GDT: Game 4: Coyotes @ Avalanche: Still Too Soon to Tell; Saturday 7 PM MST (or 9am Sunday GMT+8)

Which former Av will have a bigger impact?


  • Total voters
    59

GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,046
9,677
Was just listening to Bednars post game from last night... Man that dude has such an incredibly smart hockey mind.



Also like hearing him call Girard a top pairing guy. Basically saying how he's developed into this Dman that can do everything from moving the puck well to skating well to defending different areas of the ice the right way and limiting his mistakes on a nightly basis. Calling him a top pairing guy now and one that we're just gonna start using as a top pairing guy because that's what he is.


I know Sam had a couple bad turnovers early tonight but he really has looked extremely good this year, like probably the most improved player on this team by far from last year. If he keeps this consistent play up I really do think its fair to call him a top pairing guy and that's huge for us to have Sam be a #1/2 quality guy already when we still have Makar, Byram, and Timmins developing along as well. We're gonna have a fabulous defense in a couple years.

I think we have a fabulous defense today.
 

lowol

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
267
186
On a side note, people make fun of Ottawa for the Duchene trade or whatever, but Nashville got hosed horribly. At least Ottawa recouped some of the assets when they dealt Duchene to CBJ. Nashville basically traded Girard and Kamenev for a broken down Kyle Turris!

If you think about it Nashville has traded

Seth Jones
Shea Weber/PK Subban
Sam Girard

For

Ryan Johanson
Kyle Turris
2- 2nd round picks

Yikes. I might be missing some guys but it's something like that.

That's a disingenuous analysis, though. There was a tad of a bias towards performing in the short term with all of these trades. They lost in the finals in 2017 and got ousted in 7 games by a great Jets team in 2018, with all of the acquired players being strong contributors.

Still, agreed that the three/four trades haven't really delivered the goods longer term... can't believe how weak Turris was last season, and I think the return on Subban was just bad even accounting for the Preds need to free cap space for Duchene.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,152
31,163
I don't understand why this Kerfoot convo is getting you so riled up. I think Kadri will settle in but to start the season he hasn't been very good. He's gotten nearly 60% offensive zone starts and the play has been dying on his stick pretty consistently. There also seems to be a lack of effort in general.

Aside from the Bruins game, I think Kadri's had a very high work ethic. Really strong efforts to back check and separate the man from the puck, especially during a few scrambly moments. Drives hard to the net and battles well.

The issue the first few games though was Kadri's still getting used to Bednar's skating system, and there was a lack of chemistry on that 2nd line. Which honestly should have been expected since they never played together before.

The other issue I think is that all three of Naz, Jost, and Bura like to have the puck on their stick, and now it's basically just Naz and Bura making the plays, while Donskoi skates hard and forechecks. You have to have chemistry like the Avs top line, or Tanguay-Forsberg/Sakic-Hejduk, to get a trio of guys who like to handle the puck to work effectively.

I think the extra puck time has helped both Naz and Bura feel more comfortable playing their game.
 
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Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
84,521
32,105
  • Our 4th line with Calvert and Bellmare is absolute money - they are going to dominate a lot of bottom defense pairs in the league.

On paper they're great but their numbers tell a completely different story. After four games, they're the ones getting dominated. Possession numbers are among the worst in the league and Bellemare is barely winning 40% of his faceoffs. Bednar might need to revisit how he uses them if this continues.
 

Pokecheque

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On paper they're great but their numbers tell a completely different story. After four games, they're the ones getting dominated. Possession numbers are among the worst in the league and Bellemare is barely winning 40% of his faceoffs. Bednar might need to revisit how he uses them if this continues.

Most 4th lines get dominated, so I'm not worried. But I'd like Bellemare to win more faceoffs, that's part of the reason he was brought aboard.
 

Hornstar

Registered User
Feb 3, 2018
1,742
1,283
On a side note, people make fun of Ottawa for the Duchene trade or whatever, but Nashville got hosed horribly. At least Ottawa recouped some of the assets when they dealt Duchene to CBJ. Nashville basically traded Girard and Kamenev for a broken down Kyle Turris!

If you think about it Nashville has traded

Seth Jones
Shea Weber/PK Subban
Sam Girard

For

Ryan Johanson
Kyle Turris
2- 2nd round picks

Yikes. I might be missing some guys but it's something like that.
Johanson is a beast. If take him over Girard. But yeah I agree with your post
 

AvsMakar08

Registered User
Feb 14, 2017
7,226
3,601
New York
Cale is okay and Byram can be just as good as him?

So both guys will be okay players?

That's a super exciting analysis.

Yea, Makar is only Ok just about now, he has not proven himself just yet.

Byram to me just looked better and more confident during his draft year. We drafted the top Dman in this years draft, we should be excited.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Landy, mack, rant
makar girard

That was hard af

Um, who in that group is playing Kadri's position? Girard?

On paper they're great but their numbers tell a completely different story. After four games, they're the ones getting dominated. Possession numbers are among the worst in the league and Bellemare is barely winning 40% of his faceoffs. Bednar might need to revisit how he uses them if this continues.

By possession numbers, what you actually mean is shot differential. Yes, they're not getting a lot of shots, but that's not their role. If they control the puck down low and hem the other team in for an entire shift, that's a great shift for them (whether they got a shot out of it or not).

And I'm not talking about on paper. I'm talking about what I've seen with my own eyes for the first four games. And as for the faceoff numbers, Bellemare has been above 50% the last two seasons. I'm assuming his numbers will get better. In fact, I'm assuming they'll get better overall, since this is a whole new line and it will take time to really figure each other out and get some real chemistry.
 

ThatAvsGamer

Registered User
Feb 21, 2013
1,762
185
Ontario
Um, who in that group is playing Kadri's position? Girard?



By possession numbers, what you actually mean is shot differential. Yes, they're not getting a lot of shots, but that's not their role. If they control the puck down low and hem the other team in for an entire shift, that's a great shift for them (whether they got a shot out of it or not).

And I'm not talking about on paper. I'm talking about what I've seen with my own eyes for the first four games. And as for the faceoff numbers, Bellemare has been above 50% the last two seasons. I'm assuming his numbers will get better. In fact, I'm assuming they'll get better overall, since this is a whole new line and it will take time to really figure each other out and get some real chemistry.
Have Mack take draws on the right side and Landy on the left. It worked last year and we had one of the better PP's in the league. You're acting like we didn't run this lineup just a few months ago with Barrie instead of Makar...

Use those 5 players, their roles weren't set in stone when I chose Girard over Kadri. It was just a replacement. You can move the players around... Kadri's been trash on the PP. 1 point in 4 games.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Have Mack take draws on the right side and Landy on the left. It worked last year and we had one of the better PP's in the league. You're acting like we didn't run this lineup just a few months ago with Barrie instead of Makar...

Use those 5 players, their roles weren't set in stone when I chose Girard over Kadri. It was just a replacement. You can move the players around... Kadri's been trash on the PP. 1 point in 4 games.

I wasn't referring to draws. I was referring to who will play the "bumper" position if you replace Kadri with Girard.

Also, holy jump to conclusions Batman. Kadri's only been on the team for 4 games. Calling him "trash" is jumping the gun completely, and it's not even true. And even if he had been playing poorly (he hasn't), Kadri is not even expected to be a point a game player, so one in four isn't actually a horrible rate of production.
 
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ThatAvsGamer

Registered User
Feb 21, 2013
1,762
185
Ontario
I wasn't referring to draws. I was referring to who will play the "bumper" position if you replace Kadri with Girard.

Also, holy jump to conclusions Batman. Kadri's only been on the team for 4 games. Calling him "trash" is jumping the gun completely, and it's not even true. And even if he had been playing poorly (he hasn't), Kadri is not even expected to be a point a game player, so one in four isn't actually a horrible rate of production.
Landeskog. Literally he did it last year and was amazing at it. Kadri, not so much. 4 games is a lot, could be a series. If he's playing 1st line pp minutes he's expected to produce. 1 point in 4 games is trash.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
i'm done playing this. who did last year? There's your answer.

Uh... last year it was Landeskog playing Landeskog's position in front of the net. Kadri's position was filled by several players at different points, including Jost, Compher, Wilson, and I think even Calvert.

And I'm not playing anything. I'm genuinely confused as to how you think a MacKinnon/Makar/Landeskog/Rantanen/Girard powerplay would be set up.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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i'm done playing this. who did last year? There's your answer. I said it three times. Why fix something that isn't broken.


That's a rather ironic statement to make.


Our PP is operating at 27% efficiency right now. Top 10 in the league and if it kept that pace all season it would be easily Top 5.


So, why change something that isn't broken?
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Landeskog. Literally he did it last year and was amazing at it. Kadri, not so much. 4 games is a lot, could be a series. If he's playing 1st line pp minutes he's expected to produce. 1 point in 4 games is trash.

Replying to the last part since you edited it.

1 point in 4 games when a guy has been with the team all season and has produced at a rate of more than 1 in 4 - that's maybe trash.
1 point in 4 games when a guy is in a new city on a new team with a new coach with a new system with new teammates - that's not bad.

I'm honestly starting to think you have some sort of anti-Kadri bias for some reason. Are you mad we lost Barrie to get him? Or Kerfoot? Are you a Leafs fan who is mad at him for getting suspended against Boston twice?

Edit: yeah looking back you said you didn't even watch the last game. Seriously dude, calling a player trash when you haven't even watched him play? Are you trolling or something?
 
Last edited:

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Yikes. Hjalmarsson is a huge player for them. That really hurts their playoff chances in my opinion.
 

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