ask RT why he put Weal as C on the first line without every playing a minute for the Yotes and received more minutes than Chucky who has been our best forward. Must be that Chucky is ineffective during practice and in understanding what he needs to work on, or maybe it's his attitude.

I was only stating that typically there is a reason behind why someone puts a player with a certain line. In the case of Galchenyuk, maybe he did not want to split up he, Panik, and Garland, especially considering that they had put up some points over the last few games and he didn't want to affect that chemistry. We don't really have a ton of C depth, so while I can appreciate what you are saying, we kind of defaulted to Weal, and the same premise that was put out there with Strome going to Chicago is that you want to see what a new player can do, and maybe part of that means putting him with some top talent to see how he keeps pace. Put the most trusted players with a new person so that you can be confident in covering up for any mistakes. I used that strategy a few times with some of my newer players before when I was coaching, b/c I didn't want multiple newer players on the field together to limit the possibility of mistakes compounding each other.

Why does a player make it with one organization and not another?
It happens all the time.
We can speculate why Strome didn't make it here.
My theory is he's the type of player that needs to play with high end players because of his style. He sees the ice better then most players and doesn't create his own shot. Those types do better playing a lot with good players. You saw flashes of that here. If they would have stuck with him he could have made it here.....maybe. We'll never know. I always doubted his game translating here but he's doing well in Chicago and could probably get better. I looked at his ice time there and he's getting upwards of 20 minutes a game. Playing with Kane. And trust me it's not easy playing with a wizard like Kane. But props to Chicago, they recognize Strome's talents and are utilizing them well.
People like to say "look at what Garland is doing". Lets see if he's not a flash from the minors. He could be. He doesn't have Strome's pedigree.

I can easily agree with the idea behind the player type that Strome is. I also think that a former 3rd OA pick isn't the type that you also should have to plan on surrounding with better players to get the most out of him. I know that it is a small sample, but there are some Chicago fans that are kind of seeing the exact same things that are being spoken of. He avoids contact and going into the corners, which is not going to allow you to survive in the league. Some are actually questioning his work ethic as a result (granted, it is the minority). I think we will likely find out in another 2-3 years where things wind up standing. We'll see if Strome winds up like his brother (50 points in 81 games in his 2nd season, followed by a few disappointing seasons after), or if he transcends that.

I truly feel that we made the proper decision in the long run, but it is frustrating to hear assumptions that we did not make the proper efforts to develop the player, when I doubt that we made the conscious decision to take a look at Strome and immediately swipe left without even looking at the profile and other pictures on the NHL version of Tinder (horrible analogy, but it was the best I could come up with).

 

[_Del_]

I thought the same thing, no puck support, but I wasn't at the game to see the entire ice. Their D had a hard time making that exit pass, partly our pressure, partly their D is bad, and maybe bad puck support. That is kind of surprising given Hitch is the coach, you would think he would fix it.

Third row seats at the UC must have a great view of Rexall Place

 

[Coyotedroppings]

LET IT GO - LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that the truth? Dudes let this creep into everything he believes and it's completely derailed his assessment of the team and franchise as a whole.
It's like he had a financial interest in him succeeding here.

 

[Jakey53]

LET IT GO - LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!

I was going to a long time ago and I get suckered back. My word, I will not talk about Strome and his time here. Over and out.

 

[Jakey53]

I was only stating that typically there is a reason behind why someone puts a player with a certain line. In the case of Galchenyuk, maybe he did not want to split up he, Panik, and Garland, especially considering that they had put up some points over the last few games and he didn't want to affect that chemistry. We don't really have a ton of C depth, so while I can appreciate what you are saying, we kind of defaulted to Weal, and the same premise that was put out there with Strome going to Chicago is that you want to see what a new player can do, and maybe part of that means putting him with some top talent to see how he keeps pace. Put the most trusted players with a new person so that you can be confident in covering up for any mistakes. I used that strategy a few times with some of my newer players before when I was coaching, b/c I didn't want multiple newer players on the field together to limit the possibility of mistakes compounding each other.



I can easily agree with the idea behind the player type that Strome is. I also think that a former 3rd OA pick isn't the type that you also should have to plan on surrounding with better players to get the most out of him. I know that it is a small sample, but there are some Chicago fans that are kind of seeing the exact same things that are being spoken of. He avoids contact and going into the corners, which is not going to allow you to survive in the league. Some are actually questioning his work ethic as a result (granted, it is the minority). I think we will likely find out in another 2-3 years where things wind up standing. We'll see if Strome winds up like his brother (50 points in 81 games in his 2nd season, followed by a few disappointing seasons after), or if he transcends that.

I truly feel that we made the proper decision in the long run, but it is frustrating to hear assumptions that we did not make the proper efforts to develop the player, when I doubt that we made the conscious decision to take a look at Strome and immediately swipe left without even looking at the profile and other pictures on the NHL version of Tinder (horrible analogy, but it was the best I could come up with).

Hey BUX, I was told to let it go. I declare a truce.

 

[azcanuck]

He would slowly skate from the opposite side high by the blue line towards a scrum like he didn’t want to even out the players to 3 on 3.

Exactly what you want the great player to do. Be available for a rush up the ice when the puck squirts loose.
you're starting to get it!

 

[azcanuck]

I was only stating that typically there is a reason behind why someone puts a player with a certain line. In the case of Galchenyuk, maybe he did not want to split up he, Panik, and Garland, especially considering that they had put up some points over the last few games and he didn't want to affect that chemistry. We don't really have a ton of C depth, so while I can appreciate what you are saying, we kind of defaulted to Weal, and the same premise that was put out there with Strome going to Chicago is that you want to see what a new player can do, and maybe part of that means putting him with some top talent to see how he keeps pace. Put the most trusted players with a new person so that you can be confident in covering up for any mistakes. I used that strategy a few times with some of my newer players before when I was coaching, b/c I didn't want multiple newer players on the field together to limit the possibility of mistakes compounding each other.



I can easily agree with the idea behind the player type that Strome is. I also think that a former 3rd OA pick isn't the type that you also should have to plan on surrounding with better players to get the most out of him. I know that it is a small sample, but there are some Chicago fans that are kind of seeing the exact same things that are being spoken of. He avoids contact and going into the corners, which is not going to allow you to survive in the league. Some are actually questioning his work ethic as a result (granted, it is the minority). I think we will likely find out in another 2-3 years where things wind up standing. We'll see if Strome winds up like his brother (50 points in 81 games in his 2nd season, followed by a few disappointing seasons after), or if he transcends that.

I truly feel that we made the proper decision in the long run, but it is frustrating to hear assumptions that we did not make the proper efforts to develop the player, when I doubt that we made the conscious decision to take a look at Strome and immediately swipe left without even looking at the profile and other pictures on the NHL version of Tinder (horrible analogy, but it was the best I could come up with).

Yea Strome didn't exactly break on the scene with a fury no doubt.
But he is the type of player that thrives with other better skilled guys simply because of the nature of his game which I've gone over.
He will not reach the elite in this league I'm sure of that.
And it's fair game to question the ability of the Coyotes to develop players, they have a poor track record.

 

[azcanuck]

Sample size is small for Strome in Chicago. No surprise that he or anyone else most likely, will have more points playing more minutes with Kane. Strome is starting to fade a little now, we'll see if it lasts. Once his production tails off a little, his line mates will change, his TOI will sink since the rest of his game is pretty bad. They tolerate it for now, but we'll see.

Garland is good all over the ice so even if his production tails off, and it will, he might still have an NHL job. Strome doesn't have that luxury.

I would say most NHL players could not play with Kane. It would frustrate him to much and bring down his game. He needs a guy who sees the game like he does and Strome is that type of player. That's his gift.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Hey BUX, I was told to let it go. I declare a truce.

Fair enough...