GDT: Game 38: Sabres vs Blues - 12/27 8pm ET (MSG-B, WGR 550)

[sabremike]

Wait, what? Not having Skinner is not hurting the Canes? But not having ROR is hurting us? I’m so confused.

In this case I am ignoring what was given up (which obviously in both cases was totally lopsided and hurt both teams with the only difference being Skinner was going to leave Raleigh the second the season ended). I am focusing on the returns, and the point is that negative value is worse than nothing.

 

[Beerz]

Trading 1st round picks ISN'T A HOCKEY TRADE.

Great you trade your 1RW, to fill a hole. You fill that hole, and now you have a giant hole at 1RW. Hockey trade is from a position of strength to fill a weakness.

Do people around here even think, or have they all gone Housley'd

You make the rules or something? Why cant I trade a 1st round pick to improve my team ? .. I dont care if it's a "hockey trade" by your definition or not...honestly..who cares?

If a Nylander or someone can come up and produce on Jack's wing at a decent rate and we are able to turn Reinhart into some 2nd line scoring I consider that a win ...

But you first have to get off yours hands and call some kids up to find out.

Or maybe you find out you dont really need to make a trade like that.

 

[sabrebuild]

These games just remind me he is a kid. Its easy to forget.

I’m all for noting when he is crap, because it’s super interesting to see how guys develop and fix issues.

But this kid is a true freak. I think Eichel is a top notch player of this new generation of star players. And he is very clearly a cool player under pressure with his eyes up. He has always been exceptionally confident, particularly for an 18 year old rookie. Very impressive.

Dahlin is spooky. His confidence to carry the puck with no support, loose puck dekes using body to block stick checks and create space.... He is a boy physically. You can just tell his mind knows the right plays and the lack of execution is frequently just a step of physical development away.

And he still is a top 20 scorer for defensemen in the league... He has no credible shot, yet, and he still gets great looks all the time and takes nice heads up shots with no power behind them. And he still plays decent defense while giving up 20 lbs to most of the league. With his build he will be overpowering. So many things that just need a couple summers to fix.

I don’t want to jinx it, but Dahlin has the ability to be the best player in the world. For years. Dahlin tied Hedman’s rookie season, in 37 games. Hedman didn’t have a pace like this until he was 22. Karlsson didn’t until his draft plus 3 year and sucked defensively. I think Dahlin pots 20 and gets 60+ points next year. I haven’t felt better about a prospects pure “game” since Crosby. McDavid is amazing, but a big part of superiority is from pure speed and stick handling, rather than two way compete and attention to detail everywhere.

I’m gonna take a cold shower now.

 

[EichHart]

We might have 3 picks between 10-20 this year.

 

[sabremike]

Trading 1st round picks ISN'T A HOCKEY TRADE.

Great you trade your 1RW, to fill a hole. You fill that hole, and now you have a giant hole at 1RW. Hockey trade is from a position of strength to fill a weakness.

Do people around here even think, or have they all gone Housley'd

I totally agree about not doing trades. Call guys up whose play has clearly merited it. Why give up assets to get guys, use the assets we have.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

You make the rules or something? Why cant I trade a 1st round pick to improve my team ? .. I dont care if it's a "hockey trade" by your definition or not...honestly..who cares?

If a Nylander or someone can come up and produce on Jack's wing at a decent rate and we are able to turn Reinhart into some 2nd line scoring I consider that a win ...

But you first have to get off yours hands and call some kids up to find out.

Or maybe you find out you dont really need to make a trade like that.

Words do have meanings, i'm sorry if that isn't to your liking. You -can- trade a 1st to Murray your team. You shouldn't it's incredibly short sighted.

Also there's a problem of who would you target, very few teams are going to trade a 2nd line winger half way through the season for a future pick. They can't just pull the chute like that, there would be a revolt.

The only plausible path for the Sabres to get better is to either swap a D for F, or bring up someone from Rochester

 

[Beerz]

I’m all for noting when he is crap, because it’s super interesting to see how guys develop and fix issues.

But this kid is a true freak. I think Eichel is a top notch player of this new generation of star players. And he is very clearly a cool player under pressure with his eyes up. He has always been exceptionally confident, particularly for an 18 year old rookie. Very impressive.

Dahlin is spooky. His confidence to carry the puck with no support, loose puck dekes using body to block stick checks and create space.... He is a boy physically. You can just tell his mind knows the right plays and the lack of execution is frequently just a step of physical development away.

And he still is a top 20 scorer for defensemen in the league... He has no credible shot, yet, and he still gets great looks all the time and takes nice heads up shots with no power behind them. And he still plays decent defense while giving up 20 lbs to most of the league. With his build he will be overpowering. So many things that just need a couple summers to fix.

I don’t want to jinx it, but Dahlin has the ability to be the best player in the world. For years. Dahlin tied Hedman’s rookie season, in 37 games. Hedman didn’t have a pace like this until he was 22. Karlsson didn’t until his draft plus 3 year and sucked defensively. I think Dahlin pots 20 and gets 60+ points next year. I haven’t felt better about a prospects pure “game” since Crosby. McDavid is amazing, but a big part of superiority is from pure speed and stick handling, rather than two way compete and attention to detail everywhere.

I’m gonna take a cold shower now.

I'm not convinced Dahlin is going to be a big goal scorer.... 20 is a lot for a dman... his shot is going to have to significantly improve.

 

[Beerz]

Words do have meanings, i'm sorry if that isn't to your liking. You -can- trade a 1st to Murray your team. You shouldn't it's incredibly short sighted.

Also there's a problem of who would you target, very few teams are going to trade a 2nd line winger half way through the season for a future pick. They can't just pull the chute like that, there would be a revolt.

The only plausible path for the Sabres to get better is to either swap a D for F, or bring up someone from Rochester

Murray your team.. nice.

The Kane deal didnt hamper anything.. it wound up being bad because Bogo was constantly hurt and Kane wasnt enough to offset our other glaring needs.

What did we lose of significance? We are still a pathetic team for years to come if that trade never happened. I can think of 2 other Murray trades that were more detrimental

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Murray your team.. nice.

The Kane deal didnt hamper anything.. it wound up being bad because Bogo was constantly hurt and Kane wasnt enough to offset our other glaring needs.

What did we lose of significance? We are still a pathetic team for years to come if that trade never happened. I can think of 2 other Murray trades that were more detrimental

Those trades were attempts to cash in picks for assets now. Fantastically poor ideas.

 

[Beerz]

Those trades were attempts to cash in picks for assets now. Fantastically poor ideas.

I dont agree. There was nothing wrong with the attempts. The execution was poor ... he targeted the wrong players based on his love for those players during their draft years.

 

[sabrebuild]

I'm not convinced Dahlin is going to be a big goal scorer.... 20 is a lot for a dman... his shot is going to have to significantly improve.

The big goal year might be two out. It’s hard to say with young guys how quickly they build mass and strength. But he has already gotten enough chances with a little more power and confidence to have 5 more goals this year. And he hardly shoots on the pp, his shot is a noodle, he will pick up another 3-5 minutes of ice time a game over the next year or two. He gets in the rush so well already and is only going to get more opportunities. Sky’s the limit.

 

[Sabre the Win]

We just keep going around in circles trading positions of strengths for weaknesses only for that position of strength to become a weakness. Then we can complain how we need more trades. People need to open their eyes and see the depth at forwards is not there and the depth at defense is one away from having Tennyson playing.

 

[toomuchsauce]

I'm not convinced Dahlin is going to be a big goal scorer.... 20 is a lot for a dman... his shot is going to have to significantly improve.

Ehhhh...for a player like Dahlin, he's not scoring goals because he's blasting it through the goalie. He's scoring goals by getting shots through traffic and picking his spots to join the play in the offensive zone. Also, considering he's 18, his shot *will* improve. It may never be a "weapon," but he's the type of player who doesn't need it to be. If Sam Reinhart can score 20 goals, Dahlin can, too. Of course, Dahlin is a defenseman, so I wouldn't suggest he's a "perennial 20 goal scorer." I just think he can, and will, do it more than once, as Karlsson has. I mean, Hedman scored 17 last year.

 

[toomuchsauce]

We just keep going around in circles trading positions of strengths for weaknesses only for that position of strength to become a weakness. Then we can complain how we need more trades. People need to open their eyes and see the depth at forwards is not there and the depth at defense is one away from having Tennyson playing.

MOAR TRADEZ

 

[DJN21]

This board is so strange. The likes of Armia and Roslovic make us no closer to a cup appearance yet taking a chance at one of the best LW in the game is somehow considered bad..

Everyone wants to win but they want to do it with an AHL born perennial contender that doesn't ACTUALLY exist.

yes we can be patient, but we can also make trades without being worried about the big bad ghost of tim murray.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

a large part of it is. We need to stop coddling goalies and call them out when they get outplayed by a significant margin, like Hutton has been tonight.

Which goalie played better tonight? Hutton or Allen?

Goaltending was not the the real problem here. The Sabres were lethargic and as dull as the knives in my kitchen (i.e.; not sharp, not ready to play). They were not willing to pay the price to win this. They are did not run traffic in front of Allen. They could not recover loose pucks in their own zone for the life of them. St Louis out worked them. St Louis out hustled them. St. Louis out skilled them.

The current set of problems on this team were on full display. Mainly, they are not physical, they do not handle a tight checking game well, their puck protection is abysmal, they have too many players not willing to put out the necessary effort. They wanted an easy win via a wide open skating contest. St Louis would not oblige.

There are so many fundamentals that the Sabres are not executing at this point. Even our top line is deficient in our own zone. Heck, our defensemen are deficient in our own zone.

Dahlin's decision making is terrible at this point. His pinch at the blue on ROR's goal was take a seat at the end of the bench worthy. Is anyone holding him accountable?

KO is a fat waddling whale on the beach. Is he being held accountable? Reinhart was completely disengaged. Elie, Mittlestadt, Thompson, Pilut - yes even Pilut are NOT NHL ready. Scandella has regressed terribly this season from last. The rust on McCabe's skates could fill an oil tanker's hold. Are any of these players being held accountable?

Hutton was fighting the puck AND fighting his own team with their inability to control play in their own zone. He was left to rely mainly on his athleticism when it came to net minding tonight given how the Blues outworked and out possessed the Sabres in their own zone.

Hutton is hardly being coddled here. The reality is that Hutton was forced to move around, back and forth like a man possessed in order to follow the path of the puck in his own zone. When you are having to be overly mobile like that, you are gradually going to lose precision of movement. That's what happened to Hutton.

I agree that Ullmark might have been better suited tonight because his size covers more net and can just stay square to the puck.

Hutton was not ready for ROR's charge and played that situation wrong. But I saw it more as Dahlin's gift than ROR's revenge. The game was over long before that happened. The game was over when I tuned in during the 2nd half of the 1st period and made my first comment that the Blues were overloading the Sabres in their own zone. It really never got consistently better for Buffalo.

 

[dortt]

Goaltending was not the the real problem here. The Sabres were lethargic and as dull as the knives in my kitchen (i.e.; not sharp, not ready to play). They were not willing to pay the price to win this. They are did not run traffic in front of Allen. They could not recover loose pucks in their own zone for the life of them. St Louis out worked them. St Louis out hustled them. St. Louis out skilled them.

The current set of problems on this team were on full display. Mainly, they are not physical, they do not handle a tight checking game well, their puck protection is abysmal, they have too many players not willing to put out the necessary effort. They wanted an easy win via a wide open skating contest. St Louis would not oblige.

There are so many fundamentals that the Sabres are not executing at this point. Even our top line is deficient in our own zone. Heck, our defensemen are deficient in our own zone.

Dahlin's decision making is terrible at this point. His pinch at the blue on ROR's goal was take a seat at the end of the bench worthy. Is anyone holding him accountable?

KO is a fat waddling whale on the beach. Is he being held accountable? Reinhart was completely disengaged. Elie, Mittlestadt, Thompson, Pilut - yes even Pilut are NOT NHL ready. Scandella has regressed terribly this season from last. The rust on McCabe's skates could fill an oil tanker's hold. Are any of these players being held accountable?

Hutton was fighting the puck AND fighting his own team with their inability to control play in their own zone. He was left to rely mainly on his athleticism when it came to net minding tonight given how the Blues outworked and out possessed the Sabres in their own zone.

Hutton is hardly being coddled here. The reality is that Hutton was forced to move around, back and forth like a man possessed in order to follow the path of the puck in his own zone. When you are having to be overly mobile like that, you are gradually going to lose precision of movement. That's what happened to Hutton.

I agree that Ullmark might have been better suited tonight because his size covers more net and can just stay square to the puck.

Hutton was not ready for ROR's charge and played that situation wrong. But I saw it more as Dahlin's gift than ROR's revenge. The game was over long before that happened. The game was over when I tuned in during the 2nd half of the 1st period and made my first comment that the Blues were overloading the Sabres in their own zone. It really never got consistently better for Buffalo.

Your argument is greatly weakened when you start saying things like Pilut is not NHL ready

 

[26CornerBlitz]

O'Reilly scores to help Blues defeat Sabres

FINAL: Sabres 1 - Blues 4

Buffalo falls to St. Louis in the first game back from the holiday break.

LEXUS POSTGAME REPORT

From the Locker Room: Sabres-Blues

The Sabres fell to the Blues 4-1 on Thursday night in St. Louis. Jack Eichel scored the lone goal in the second period on the power play and Carter Hutton stopped 28 of 32 shots faced.

The Blues' second and third goals came just 54 seconds apart midway through the second period, putting the Sabres in a 3-0 hole. Eichel's goal made the score 3-1 but that was as close as Buffalo would get to a comeback.

Former Sabre Ryan O'Reilly scored the Blues' fourth goal of the game to seal the win.
Let's go inside the Sabres locker room to hear from Eichel, Hutton, Marco Scandella and head coach Phil Housley following the Sabres' loss to St. Louis:

 

[SabresFan26]

This board is so strange. The likes of Armia and Roslovic make us no closer to a cup appearance yet taking a chance at one of the best LW in the game is somehow considered bad..

Everyone wants to win but they want to do it with an AHL born perennial contender that doesn't ACTUALLY exist.

yes we can be patient, but we can also make trades without being worried about the big bad ghost of tim murray.

Yes you can take chances on trades but Evander Kane was not a top talent, he was a major locker room issue that his entire team hated him and distraction that we brought into our young locker room. He had multiple alleged issues off the ice in Buffalo and Murray sold the farm for him asset wise where Botterill got a much better player in Skinner for way less, who fits our core.

So yes you can take chances but they need to be educated.

 

[OkimLom]

a large part of it is. We need to stop coddling goalies and call them out when they get outplayed by a significant margin, like Hutton has been tonight.

Which goalie played better tonight? Hutton or Allen?

You might need to give the qualifier of which goaltender played better tonight based on the quality of chances they were given. Seeing as the quality of chances Allen had all night vs the chances Hutton had all night, I would say Allen had the easier night, and played to that level that he needed to. Hutton had the toughest night, but on a few occasions was not up to the that level that the Sabres needed him to be.

Allen for sure had the easier night to be considered "good", but Hutton had zero support in terms of suppressing the tougher chances and was called upon more frequently to try and make the save. He didn't "cost" us the game, but there was plenty of room for improvement in his game today.

Buffalo forwards/defenseman did themselves no favors with not producing tougher scoring chances on Allen. As much Hutton didn't bail us out, like he's been tasked to all year, our ability to produce high danger scoring chances falls completely on the Sabres in front of him and IMO should be the focus of the blame of why we lost the game.

It does worry me that this has been about the 3rd or 4th game in a row that Hutton has looked "shaky" or not up to his usual standards with his play in the crease.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Your argument is greatly weakened when you start saying things like Pilut is not NHL ready

Hardly. I like Pilut. But he's only 5'11" - 180 ish and is having problems handling the physicality. Perron owned him on the 2nd goal of the game. Unfortunately, he's 22 and not likely to grow into his body anymore.

He needs more strength training and has to improve his quickness and escapability. Otherwise he's an injury away from being an NHL short timer.........

 

[OkimLom]

Hardly. I like Pilut. But he's only 5'11" - 180 ish and is having problems handling the physicality. Perron owned him on the 2nd goal of the game. Unfortunately, he's 22 and not likely to grow into his body anymore.

He needs more strength training and has to improve his quickness and escapability. Otherwise he's an injury away from being an NHL short timer.........

I think it depends on what one considers what is required to being NHL ready. There are those that look at players and see how a player is physically ready (as you have said). Others might look at one player being mentally ready for the NHL game by how quickly their decision making is at certain levels. I also think people have different standards of where they want the players to be to be considered NHL ready.

I respectfully disagree with the idea that Pilut is not NHL ready. I think he has shown of being capable of withstanding the physical game, but I do think there's room for improvement. He's far from being a finished product but he has shown that he can handle the physical game at the NHL level. He's also shown he can process the game at a high level. I also think his escapability is fine where it's at especially with his professional experience. I have watched Guys who have been in the league for seasons, get trucked, get outmuscled, and show similar instances as Pilut has. All your points of him needing improvement in strength, quickness, and escpability are valid, but point me to a young player who doesn't need to work on that stuff.

Being "NHL ready" doesn't necessarily mean a finished product.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think it depends on what one considers what is required to being NHL ready. There are those that look at players and see how a player is physically ready (as you have said). Others might look at one player being mentally ready for the NHL game by how quickly their decision making is at certain levels. I also think people have different standards of where they want the players to be to be considered NHL ready.

I respectfully disagree with the idea that Pilut is not NHL ready. I think he has shown of being capable of withstanding the physical game, but I do think there's room for improvement. He's far from being a finished product but he has shown that he can handle the physical game at the NHL level. He's also shown he can process the game at a high level. I also think his escapability is fine where it's at especially with his professional experience. I have watched Guys who have been in the league for seasons, get trucked, get outmuscled, and show similar instances as Pilut has. All your points of him needing improvement in strength, quickness, and escpability are valid, but point me to a young player who doesn't need to work on that stuff.

Being "NHL ready" doesn't necessarily mean a finished product.

Agree with a lot of this.

He is ten games in at most?

He shows heads up play all the time. Avoids big hits without opting for a blind dump most of the time.

In the ozone he is only behind Dahlin for raw skill, ahead of Risto. He looks so out of place on that pp2, because it’s clear the other guys can’t think as fast as he can distribute into their wheelhouse.

He created a chance for Erod to go back door two more times after erods first shot of several, with space to take a stride or two to draw attention and instead took crappy wristers.

Everyone will have rough nights. But last night was all about our 9 useless “depth” forwards.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

This was one of the sloppiest played games all season. The structure was off. It was like they were skating on dull blades. Completely unacceptable to let that quitter get that win.

 

[Fearnot]

Scandella has been playing a tired, sloppy game a long time now. Once he gets tired he just stops moving and takes a stupid penalty and flails over the ice. One of the worst shots in accuracy and can't pass well either.