Post-Game Talk: GAME #40: Canucks def. Oilers - 4-2 (Motte, Boeser, Pettersson, Roussel)

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

No, they just have terrible management for more than a decade. If you have a McDavid who gets support from other talented guys like Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins you will keep on winning quite a few games as long as your goaltending holds up and your team puts up a solid defensive effort. Whenever that is not the case you will likely loose and in the long run got nowhere except the odd playoff appearance once in a while. Canucks are facing the same fate as long as Benning/Weisbrod are at the helm.

Do we have a goaltending crisis?,Do we have a revolving door of coaches?,Do we have a dysfunctional young group, with no veteran leadership? Are we going to be locked in a cap crisis with a top heavy salary structure?...not to mention getting absolutely fleeced in major trades Eberle,Hall,Reinhart...

Not even remotely the same situation here.. (you probably missed Mark Spectors interview after the 1st period when asked the question 'What can the Canucks learn from the Oilers rebuild?)

 

[Shareefruck]

You are being hyperbolic...
It wasn't all roses and sunshine for Brock last yr... especially defensively...
Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser were consistently hemmed in and struggled in our own zone..

Where Boeser's footspeed manifested itself was not getting to loose pucks in the defensive zone.. many shifts were extended in the dzone as a result...


The prime stark difference from Brock of last year to this year has been his ability to handle the puck... a lot more bobbles and hesitation in his play relative to last yr... that will work itself out.

Everything right now comes down to conditioning imo... He'll gain a half step, he'll be more relaxed, and he'll become more poised once he's fully back up to full speed and conditioning....
By the all-star break hopefully we have the old Brock back..
Give him some time... he's earned it.. and still producing despite how he looks right now.

I disagree. Boeser was stronger defensively and a stronger skater last year than I ever would have expected going into that season. Obviously he's not outright fast, but average or above average enough for it not to be a noticeable hindrance like it was for the Sedins throughout their career and like it was for Horvat in his first year. I felt it was actually Horvat who was the weak defensive link on that line creating most of the problems, personally. From my perspective, Boeser was solid and appeared wise beyond his years in his own end. He wasn't all sunshine and mistake-free, sure, but he was at or above-standard in just about every area that I can think of or that I was initially concerned with, IMO.

Also, it's possible and reasonable to criticize a player's level of play without condemning them outright. Boeser will eventually get better and the sky isn't falling yet. But he's still playing well below his standards to a degree that is worthy of acknowledgment and criticism as we wait for him to get better.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Except he wasn't and that's a terrible analysis

Lol you may wanna watch a few more games and less time on HF if you think BB6 is a good skater lol. It’s actually funny you think that. What’s next, Kyle Wellwood took a lot of penalties?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

GDT isn't up for tomorrow nights game yet, but looks like Baertschi and Stecher could draw in.(judging by practice lines today)...Gaudette,Biega sit.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Do we have a goaltending crisis?,Do we have a revolving door of coaches?,Do we have a dysfunctional young group, with no veteran leadership? Are we going to be locked in a cap crisis with a top heavy salary structure?...not to mention getting absolutely fleeced in major trades Eberle,Hall,Reinhart...

Not even remotely the same situation here.. (you probably missed Mark Spectors interview after the 1st period when asked the question 'What can the Canucks learn from the Oilers rebuild?)

You make some good points and some terrible ones. We are ahead of Edmonton, trajectory wise in my opinion. That being said if you break down your post

Are we cap crunched? No. And we shouldn’t be. We will be tho once we have to pay BB6 , EP40 and QH outside of their ELC. Good teams are usually cap crunched and rightfully so, if it’s spent on the right players. Low cap and great team don’t usually go together.

Do we have a dysfunction young group...: who knows. I hope not. But you cannot assume Edmonton’s group is more dysfunctional than ours. We don’t know who hangs out with who, who doesn’t like who, what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe a veteran player will come out in 5 years after retired saying our locker room was terrible etc. So you can’t really compare this.

We don’t have a goaltending crisis, neither does Edmonton. Konkin em is a good goalie, but had a bad night. It happens. Our goaltending is playing good now, but has had plenty of stinkers.

Their trades stink, I’ll give you that. Larson for Hall May be one of the worst in decades that I can remember. Our trades are better but our drafting has been busy as bad or worse than Edmonton. Juolevi / Virtanen / Gaunce / Hodgson were all drafted 100s of pucks ahead of where they should have been. Imagine even hitting 2 of the 4 above .... hard to screw up picks 5/6/10 overall.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

GDT isn't up for tomorrow nights game yet, but looks like Baertschi and Stecher could draw in.(judging by practice lines today)...Gaudette,Biega sit.

Good fill in stint for AB55. Serviceable minutes for a guy that has a ton of effort and little skill.

AG88..... had his cup of coffee in the NHL. He has 2 goals in 36 games.... maybe a Brendan Gaunce v2.0. Don’t mind this as he was a 5th round pick. Is what it is.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I disagree. Boeser was stronger defensively and a stronger skater last year than I ever would have expected going into that season. Obviously he's not outright fast, but average or above average enough for it not to be a noticeable hindrance like it was for the Sedins throughout their career and like it was for Horvat in his first year. I felt it was actually Horvat who was the weak defensive link on that line creating most of the problems, personally. From my perspective, Boeser was solid and appeared wise beyond his years in his own end. He wasn't all sunshine and mistake-free, sure, but he was at or above-standard in just about every area that I can think of or that I was initially concerned with, IMO.

Also, it's possible and reasonable to criticize a player's level of play without condemning them outright. Boeser will eventually get better and the sky isn't falling yet. But he's still playing well below his standards to a degree that is worthy of acknowledgment and criticism as we wait for him to get better.

You lost me when you said BB6 is “above average” in skating. Throws out any credibility to your other points.

 

[VanJack]

Any love for Motte these days? Non-stop motor who's starting to create chances galore. Now up to six goals. Solid for a bottom of the lineup player.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

AG88..... had his cup of coffee in the NHL. He has 2 goals in 36 games.... maybe a Brendan Gaunce v2.0.

or...maybe he is just now starting to figure out his game at the NHL level? Just a thought......players need more than 36 games to prove themselves unless they are named McDavid, Matthews or Pettersson.

AG88 is also playing 4th line minutes...it took both Burrows and Kesler a few YEARS before they became offensive threats.

 

[Shareefruck]

You lost me when you said BB6 is “above average” in skating. Throws out any credibility to your other points.

Last year, he got around about as well as the Sedins did when they were physically at a level where they no longer struggled with the speed of the game (before it dropped off again anyways). Whether you want to call that average or above average is fine by me, but it certainly wasn't slow.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

or...maybe he is just now starting to figure out his game at the NHL level? Just a thought......players need more than 36 games to prove themselves unless they are named McDavid, Matthews or Pettersson.

AG88 is also playing 4th line minutes...it took both Burrows and Kesler a few YEARS before they became offensive threats.

Gaudette has looked pretty sharp to me, making good plays and being responsible in his own end. I remember when rookies were only expected to keep up the best they can, now the expectation is for immediate impact.

 

[Regal]

Lol you may wanna watch a few more games and less time on HF if you think BB6 is a good skater lol. It’s actually funny you think that. What’s next, Kyle Wellwood took a lot of penalties?

I don't actually know how anyone could watch Boeser last year and not see an effective skater. He wasn't a great skater but he got where he needed to be, was fairly elusive and backchecked hard when needed. His skating is considerably worse this year

 

[kanuck87]

You make some good points and some terrible ones. We are ahead of Edmonton, trajectory wise in my opinion. That being said if you break down your post

Are we cap crunched? No. And we shouldn’t be. We will be tho once we have to pay BB6 , EP40 and QH outside of their ELC. Good teams are usually cap crunched and rightfully so, if it’s spent on the right players. Low cap and great team don’t usually go together.

Do we have a dysfunction young group...: who knows. I hope not. But you cannot assume Edmonton’s group is more dysfunctional than ours. We don’t know who hangs out with who, who doesn’t like who, what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe a veteran player will come out in 5 years after retired saying our locker room was terrible etc. So you can’t really compare this.

We don’t have a goaltending crisis, neither does Edmonton. Konkin em is a good goalie, but had a bad night. It happens. Our goaltending is playing good now, but has had plenty of stinkers.

Their trades stink, I’ll give you that. Larson for Hall May be one of the worst in decades that I can remember. Our trades are better but our drafting has been busy as bad or worse than Edmonton. Juolevi / Virtanen / Gaunce / Hodgson were all drafted 100s of pucks ahead of where they should have been. Imagine even hitting 2 of the 4 above .... hard to screw up picks 5/6/10 overall.

Lol, maybe you should see all the high picks Oilers have recently screwed up on. Puljujarvi (4), Nurse (7), Yakupov (1), Pajaarvi (10), Gagner (6). You can even include RNH in that list. He's been pretty underwhelming for a #1 overall pick.

 

[DL44]

Last year, he got around about as well as the Sedins did when they were physically at a level where they no longer struggled with the speed of the game (before it dropped off again anyways). Whether you want to call that average or above average is fine by me, but it certainly wasn't slow.

He's most definitely a below average NHL skater.
That doesn't mean he's not a good enough skater to be in the NHL... since by definition half the players in the NHL are below average NHL skaters.

 

[Shareefruck]

I don't actually know how anyone could watch Boeser last year and not see an effective skater. He wasn't a great skater but he got where he needed to be, was fairly elusive and backchecked hard when needed. His skating is considerably worse this year

Exactly.

He's most definitely a below average NHL skater.
That doesn't mean he's not a good enough skater to be in the NHL... since by definition half the players in the NHL are below average NHL skaters.

I disagree. By definition, half the skaters in the league struggle to keep up with the pace of the game. Last year, Boeser didn't, regardless of the rest of his skillset.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You make some good points and some terrible ones. We are ahead of Edmonton, trajectory wise in my opinion. That being said if you break down your post

Are we cap crunched? No. And we shouldn’t be. We will be tho once we have to pay BB6 , EP40 and QH outside of their ELC. Good teams are usually cap crunched and rightfully so, if it’s spent on the right players. Low cap and great team don’t usually go together.

Do we have a dysfunction young group...: who knows. I hope not. But you cannot assume Edmonton’s group is more dysfunctional than ours. We don’t know who hangs out with who, who doesn’t like who, what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe a veteran player will come out in 5 years after retired saying our locker room was terrible etc. So you can’t really compare this.

We don’t have a goaltending crisis, neither does Edmonton. Konkin em is a good goalie, but had a bad night. It happens. Our goaltending is playing good now, but has had plenty of stinkers.

Their trades stink, I’ll give you that. Larson for Hall May be one of the worst in decades that I can remember. Our trades are better but our drafting has been busy as bad or worse than Edmonton. Juolevi / Virtanen / Gaunce / Hodgson were all drafted 100s of pucks ahead of where they should have been. Imagine even hitting 2 of the 4 above .... hard to screw up picks 5/6/10 overall.

I was more referring to the dysfunctional group pre 2016..

Isn't it a bit early to saying the the Oilers goaltending problems are solved..?..Koskinen put up a fairly good run of play recently, but was horrendous pre season, ...and 19 NHL games is a very small sample size to even say that he has made the show...Plus,didnt the Oilers resign Talbot (3 x $4.17M).

 

[DL44]

I disagree. By definition, half the skaters in the league struggle to keep up with the pace of the game. Last year, Boeser didn't, regardless of the rest of his skillset.

Agree to disagree.
End of the day.. he needs his step back.. like it looked like it was vs Col before he left the roster.

edit: and that would NOT be the definition of below average skater... that's your interpretation of below average skater... i.e. the Sedins were always below average skaters - but they did not struggle with the pace of the game overall.

 

[Shareefruck]

Agree to disagree.
End of the day.. he needs his step back.. like it looked like it was vs Col before he left the roster.

edit: and that would NOT be the definition of below average skater... that's your interpretation of below average skater... i.e. the Sedins were always below average skaters - but they did not struggle with the pace of the game overall.

Heh, usually when you say "agree to disagree", that's where it ends-- you don't just keep disputing the point afterwards.

By definition (or to be more accurate, by basic reasoning), if you're slower than half of the players in the league, you're going to struggle to keep up with the average pace that the game is played at, relative to the degree that you're slower than the baseline. The Sedins began as well below average, legitimately slow skaters who couldn't keep up physically and somewhat made up for it with passing and hockey sense, but obsessively worked on it and improved their conditioning until they were average to above average skaters in their physical prime. This only lasted for a brief window of time and they never became outright fast players, but when they were PPG players who killed penalties and dominated 4-on-4s, they had average to above average speed somewhat comparable to someone like prime Bertuzzi. Boeser played at a similar speed last year.

The most I can meet you half-way is that admittedly Boeser was occasionally caught flat-footed last season, but from what I could see, it didn't seem to be due to actual skating ability, but rather the wait-and-see-Brett-Hull mentality he had built into him.

 

[DL44]

Heh, usually when you say "agree to disagree", that's where it ends-- you don't just keep disputing the point afterwards.

By definition (or to be more accurate, by basic reasoning), if you're slower than half of the players in the league, you're going to struggle to keep up with the average pace that the game is played at, relative to the degree that you're slower than the baseline. The Sedins began as well below average, legitimately slow skaters who couldn't keep up physically and somewhat made up for it with passing and hockey sense, but obsessively worked on it and improved their conditioning until they were average to above average skaters in their physical prime. This only lasted for a brief window of time and they never became outright fast players, but when they were PPG players who killed penalties and dominated 4-on-4s, they had average to above average speed somewhat comparable to someone like prime Bertuzzi. Boeser played at a similar speed last year.

Quick excercise:
12 canuck forwards played last night... who were the 5 best, 5 worst, and the two approximately in middle?
The 5 worst skaters last may not struggle... but they are by definition below team average...
so who ya got?

 

[Shareefruck]

Quick excercise:
12 canuck forwards played last night... who were the 5 best, 5 worst, and the two approximately in middle?
The 5 worst skaters last may not struggle... but they are by definition below team average...
so who ya got?

I actually haven't watched a Canuck game recently, so I couldn't tell you. But I would consider the five worst skaters as struggling, most likely. Obviously they struggle to a lesser degree the closer they get to the mean.

 

[Hit the post]

Lol, maybe you should see all the high picks Oilers have recently screwed up on. Puljujarvi (4), Nurse (7), Yakupov (1), Pajaarvi (10), Gagner (6). You can even include RNH in that list. He's been pretty underwhelming for a #1 overall pick.

You do sometimes need an element of luck in drafting.

 

[DL44]

I actually haven't watched a Canuck game recently, so I couldn't tell you. But I would consider the five worst skaters as struggling, most likely.

Pick any canuck roster of any game last yr during Brock's rookie season and give 5-2-5 breakdown...

It will probably take a lil gymnastics to get him up there... but may be possible.



i.e. Boeser's final game:
Virtanen, Motte, Sutter, Horvat,
Leipsic/Gagner/Goldy
Boeser, Jokinen, Sedin, Sedin, Archibald

Having the Sedins and Archibald helps his placing on the curve.. heh

 

[Shareefruck]

Pick any canuck roster of any game last yr during Brock's rookie season and give 5-2-5 breakdown...

It will probably take a lil gymnastics to get him up there... but may be possible.

Not giving the full breakdown, looking at last night's lineup, I can say that these were probably the five slowest skaters on the team, based on when I've last seen them play at the NHL level, in no particular order:

Gudbranson
Leivo
Boeser
Eriksson
Gaudette

All five of these guys consistently struggle to keep up with the pace of the game, and the Boeser of last season was significantly faster than each of them.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Lol, maybe you should see all the high picks Oilers have recently screwed up on. Puljujarvi (4), Nurse (7), Yakupov (1), Pajaarvi (10), Gagner (6). You can even include RNH in that list. He's been pretty underwhelming for a #1 overall pick.

Nurse and RNH are great players. Not sure now that helps your argument. Gagner was over a decade ago and was an NHL regular up until this year. Can’t argue with the other ones you mentioned but the point was , our misses are just as bad or worse.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I don't actually know how anyone could watch Boeser last year and not see an effective skater. He wasn't a great skater but he got where he needed to be, was fairly elusive and backchecked hard when needed. His skating is considerably worse this year

Nah. He went from bad skater to worse skater.